The Bullshit Side of the Internet Marketing Guru Industry
- Thread starter Jon
- Start date
You're selling a lie whether it's $10, $100, $1,000 or $100,000 in the case of the first couple.
Payday loans are "borderline". Only reason someone has for getting a payday loan is they can't get credit elsewhere, i.e. they're desperate. It's exploiting people with high interest rates, that usually can't afford to pay off the debt. Again, desperate people.
I'm just trying to point out why this specific vertical is "different". What other online advertising products can you think of that can take 5 figures from someone voluntarily?
Seems a little weird that you are deciding whether something is moral based on "how badly you're screwing someone over". I'm pretty sure most people decide whether something is moral based on "whether or not you are screwing people over".
I'm not discussing whether things are moral or not, just simply pointing out why they would focus on the guru vertical.
Yeah. It's fine to steal $40 but it's not fine to steal $20,000
Btw, 99.8% of the guru crap I saw were sold for less than $100.
That article actually makes me feel bad for even being in business online at all, even though I try to stay far away from the 'make money online' niche.
I feel dirty just by being on the same marketing platform (the internet) as those guys. I'm going to take a shower, bbl.
I feel dirty just by being on the same marketing platform (the internet) as those guys. I'm going to take a shower, bbl.
So it's ok, as long as it's not more than, say, $500? Or is it a proportion of wealth?
You can take a single mom on welfare for, say $30, but a senior who has a nice fat retirement pot saved up is good for say, $5000?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zakyg3thfY"]Boiler Room "reco scene" Vin Diesel closing the sale - YouTube[/ame]
Why?
It has nothing to do with the medium. You can provide value to online customers. It's not the medium, it's the message.
Unless you're ripping people off, this shouldn't make you feel anything beyond annoyance that this is being promoted as valid journalism.
From the article:
Oh, I didn't know selling online is 100% fraudulent. FML, going back to my day job.
This article is retarded and full of blatant misinformation and flat-out lies. The author, with my quote above alone, proves he's a hypocrite (selling a Kindle book online, FRAUD!).
I'm not taking a stand for or against those mentioned in this article. I'm saying the way it's written is full of dis-information on the industry and direct marketing as a whole. You can work in this business, actually provide value and sleep well at night.
There doesn't have to be anything "dirty" about this industry.
Can you lose weight by taking a pill without exercise?
Can you make $324,326 a month online using a kit?
Can you get a tax free grant with a kit you bought online?
Can you fuck a smoking hot 10 with the blonde hair you saw on that banner you click?
Selling people a dream has been going on since the beginning of time and will continue until someone turn the lights off.
Can you dig it..
My hearts doesn't bleed for anyone.
Can you make $324,326 a month online using a kit?
Can you get a tax free grant with a kit you bought online?
Can you fuck a smoking hot 10 with the blonde hair you saw on that banner you click?
Selling people a dream has been going on since the beginning of time and will continue until someone turn the lights off.
Can you dig it..
My hearts doesn't bleed for anyone.
[WSO of the DAY!!]-[LIVE PROOF!] -- $1,500,000+ Using This EXACT Method NO ONE Else Is Doing!
just gonna leave this here
just gonna leave this here
This. When it comes down to it I'll pitch anything that I believe is of reasonably equitable value to the interested buyer regardless of what I think of it.
I see the opportunity to make money, I think the transaction is fair or meh and won't cause anyone harm, I get paid to make it happen. That constitutes a metric shit ton of markets more than willing to pay for my services. I'm responsible but I'm not a market's moral shepherd. And that is why we all like capitalism.
I can't speak for anybody else, but it reminds me of something my Grandma's husband said. "You should never, ever aim to screw somebody over. However, there are a lot of people who are going to screw themselves over no matter what, and there's no harm in being there to make a little money when they do."
Although my personal preference is to avoid promoting things I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending to friends or family, I don't put the offers you mentioned on the same level with the guru crap. With a typical offer, you're putting your ad out there and if people buy into it, that's their choice. We should all have a right to CHOOSE to do idiotic things, and even the most enticing landing page isn't actually FORCING people to buy/signup/etc.
