My Conversation with Mark Karpeles of MtGox

On top of that, the miner pillar. I had a miner plugged in for 2 weeks. Then it became unprofitable. So I unplugged it. I don't think the network is as secure as has been touted. If the price continues to be depressed and the difficulty continues to rise. You will have more miners going offline. And I'm sure the rebuttal to that is that the difficulty will reduce as there is less computing power so it will fix itself, but I don't think the changes in difficulty and price will operate in a lock-step fashion that properly addresses this. It seems like the result is that bigger players will continue to ramp up mining power and kill the little guys which is a trend towards centralization.

I also don't think the fact that some "big names" are very interested is enough justification. Or that since people have invested millions, they won't let bitcoin die, as if they have control of it.

tl;dr - I don't feel bitcoin or any coin is a currency. They are commodities. I will consider them currencies when many people readily sell their labor for bitcoin.
 


Lukep I totally respect you as the messiah of bitcoin
How dare you question the messiah ?!
Contrary to the belief of ingrates everywhere, I do not wish to be any type of messiah. As an atheist and especially as a voluntaryist I find that kind of talk offensive in fact.


people would take you more seriously if you didn't pretend to have a crystal ball and make such definitive statements. That's what turns on most people's bullshit-detectors and really doesn't help the "this isn't a bubble" argument, fwiw.
I know it's hard to understand, but I passed the point of giving a fart in the wind about how people seriously take these arguments long ago. I just want to be right. -And so far I've got a pretty good record.


Luke you make a point but does those 10 millions americans without bank account can afford a smart phone?
LG Optimus Zone, Verizon No Contract - Walmart.com Stop living in the past.

Also those 6 billions people with cells phones and no bank account don't forget that 90% of them are equipped with mobile phone not much better than nokia 3310 and does not support any app.
You can bitcoin to SMS accounts too bro. Check out Bitpesa, Moneero, or look how simple it is to use here at Coinopult. There are many others as well in other languages.


Also good luck to motivate those guys to adopt Bitcoin as my experienced in south east asia / africa and 3rd world is that those guys only trust cash money.
It is no small battle, but hundreds of people have already set up shop in those parts of the world, like Bitpesa has, to fight that fight already. I'm hoping to hear the start of the good news from that region by summertime.


If bitcoin is adopted by more merchants, they will do what current merchants do... immediately sell for their fiat currency of choice. I don't see how increased adoption leads to higher prices. It seems to me it will just increase the number of sellers and push down prices. Right now, when someone sells 500-1k coins, the prices gets hit for $20-$40.
Congrats, you can read the article I just linked. It's still progress though as any marketer here can tell you they are endorsing the bitcoin brand for us to their whole userbase... The price will recover in time due to the new business they help generate.


Bitcoin proponents keep saying, you can just immediately convert bitcoins to dollars, no risk! But how does the fact that if there are not enough buyers for someone like, a Walmart, the price will go down and down. What pillar is that?
That isn't a pillar in itself, but it outlines the need for the Adoption pillar, which includes Hoarders. If enough hoarders are buying cheap coins, it can't go down beyond what those hoarders deem is cheap.

For the record, I do not want walmart to hop on our bandwagon yet... That would indeed bring the price down to $100 or lower with their volume. It is a balancing act that I really hope isn't rushed that much.


On top of that, the miner pillar. I had a miner plugged in for 2 weeks. Then it became unprofitable. So I unplugged it.
Oh Noes! You'll crash the whole network!!1!1!11!

:rolleyes:

Please learn to read this chart: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Now ask yourself, why are all these companies and large mining rig farm operators still buying these cutting edge rigs when the price has been dropping since last november? Aren't they all losing money? Why don't they just go mine some other SHA256 coin with their equipment?

The answer to that question lies in the original bitcoin whitepaper, circa 2009. Satoshi's got this bro; the hashrate will always rise, it's well incentivized to do so.

More hash rate = more security

And 50 petahashes is so over-the-top secure that bond villians everywhere would pee in their pants just thinking about that kind of power.


