How Hydra Affiliate Network Screwed Me Out Of $25,000

Status
Not open for further replies.
To the first TWO networks that change their Terms of Service to address this huge issue mentioned in this thread and hereby agrees to finally back the affiliate more than the advertiser, and agrees to pay the affiliates in FULL, I'll give you guys 3 months free advertising on WickedFire (728x90 leaderboard RON AND your own section for six months - worth over $35k total). -- You MUST change your rules and prove so, don't just email me and say "we already do this" because it's a fucking lie. NO network I know of takes the side of an affiliate and pays them in full (full amount they are owed) and acts the way a network should act anymore and its a fucking disgrace.
Hey Jon,

While I always respect your opinions and for the most part agree with all you say, I have to disagree with you here. As a network, I have to rebut this because you are painting ALL networks with the same brush and I think that's pretty unfair.

You have no clue how much I've eaten over the years because of merchants who've decided not to pay their bills. And I know of several other networks that are in the exact same boat as me (Copeac for one). Fact is, you don't hear about this because we don't broadcast "Hey affiliates, we got fucked over, but we're still going to pay you". It just isn't good business to air dirty laundry. But in this case, I felt I had to speak up.

While your suggestion is noble, I don't expect any network will make any changes to their terms. Well, I should step back from that a bit. I don't expect any network with real experience in this industry, or with a strong legal team, will make any changes like this. Do you know why? Because it puts too much protection on the side of the affiliate, and that's dangerous.

Why is it dangerous? Because there will be cases where an affiliate is fraudulent and it takes several weeks (months) to detect the fraud. Merchant finds it and refuses to pay for the leads. I'm certainly not going to step up to the plate for a fraudulent affiliate, nor am I going to pay them for leads that are fraud. I know this is an exception that rarely happens, but that's what most clauses in contracts are for - to handle the exceptions. And that's why I have a similar clause in my affiliate terms and conditions, and why I'd never remove it. How many times have I exercised this clause in the 5+ years MB's been around? Zero. But I leave it in as a just-in-case.

I don't know the OP, don't know the specifics in the case of the OP, and I've never really worked with Hydra. But to me, there has to be more to the story than what we've read so far. In my experiences where affiliates come screaming to boards, there always is. It makes no business sense for a network to throw away a happy $5K per day affiliate simply to pocket $25K. And if they WERE stupid enough to not pay this guy who was delivering legit (while maybe poor quality) leads, then they're stupid and deserve what the get.

Affiliates want protection? They should do their homework and do some research on the networks they want to work with. Look at the history of the network. Look at who owns/runs the network. Check the reputation of the network on boards. Speak with other affiliates. Don't pick a network simply because they're promising "hot chicks and free booze". Unless, of course, they're looking to get fucked in more ways than one.
 


We're stepping up to Jon's challenge. We'll pay in FULL to every partner (affiliate) who does not commit fraud and does not break Offer Rules (which are clearly stated on every offer). Amending TOS right now.
 
Added to the Commissions section of the "Affiliate Terms and Conditions":

5.8 LentusMedia will pay Commissions in full unless the Member commits fraud or violated clearly stated Offer Rules.


We're stepping up to Jon's challenge. We'll pay in FULL to every partner (affiliate) who does not commit fraud and does not break Offer Rules (which are clearly stated on every offer). Amending TOS right now.
 
We're stepping up to Jon's challenge. We'll pay in FULL to every partner (affiliate) who does not commit fraud and does not break Offer Rules (which are clearly stated on every offer). Amending TOS right now.


The flaming homosexual on your site's frontpage makes me never want to do business with you...
 
We're stepping up to Jon's challenge. We'll pay in FULL to every partner (affiliate) who does not commit fraud and does not break Offer Rules (which are clearly stated on every offer). Amending TOS right now.


I can vouch for datingloot. The advertiser didn't like my traffic (so they said) and ended up not wanting to pay.

Datingloot paid me anyway and took the hit.

Datingloot pays by paypal. Only downside..
 
$25,000 is not worth bringing into court. I say you should focus on generating more revenue to another network.

I disagree - you find a young & hungry attorney who will take this to get their name in lights, you'll get that settled in a hurry.

btw, another reason to get out to AS. Their team was there and was very suspect. I couldn't even get through a conversation w/ them w/o wanting to wash my hands.
 
COPEAC rulezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

oh rly?
then why did they terminate my account without explanation and not answer a subsequent 5 emails sent within a month asking why my account is terminated? i certainly hadn't broken any rules. yet they have the hide to continually send me updates and new offer emails.

Neverblue, well they just dont like responding to emails so i stopped all my campaigns with them.

The only network i'm enjoying is C2M - professional and responsive, unlike many others.
 
$25,000 is not worth bringing into court. I say you should focus on generating more revenue to another network.

That's retarded.

You sue for money owed + legal expenses. The only loser will be hydra, because their odds of winning are low, and their cost to defend will be MUCH higher than paying you.

Have an attorney send a collections letter, and if you don't hear back within 10 days, sue those motherfuckers.
 