The guru stuff the article is talking about is on a whole different level. They prey on desperate people, specifically because those are the people who are most likely to let their hope overshadow their common sense. If you've ever been at one of those events, you know the audience is typically much older than the typical CPA crowd. You get a lot of blue collar people, retired people, disabled people, etc. A lot of them have been worn down from a lifetime of getting kicked around by their circumstances, and they want desperately to believe:
-That the only reason they aren't wealthy is that they have been doing the wrong thing all these years...
-That they were meant to be millionaires all along...
-That someone has a ready-made system that will help them get there...
-That someday, they'll be able to tell off their boss, brag to their ex about what they passed up, etc.
If it stopped there, it would only be moderately deplorable. But it doesn't. Once someone is in "the system", they bleed them dry and toss them out when they're done. It's not "How would you like to buy this product?...No?...Ok, have a good day." They emphasize the sunk cost and try to make the people think that without this new tool or course or system, they won't be able to make money they've already spent. I remember a lady telling me she was worried that she wouldn't be able to earn back her investment if she didn't buy some specific course - and that even though she couldn't afford it, she didn't want to "lose" the rest of the money she had already put in. Some guy had been calling her on the phone and pressuring her to pull from her retirement savings to buy. Another girl put a $5k course on her credit card without telling her new husband, hoping she could earn it back before he found out. From what she said, that was probably half of her take-home pay that year. There was serious fear and emotional trauma once the up-sells came around.
Last I checked, no major CPA offers were aggressively pursuing their customers the way some of the guru sales forces do. They call on the phone repeatedly. They know the emotional hot buttons, and they know all kinds of fun ways the people can access the money to pay for more courses. They basically do everything they can to get the people to act against their own free will - sympathizing with them about family and friends who "just don't get it" because they're trying to discourage them from emptying their bank accounts.
They hold live events that are not so very different from religious or cult gatherings. They spend a couple of days bombarding you with images of how life COULD be, all while conveniently promoting products and swiping credit cards. Although I can't prove it, my hunch is that they plant people in the audience to help keep the morale up and the money flowing. I will say, though, that I DID know a few legit success stories. They didn't stick around the guru crowds very long.
But anyway, that's the difference as I see it. Not every internet marketing product creator operates the way these guys do, but to compare the gurus to the rest of the affiliate marketing space is to do the entire industry a huge disservice.
And no, Eric, it wasn't Mike Filsaime
For anyone who finds the whole guru thing interesting, I would highly recommend watching the mockumentary "Believe" (and not just because it features one of the guys from Air Supply). It's actually about MLM, but their depiction of the culture and the live events is not too far from the IM gurus. The only difference is that the movie doesn't really show the high-pressure phone sales, but it's still super funny.
I can't speak for anybody else, but it reminds me of something my Grandma's husband said. "You should never, ever aim to screw somebody over. However, there are a lot of people who are going to screw themselves over no matter what, and there's no harm in being there to make a little money when they do."
Although my personal preference is to avoid promoting things I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending to friends or family, I don't put the offers you mentioned on the same level with the guru crap. With a typical offer, you're putting your ad out there and if people buy into it, that's their choice. We should all have a right to CHOOSE to do idiotic things, and even the most enticing landing page isn't actually FORCING people to buy/signup/etc.
The guru stuff the article is talking about is on a whole different level. They prey on desperate people, specifically because those are the people who are most likely to let their hope overshadow their common sense. If you've ever been at one of those events, you know the audience is typically much older than the typical CPA crowd. You get a lot of blue collar people, retired people, disabled people, etc. A lot of them have been worn down from a lifetime of getting kicked around by their circumstances, and they want desperately to believe:
-That the only reason they aren't wealthy is that they have been doing the wrong thing all these years...
-That they were meant to be millionaires all along...
-That someone has a ready-made system that will help them get there...
-That someday, they'll be able to tell off their boss, brag to their ex about what they passed up, etc.
