Why would anyone on this forum be a democrat??

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Dude, 9/11 took almost 10 fucking years to plan (according to our intelligence).

More dubious logic .. Clinton was in office for most of these 10 years too.

Bad things happen people, we just need to get other countries to hate us less. No government run agency will make us bomb proof ... regardless of which party the president represents.
 


To Beerhats avatar: Beasty Boys Rocks Your Socks. I was in high school during Herbert Bush and it was the same bullshit.

Its really not the money that's fuckin up our school system, its the policy. When I was in school I was afraid of not only getting the hell beat outa my ass my my 250 pound principle but also my 350 pound father that was a power lifter.

I stayed on the straight and narrow because I knew that was what was expected of me. I knew that if I fucked up..that I would have consequences.

Today the kids dont give a fuck. Their parent dont give a fuck. They were raised on playstation and cable TV. The government can't fix the problem. It can only be fixed by the parents.

Agreed that parents often don't give a fuck, and kids today get away with a lot more than when I was younger. But then kids are also growing up quicker. I'm 30 in a couple of months and my friend's 10 year old is a hell of a lot more mature than I was at 10, and it was the same with my parents generation who seemed to be seen as children up to their late teens.

The parents aren't entirely to blame for whatever the kids do, most of them are just average sheeple, happily soaking in what they are fed without even thinking about it and passing it on to their offspring. The same shit gets passed from generation to generation, I bet more sheeple parents think, "it didn't do me any harm..." than try to learn from their parents' mistakes.

I'm not sure about in The States, but here politicians and the media love to demonise young people, who are often hanging around in public places cos there's just fuck all for kids to do a lot of the time. I used to work at a youth centre that got closed down due to lack of cash, that's fairly typical.
A local skate park always seems to be fighting to stay open and my friend does some great work with kids excluded from school for behaviour problems, she's had books published on it and really does make a difference, yet they are always fighting for funding. Parents do need to take responsibility for their kids, but they need to be educated themselves, Governments and the media need to take their share of the blame and do something about it, more money isn't the complete answer but it's part of it, but then I doubt they really want all the sheep to start thinking.

Schools should focus more on teaching children to think for themselves, rather than just how to pass exams. One good thing that might come out of the Iraq fiasco is the thousands of schoolchildren that got involved in making their voices heard and thinking about shit that affects them.

Beating ya kids or even the threat of violence isn't the answer at all, shit loads of research has found that rewarding good behaviour will always be more effective than the threat of punishment for bad behaviour. (What motivates you? The rewards success brings, or the fear of failure?)

I (fortunately for now) don't have kids, but I would think these days removing the XBox or PC would be more effective than threatening to beat them when you both know you wouldn't do it, or if you did people would be asking questions.

You also get kids growing up confusing fear with respect. An adult demanding a child respects them through fear and intimidation is a great way to either lose the child's respect very quickly or for the average unthinking sheeple, fuck them up so they never distinguish between the two and pass it on to their kids and so on and so on.

Sorry for the fuckin long post... :sleep::love-smiley-085:(No offence to the thoughtful non-sheeple parents here!)
 
More dubious logic .. Clinton was in office for most of these 10 years too.

Its funny how when you disprove a conservative, they scream "BUT BUT BUT CLINTON!"

Your response is missing the point. The fact of the matter is, one of the first successful terrorist attacks in our nation's history took 10 years to plan.

To say we haven't been attacked yet and credit it to Bush is ridiculous. Actually, its quite stupid. Not only has Bush made us more hated in the middle east, but unless your an idiot, here is how the logic of terrorism works:

increasing hatred for us = more likely people will attack us

Republicans have made us anything BUT safe.
 
I'm so sick of politics :sleep:*yaaaawwwwnnnnn*:sleep: Point is , if you are drinking the koolaid from either party you're an idiot. Now, if you do want to vote for a decent democrat then vote Mccain. I'm outta this thread, this shit can take up so much of your time it's not even funny.

Bush isn't Satan and Obama is not the Messiah.
 
Obama has stated that anyone that makes over 100k will recieve a massive tax increase. How can any successfull IM support this?? That is unless you are a poser/wannabe.

Any successful business person will vote for anyone agaisnt the party of entitelment.
SAY NO TO TAKING YOUR MONEY AND GIVING IT TO THOSE THAT DON'T WANT TO WORK!!!!!