QualityHeath is absolute shit. I met up with them @ Aff Summit in Boston this summer and they seemed nice, so I gave them a try. Was pretty successful for a short time and then out of nowhere my leads got cut significantly. I decided to run a test transaction on a 100% clean machine with completely valid info - no pixel fired, no commission. Tried it a few other times, and it looks like they were only showing the pixel on about 1/2 the submits that they should have.

Fuck em - quit working with Quality Health through any network.
 
oh rly?
then why did they terminate my account without explanation and not answer a subsequent 5 emails sent within a month asking why my account is terminated? i certainly hadn't broken any rules. yet they have the hide to continually send me updates and new offer emails.

Neverblue, well they just dont like responding to emails so i stopped all my campaigns with them.

The only network i'm enjoying is C2M - professional and responsive, unlike many others.

cant say anything about neverblue, but copeac (and a4d) are by far the most "publisher-friend" ad networdk, IMO
 
Ive never promoted anything through quality health, but I definitely wont ever consider it after some of the reviews in this thread.
 
Copeac came through with me after an offer got pulled and confusion on the payout before the offer was lowered -that is a good sign of character. Feel sorry for you bro on the skip out with Hydra.
 
Suing them might be costly, try heading over their booth and speaking with them. I'm sure ONE of their staff has seen this thread and knows you're serious. Maybe you can work it out there, in person. If you can't get that resolved, sue them because your chances of winning are rather high. Good luck.
 
I think most telling is that they haven't bothered to respond yet. I guess Mike from Copeac and, of course Smax from A4D have raised the bar to epic proportions here on WF.
 
The best networks are the networks who have quality AFF managers. If the AM sucks, the partnership sucks.
 
Hey Jon,

You have no clue how much I've eaten over the years because of merchants who've decided not to pay their bills. And I know of several other networks that are in the exact same boat as me (Copeac for one). Fact is, you don't hear about this because we don't broadcast "Hey affiliates, we got fucked over, but we're still going to pay you". It just isn't good business to air dirty laundry. But in this case, I felt I had to speak up.

While that sucks, and I feel for you, collections is part of your business no? Also, I would imagine that any company who did due diligence in terms of running his / her company would build that into the rate structure and revenue model of his / her organization. While I understand your point, don't expect me to shed a tear.

Hey Jon, Do you know why? Because it puts too much protection on the side of the affiliate, and that's dangerous.

Why is it dangerous? Because there will be cases where an affiliate is fraudulent and it takes several weeks (months) to detect the fraud. Merchant finds it and refuses to pay for the leads. I'm certainly not going to step up to the plate for a fraudulent affiliate, nor am I going to pay them for leads that are fraud. I know this is an exception that rarely happens, but that's what most clauses in contracts are for - to handle the exceptions. And that's why I have a similar clause in my affiliate terms and conditions, and why I'd never remove it. How many times have I exercised this clause in the 5+ years MB's been around? Zero. But I leave it in as a just-in-case.

Ok, well...no one is talking about fraud here. If an affiliate is abiding by the terms of the offer, then the advertiser has an obligation to pay - AND THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, NOT THE AFFILIATES. You accepted the offer on your network. If they are breaking terms then it's a different issue. It doesn't sound like this is the case from the OP.

Affiliates want protection? They should do their homework and do some research on the networks they want to work with.

While I'm not denying culpability of the affiliate in this equation, but what the fuck are you here for then? Isn't a major part of your role to add value on both sides of the equation?

Be the exception, and stop passing the buck.
 
Jon- very cool-

Everyone else- if you choose to run submits, prepare for this shit. Ive never seen a submit on ANY network not scrub or go sideways. Youre asking the advertiser to be HONEST. Give me a break...they toss some $$ your way, and then they scrub. (And how can you prove otherwise...hmmm)
The networks dont give a shit since they have AMPLE amounts of us throwing cubic dollars, and it doesnt make sense for them to be on the phone for $500-$1000 a day worth of business, when they have dozens of clients to oversee, who run CPA offers...
Ive run subs on over a dozen networks, with as legit traffic as anyone can gather, only to have it go to the shitter.
Forget subs..or generate your OWN leads and resell them.
Fuck the submit advertisers..never met an honest one.

As far as the networks, there ARE some great people out there, but they are at the mercy of the advertisers...Jon said it best..the networks need to put more in place to reduce the advertiser fraud. Its getting out of hand.
 
Jon- very cool-

Everyone else- if you choose to run submits, prepare for this shit. Ive never seen a submit on ANY network not scrub or go sideways.

Sadly I have to agree with affiliatearmy on this one as well... I couldn't believe how fast the shaving got jacked up through multiple different offers I was running on different networks. I no longer run submits, but I most definitely agree that from an affiliate's perspective it can seem like whenever they feel like it, the shaver gets set to 11 and down goes your money.

I'm truly sorry to hear about the OP's troubles, and I do hope if you're going to ad:tech that you show up at their booth and demand an explanation. If possible, get someone to video it for posterity - or for the courtroom.

Good luck!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.