If it stopped there, it would only be moderately deplorable. But it doesn't. Once someone is in "the system", they bleed them dry and toss them out when they're done. It's not "How would you like to buy this product?...No?...Ok, have a good day." They emphasize the sunk cost and try to make the people think that without this new tool or course or system, they won't be able to make money they've already spent. I remember a lady telling me she was worried that she wouldn't be able to earn back her investment if she didn't buy some specific course - and that even though she couldn't afford it, she didn't want to "lose" the rest of the money she had already put in. Some guy had been calling her on the phone and pressuring her to pull from her retirement savings to buy. Another girl put a $5k course on her credit card without telling her new husband, hoping she could earn it back before he found out. From what she said, that was probably half of her take-home pay that year. There was serious fear and emotional trauma once the up-sells came around.
Last I checked, no major CPA offers were aggressively pursuing their customers the way some of the guru sales forces do. They call on the phone repeatedly. They know the emotional hot buttons, and they know all kinds of fun ways the people can access the money to pay for more courses. They basically do everything they can to get the people to act against their own free will - sympathizing with them about family and friends who "just don't get it" because they're trying to discourage them from emptying their bank accounts.
They hold live events that are not so very different from religious or cult gatherings. They spend a couple of days bombarding you with images of how life COULD be, all while conveniently promoting products and swiping credit cards. Although I can't prove it, my hunch is that they plant people in the audience to help keep the morale up and the money flowing. I will say, though, that I DID know a few legit success stories. They didn't stick around the guru crowds very long.
But anyway, that's the difference as I see it. Not every internet marketing product creator operates the way these guys do, but to compare the gurus to the rest of the affiliate marketing space is to do the entire industry a huge disservice.
And no, Eric, it wasn't Mike Filsaime
For anyone who finds the whole guru thing interesting, I would highly recommend watching the mockumentary "Believe" (and not just because it features one of the guys from Air Supply). It's actually about MLM, but their depiction of the culture and the live events is not too far from the IM gurus. The only difference is that the movie doesn't really show the high-pressure phone sales, but it's still super funny.
All very valid points. Probably the 3rd time I have said this today since reading that article, but picture your own mother or father on the receiving end of the guru bullshit.
That depends on exactly how the affiliate was preselling it. What's really the difference between that and using techniques that were common a couple years back, the flogs, fake articles, etc?
Pitching a pill that had a tiny bit of acai in it (if any), writing as Rachel Rae telling people it will make them lose weight, rebilling them before they could cancel, and even then making it difficult or impossible. Anyone that brought up how it might be unethical was crucified while everyone here was laughing with "stupid sheep can't read the hidden terms of service! hahaha idiots!"
Don't get me wrong, I don't deserve to serve as anyone's moral compass, and at the end of the day I just don't care anyway, but to tell yourself that there is some sort of difference between the two practices is embarrassingly hypocritical.
Okay there are guys who did weight-loss and/or edugrants for $40 recurring.
And then there are guys who do or are doing the guru shit.
And then there are the bastards who ran the sub-prime industry (read "the Big Short" by Michael Lewis.
Okay, not many saints in this forum but how many lives were wrecked by an Acai berry rebill?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
(For the record, never did Acai or Google Cash or Edu grants or any of that shit. Currently working in the stock newsletter biz for a guy who is very smart and very ethical. But I'm lucky. Damn lucky. So much sleaze in this industry and I was lucky to hook up with one of the few good guys. Other people aren't so lucky and still have bills to pay, I acknowledge that)
And then there are guys who do or are doing the guru shit.
And then there are the bastards who ran the sub-prime industry (read "the Big Short" by Michael Lewis.
Okay, not many saints in this forum but how many lives were wrecked by an Acai berry rebill?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
(For the record, never did Acai or Google Cash or Edu grants or any of that shit. Currently working in the stock newsletter biz for a guy who is very smart and very ethical. But I'm lucky. Damn lucky. So much sleaze in this industry and I was lucky to hook up with one of the few good guys. Other people aren't so lucky and still have bills to pay, I acknowledge that)