I also don't think the fact that some "big names" are very interested is enough justification.
Of course not. What matters is where they put their money... And this year alone VCs have put more money into bitcoin tech companies than you'd believe if I told you. A few even buy bitcoin directly, or buy it up to stock their institutional bitcoin funds.


I don't feel bitcoin or any coin is a currency. They are commodities. I will consider them currencies when many people readily sell their labor for bitcoin.
Something you and the IRS can agree on, even if FINCen, federal judges, and the treasury dept all don't. But as I said above, the bitcoin community is still working hard on making bitcoin a true currency, we know it's meant to be one but will take time to achieve that status through building enough liquidity.

As for trading their labor for bitcoin, I can point you to a dozen different job boards where people post their resumes hoping to do exactly that, such as Coinality. For that matter I only work on projects that will earn coin... I'd stop using fiat forever right now if I could, and there's really only a few final things stopping me from doing so.
 
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I just want to be right. -And so far I've got a pretty good record.

This is pure hilarity.

According to you BTC is a great buy at any price. I am pretty sure the people who read your preachings and bought in at $1200 are very grateful for this advice.

Of course not. What matters is where they put their money... And this year alone VCs have put more money into bitcoin tech companies than you'd believe if I told you. A few even buy bitcoin directly, or buy it up to stock their institutional bitcoin funds.

VCs constantly fund speculative crap and just because they invested in something does not mean it is worth shit

I hope you have not put late money in their typical "clean tech" deal
 
This is pure hilarity.

According to you BTC is a great buy at any price.
If the only thing you hear me talking about on these bitcoin threads is price points so you can make trades, then you'll never get it.


I am pretty sure the people who read your preachings and bought in at $1200 are very grateful for this advice.
I doubt I told anyone to buy at that time but if I did, they only have a few more months to wait now for it to be a positive trade at any rate. Tons of big news coming up later this spring to help those other columns grow and catch up to the merchant column.
 
I haven't had a chance to read this thread yet, but if I had a chance to interview him I would have asked more questions about his cars, apparently he's got some amazing rides in his collection, like a Maserati 300S that he actually races, and of course questions about his solo work and Dire Straits.
 
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Bitcoin atms lol

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo"]Tested: We Buy a Bitcoin! - YouTube[/ame]

Also, it sounds like Chase is completely closing out bank accounts that are involved with Bitcoin. It would totally suck to have to deal with that.
 
Luke you make a point but does those 10 millions americans without bank account can afford a smart phone ?

Also those 6 billions people with cells phones and no bank account don't forget that 90% of them are equipped with mobile phone not much better than nokia 3310 and does not support any app.

Don't forget that in 5 years "ancient" smartphones like Samsung Galaxy S2 will be worth something like $30 - or 0,0000000000000000000001 bitcoin.
 
And it looks like Neo and Bee was a total scam? Or at least totally mismanaged their business and customer funds.
 
And now update with the Chinese ...

The PBOC ruling stated that "all accounts opened by the operators of websites that trade in the virtual currency" through banks and payment firms had to close, and close soon. With Bitcoin business effectively banned in the country — and the only way to purchase the currency now through cold, hard cash — trading posts have to move their servers abroad and use foreign payment firms to keep going, or shut their doors.

The ruling was set in place after the PBOC decided that Bitcoin should be considered a commodity rather than currency, and so consumers need to understand it is not legal tender and will not be treated as such.

Following these reports, two Chinese Bitcoin exchanges have issued advisory warnings to their users this week.

The FXBTC posted a notice stating that instructions to stop customer withdrawals were received by telephone call, as part of the bank's "Bitcoin risk prevention work." The Bitcoin exchange added that some banks have asked for accounts to be cancelled within the next few days, and the central bank will not provide "clearing services" for Bitcoin-based businesses.

Due to the rapid orders, FXBTC said as of April 3, it would "no longer deal with bank recharge after Sunday, [and] suspend bank card withdrawals."

Chinese banks begin to close accounts in Bitcoin crackdown | ZDNet
 
If the only thing you hear me talking about on these bitcoin threads is price points so you can make trades, then you'll never get it.

...

I doubt I told anyone to buy at that time but if I did, they only have a few more months to wait now for it to be a positive trade at any rate. Tons of big news coming up later this spring to help those other columns grow and catch up to the merchant column.