Your taxes are (what the government thinks is) your fair share to finance the whole system. If the system doesnt work, the odds are you would not be making 100k+. Paying 20% instead of 30% (or whatever the numbers are) on taxes wont matter that much if the whole country (along with your business) is falling apart. So the real question is, do you like the direction in which your country is heading now? (cause from what i heard, doesnt seem that mccain wants to change anything too much)
 
It too bad we can't choose what our tax money goes towards. I certainly wouldn't mind paying 30% then. (yes I know it's not practical)
 
Turbo
Do you mean paying 30%+ isn't practical ? Some people in the US used to pay 50%+ and stuff still worked OK - anything less than 100% tax has "worked" somewhere. Or did you mean choosing what our money goes for isn't practical? We have this internet thingy that makes a lot of formerly impractical / impossible stuff practical and necessary. However, the fact that you and I might not want to give {the Pentagon, the Welfare program, the OSHA, the EPA, the Legislative branch, Insert name of agency here} the full amount it has in mind, doesn't mean it is impractical, just that the government doesn't want us making the decisions.
 
Turbo
Do you mean paying 30%+ isn't practical ? Some people in the US used to pay 50%+ and stuff still worked OK - anything less than 100% tax has "worked" somewhere. Or did you mean choosing what our money goes for isn't practical? We have this internet thingy that makes a lot of formerly impractical / impossible stuff practical and necessary. However, the fact that you and I might not want to give {the Pentagon, the Welfare program, the OSHA, the EPA, the Legislative branch, Insert name of agency here} the full amount it has in mind, doesn't mean it is impractical, just that the government doesn't want us making the decisions.

Here's one example

I'd rather see my tax money only go to support families who are responsible. I don't want to buy food stamps and govt services for the idiots out there who buy shit instead of food when they are being supported by govt programs.

Case in point - I worked at a grocery store for 3 years in high school, I saw it every day. Food stamps person/family comes into line with a couple of items of food, uses the food stamps, then buys $100 worth of shit like DVDs and toys. People like this are either a) irresponsible idiots, or b) gaming the system, and either way I do not want to support them, but we all do.
 
I can’t recall who said, the American “people get the government they deserve” but more accurate words were never spoken.

We, as Americans, DO decide how our taxes will be spent. We ALL elect a Congress to represent our wishes in such matters. Where the American people have been remiss in their individual duty is in continuing to elect, and re-elect, those who do NOT represent our wishes. When this happens, it proves to the politician that he or she can DO whatever he or she wishes with no consequences.

The Congress, not the President, controls the purse strings of our government. If we are to ever regain control of our government, we must become more adapt at monitoring Congressional actions and vote for a new representative when necessary.
 
Here's one example

I'd rather see my tax money only go to support families who are responsible. I don't want to buy food stamps and govt services for the idiots out there who buy shit instead of food when they are being supported by govt programs.

Case in point - I worked at a grocery store for 3 years in high school, I saw it every day. Food stamps person/family comes into line with a couple of items of food, uses the food stamps, then buys $100 worth of shit like DVDs and toys. People like this are either a) irresponsible idiots, or b) gaming the system, and either way I do not want to support them, but we all do.

I hear you, but for every family like that there's another one struggling and trying to pull itself out of the gutter. I have seen both kinds, and far, far too many of the latter.

The fact that we are able to use the internet to debate this at all is a perfect example of a privilege that most poorer people don't have, and it's just one of the numerous ways that the class you're born into makes it harder to find and keep a job.

What the conservatives have done within the past decade is make it pointless to claim bankruptcy in many cases because most families now have to pay off all of the debt their creditors heaped on them with usurous interest rates (2005, I believe), spent billions on a fucking useless and racist war (because all arabs are apparently terrorists, even if they hate each other), voted down a bill that would have allowed women a decent shot at discovering and challenging pay discrimination (this past week), lowered air quality standards so that the polluters 30 miles away exacerbate our health problems...I could go on.

If I wanted to, I could use my medical condition to go on welfare, but I'd rather work. As a consequence, I pay nearly $6K a year in health care costs, health care that should be a right of every American citizen like it is of every Canadian citizen, and every British citizen, and every French citizen, etc. ad nauseam. Single-payer systems aren't perfect, but they're much, much better for everyone than the bastard HMOs, where the employees are paid to DENY benefits. It's the most fucked up thing ever. By 2050, health care costs will take up 37% of our gross domestic product.

But don't worry; at the rate we cut benefits and give out tax breaks, our economy will be in the gutter long before that happens.

To summarize:
I'd rather just help everyone and beat up the frauds when I catch them.
 
This is a hot topic. I used to be a Democrat, but now I am an Independent/Republican. Back in my Democratic days, I was always thinking about what this country could do for me. How much money would this country give up and how could I ease by without too much work. I remember being a big Bill Clinton fan. Especially when he showed up on Arsenio Hall. To this day he is still referred to as the 1st black President! . I believed that those that have should give to the have-nots. The have-nots are just as deserving and should be given a hand up into the upper echelon of society.
Another factor that contributed to my party designation was my family. All I would here is how Democrats will help "our" people. They are going to (once again) give us something that would benefit us.
Another factor is the media. Big network companies that control the news and radio are pushing for their candidate whether deliberately or sub-consciously. Back in 2004; my home state newspaper ran a cover of Kerry and Bush. Kerry's picture showed he was on the go, motivated, and high spirited. The picture was very nicely done. Then they showed Bush in a solemn mood, disheveled, and woeful. Fast forward again to Katrina and you recieve comments from Kanye West stating that "Bush don't like black people." And as we come to current events. The Iraq war has taken a toll on the American people. Political candidates have made a case to end the war. Not many people understand why we are in Iraq today. The death toll climbs and politicians use this news as reasons to vote Democrat. The other is Health care which is an enormous burden on every American. A "free" health care system sounds good. Those are a couple of reasons that a WF member may vote Democrat.
 
Politicians are ruining the country, period. (well, the United States at least...)

We need a REAL change. Not a change between democrats and republicans who, when you get down to it, hardly differ from their ideas & beliefs. The 2 party system in the US is fucking everything up. There is no debate of value today. Can we please have some old school, Lincoln-Douglass style debates? Screw the media, screw the pundits. Lets get some quality & fair debate going in this country. Something is wrong and no one has a real answer. Maybe we should be questioning what we have been doing in the last century. Maybe we have gone seriously astray to what America is.

Obviously, I consider myself a Ron Paul Republican (as do many of you I'm sure). I don't think you should all necessarily support Ron Paul, but if you looked into his movement you may have you eyes opened and be able to start independently thinking for yourselves. Sometimes we must question the very basics of our government to find a solution.
 
Obviously, I consider myself a Ron Paul Republican (as do many of you I'm sure). I don't think you should all necessarily support Ron Paul, but if you looked into his movement you may have you eyes opened and be able to start independently thinking for yourselves. Sometimes we must question the very basics of our government to find a solution.

Agree! I think everyone in the country should watch a few Ron Paul vids on youtube.

Even if you don't agree with everything he says (he goes a bit to far towards towards total government hands off (I like things like meat inspectors, food regulations)) it would be a big eye opener for most people who have never experienced a government that was following the constitution.

Hell maybe even with the food inspectors the food producers would pay for the inspections and pass it on to us - lower taxes would make that cool with me. I guess the point is we don't need government doing everything for us.... and giving our money and wealth away to everyone else.

I suppose (hope) I'm not the only one who gets mad every time I see we gave country xyz 1 billion here, and a billion there. It's like WORLD WELFARE.

Should read this:

» U.S. Government –> We’ve come so far! Independent 08: The Politics The Presidential 2008 Campaign The Reality Show
 
Then, if money is the only thing important to you, buy shares in Halliburton and vote for McCain.

if you knew anything about mcain you would have respect for him, hes definaely not a george bush part 2. He spent 5 years in a VC prison camp, so hes not gonna take war lightly. An he doesnt wanna shit all of our money away just because he can. We're pretty close to a recession right now, and im sure taxes being raised on people who start up and run businesses isnt going to help the economy.
Socially he's in the middle too, not religious, doesnt hate gays.
Hes exactly what i would vote for.
But, i dont think obama can be stopped, hes got too much charisma. And everyine hates bush so much that people on the fence ar gonna vote democrat
 
if you knew anything about mcain you would have respect for him, hes definaely not a george bush part 2. He spent 5 years in a VC prison camp, so hes not gonna take war lightly. An he doesnt wanna shit all of our money away just because he can. We're pretty close to a recession right now, and im sure taxes being raised on people who start up and run businesses isnt going to help the economy.
Socially he's in the middle too, not religious, doesnt hate gays.
Hes exactly what i would vote for.
But, i dont think obama can be stopped, hes got too much charisma. And everyine hates bush so much that people on the fence ar gonna vote democrat

Fuck mcain, wow you spent years in a VC camp. Like I care.

And your right Obama is going to sweep, if people have half a brain. It is time for change, and republican isn't the answer. Not that it's going to be easy - someone has to clean up 8 years of someone shiting on the country. [props to all you idiots that voted bush for another term]

Anayways small </rant>. Go Democrats.
 
if you knew anything about mcain you would have respect for him, hes definaely not a george bush part 2. He spent 5 years in a VC prison camp, so hes not gonna take war lightly. An he doesnt wanna shit all of our money away just because he can. We're pretty close to a recession right now, and im sure taxes being raised on people who start up and run businesses isnt going to help the economy.
Socially he's in the middle too, not religious, doesnt hate gays.
Hes exactly what i would vote for.
But, i dont think obama can be stopped, hes got too much charisma. And everyine hates bush so much that people on the fence ar gonna vote democrat

McCain used to seem like an intelligent moderate politician, now he talks of a hundred years of war and stuff... He is either bullshitting to get votes from the far right or senility is starting to set in.
 
McCain used to seem like an intelligent moderate politician, now he talks of a hundred years of war and stuff... He is either bullshitting to get votes from the far right or senility is starting to set in.

He said nothing of being at war for 100 years. You liberals need to find another McCain bash, that one is getting really tired.
 
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