The clear implications of all your posts is "Bitcoin is inevitable, Bitcoin will be huge, Bitcoin is going to the moon, blah, blah, blah". Under that sort of reasoning it is a buy at any price. Listening to this kind of "advice" is exactly how people lose most of their money during bubbles.
 
The clear implications of all your posts is "Bitcoin is inevitable, Bitcoin will be huge, Bitcoin is going to the moon, blah, blah, blah".
Allow me to clarify and quantify a bit here...

Bitcoin IS inevitable, it WILL "be huge," but I can't say what it's price will be and certainly not when it will get there.

In fact I feel it is beneath me to talk about its' price at all. That's just one indicator of adoption, and not one of the best ones. It seems totally asinine to keep talking about its' price like that's the only reason for bitcoin to exist... For taking advantage of speculation... I'm going to have to start refusing all talk about its' price totally now.
 
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In fact I feel it is beneath me to talk about its' price at all.
 
Spoken like a true messiah.

Go+Fuck+Yourself+Logo.jpg


Anyone who doesn't agree with my statement still doesn't get bitcoin nor its' inherent awesomeness. You probably won't get it until some day when your refrigerator or child's toy orders for its' own replacement groceries or repair part using its' own bitcoin "bank account" without your help in any way.

...Or at least when you finally realize how damaging it is at it's core to governments, yet it keeps growing regardless.


I enjoy the bits of analytic discussion. The other stuff is kind of a waste of time.

It's kinda sad how something like this can come along and so few can understand the significance of it. Reminds me of a caveman finding a gun and throwing the whole gun at what he wants to hunt.
 
Wanted to share this message found there : Mapping Bitcoin's Global Adoption | Zero Hedge

If you really wanna read guys that know what they are talking about, read that thread.

Mon, 05/27/2013

As you might know, I was the biggest Bitcoin booster on ZH. I still like Bitcoin to hold but I no longer trust the development community to adhere to the original underlying concepts and designs. I certainly don't trust the main exchange, Mtgox, to be an honest dealer. The guys that run it are crooks. And then there's Coinbase, the Money Powers foot in Bitcoin's door. Coinbase is run by Fred Ehrsam, Goldman Sachs operative. Coinbase is GS's way of getting Bitcoins to play with and their way of gathering intel on their "customers".

Bitcoin was supposed to be a decentralized, P2P currency with an emphasis on privacy. The privacy angle is gone since so many people are willing to give their banking information to Coinbase and Mtgox in order to get bitcoins.

As a speculative venture, get some bitcoins if you can do it without giving up your personal info. If you have to give up your info to get bitcoins, it ain't worth it.
 
I think I can safely say I'll never see the day where my refrigerator orders groceries using it's own bitcoin account. That might work for those who live on a diet of processed food, but that isn't my thing.

how damaging it is at it's core to governments
And that is where you lose all credibility. Most "anarchists" live with the benefit of government provided services while proclaiming their individual independence and protesting police states.

I've been there, thought that, but some people mature.
 
I think I can safely say I'll never see the day where my refrigerator orders groceries using it's own bitcoin account. That might work for those who live on a diet of processed food, but that isn't my thing.
So you honestly can't imagine that anyone would want to keep fresh milk in the fridge without having to go to the store?

Wow, I wasn't aware that there were people out there with this little imagination.


And that is where you lose all credibility. Most "anarchists" live with the benefit of government provided services while proclaiming their individual independence and protesting police states.
I'm not going to make this thread about how private solutions would be better without requiring the force inherent in government. This is not that thread...

Thankfully we don't have to go there because that's not the statement I made... I didn't speak to the morals here of "if its right" for us to remove a government, I spoke to the logic of computer code that does it's own work in hurting governments whether or not any humans want it to or not.

That particular pandora's box was opened on Jan 3rd, 2009, and is already thousands of times more powerful at what it does than all the supercomputers in the world put together. Given the lack of imagination you displayed above, I have to assume you haven't put 2 & 2 together yet on what some of the possible outcomes here could be.

Use logic, ask yourself who benefits from what action, who doesn't, and the answer will eventually be inescapable.