My Conversation with Mark Karpeles of MtGox

[lukep]

Actually I think they can mess up BTC but only if people running bitcoin-qt(miners) accept their changes. Miners are the ones controlling what version of the bitcoin software is accepted.. so the question is why wouldn't they eventually go corrupt (like every one else) and make a version of BTC that gives them more BTC/rewards for mining?

Their changes? They aren't coders!

The foundation is just another parasitical class of people trying to grab power when they don't have any inherently. In the end there is no avoiding the fact that they don't have any actual power over the bitcoin protocol nor mining community. Being all cozy with the regulators is going to put them in a very dubious position one day when the regulators expect things from them and they can't deliver.

 

[WickedJoe]

Their changes? They aren't coders!

The foundation is just another parasitical class of people trying to grab power when they don't have any inherently. In the end there is no avoiding the fact that they don't have any actual power over the bitcoin protocol nor mining community. Being all cozy with the regulators is going to put them in a very dubious position one day when the regulators expect things from them and they can't deliver.

I see. Well whoever does the coding then.. they are vulnerable to corruption albeit through the democracy of the miners. It's actually an interesting experiment. From what I've heard/read this coin is not actually an anarchy-coin it's more democratic-coin. Miners do the voting through what version of bitcoin-qt they accept. And it will be interesting to see if the code ever gets corrupt and deviates from the original plan of 21 million coins to please the miners. Or if it does other things that will seem corruptish like large transaction fees.

 

[dmnEPC]

I see. Well whoever does the coding then.. they are vulnerable to corruption albeit through the democracy of the miners. It's actually an interesting experiment. From what I've heard/read this coin is not actually an anarchy-coin it's more democratic-coin. Miners do the voting through what version of bitcoin-qt they accept. And it will be interesting to see if the code ever gets corrupt and deviates from the original plan of 21 million coins to please the miners. Or if it does other things that will seem corruptish like large transaction fees.

The coders are very vulnerable. It only takes a few of the influential ones to dictate the direction of btc. This is already happening.

 

[lukep]

I see. Well whoever does the coding then.. they are vulnerable to corruption albeit through the democracy of the miners.

The coders are mostly all anarchists and have to be to appreciate the code. You can't appreciate bitcoin at a code level unless you have a disdain for centralized systems; it is the centralization-slayer, plain and simple. Anyone trying to submit code to that that helps centralization in any way will be ridiculed.

This means that before the miners get their semi-democratized "vote," there is another, more important level of safety at the github level.

You generally have to prove yourself to make code change submissions that anyone would ever read... The proven coder that makes the most accepted commits (code changes) usually becomes the head coder, and he has the most say over which commits get to be added to the next package.

Miners 'vote' for their chosen package by whether or not they download and run it or not. But first, the package itself is made in a meritocracy of anarchists. Therefore, there won't be any pro-government code coming to the miners to be voted on.

it's more democratic-coin. Miners do the voting through what version of bitcoin-qt they accept.

Even on that level I wouldn't call it a democracy exactly because they don't have one vote per person... You vote with your hashing power, so the ppl with the biggest rigs &/or pools will have the most say...

...About if the anarchist-meritocracy-made code gets accepted or not.

So if you want a metric to judge if bitcoin is being corrupted or not; go by the politics of the coders contributing to the bitcoin project on github.

 

[WickedJoe]

Miners 'vote' for their chosen package by whether or not they download and run it or not. But first, the package itself is made in a meritocracy of anarchists. Therefore, there won't be any pro-government code coming to the miners to be voted on.

It doesn't need to be pro-government to be corrupt. And why wouldn't a meritocracy of anarchists and miners be corruptible and design code to favor themselves? Even users might demand massive changes that would change BTC from it's original plan. If 90% of humans on earth used BTC and they wanted to introduce some major change do you really think the coders/miners wouldn't be vulnerable to some of the ideas of the user-base?

In the end BTC code is a continual work in progress which means it's always vulnerable to human fallibility. In fact BTC is a 100% human construct and nothing else.. so it's always going to be vulnerable to the current whims of popular culture/beliefs of whoever is doing the coding at that moment. BTC is putting faith in groups of people to handle your money/currency.. and that's usually a losing bet when money/power is concerned.

Gold on the other hand is just gold. The gold you have today will be the same gold 1000 yrs from now no matter what the belief system of humanity is.

 

[furfing]

It doesn't need to be pro-government to be corrupt. And why wouldn't a meritocracy of anarchists and miners be corruptible and design code to favor themselves? Even users might demand massive changes that would change BTC from it's original plan. If 90% of humans on earth used BTC and they wanted to introduce some major change do you really think the coders/miners wouldn't be vulnerable to some of the ideas of the user-base?

In the end BTC code is a continual work in progress which means it's always vulnerable to human fallibility. In fact BTC is a 100% human construct and nothing else.. so it's always going to be vulnerable to the current whims of popular culture/beliefs of whoever is doing the coding at that moment. BTC is putting faith in groups of people to handle your money/currency.. and that's usually a losing bet when money/power is concerned.

Gold on the other hand is just gold. The gold you have today will be the same gold 1000 yrs from now no matter what the belief system of humanity is.

Great Post !

 

[lukep]

It doesn't need to be pro-government to be corrupt.

Technically true. Not practically tho.

There is the possibility that a bad actor, even an anarchist bad actor who is completely selfish joins up and starts playing the long-con game of contributing helpful code in the hopes that some day he can contribute some selfish code. He'd have to be extremely smart though, another Satoshi no less, for the meritocracy to fail us all from spotting his selfish code.

I won't say it's 100% impossible for this to happen, but it's about as probable as catching a meteor with your hand. Too many knowledgable eyeballs looking over the code and understanding what the changes would mean before approval.

And why wouldn't a meritocracy of anarchists and miners be corruptible and design code to favor themselves?

Because they're invested in bitcoin's success.

Satoshi spoke of this problem. In a nutshell, a single infiltrator could try, but wouldn't get much past the meritocracy. A group of infiltrators won't exist, because most of the group will be invested in bitcoin before being accepted into the meritocracy, and therefore want to protect bitcoin's integrity.

Gold on the other hand is just gold. The gold you have today will be the same gold 1000 yrs from now no matter what the belief system of humanity is.

Gold has a limitless supply, however. Wait until Planetary Resources starts bringing down their product and suddenly you can't buy a damn pizza for an ounce of pure gold anymore... Not to mention all of it's other failings as a currency.

I'll put my money with proper incentivization structures over historical record in this case.

 

[ZeroOne]

vyvanse > adderall tbh

 

[Frantic]

The funds are there, just "not there" and "temporarily unavailable".

Hmmm... he should have used the "funds are in motion" line like Chris Mallick from ePassporte did. That line bought him a good 6 weeks before everyone realized they were getting fucked out of their money.

"temporarily unavailable" just doesn't have the right ring to it. The "funds are in motion" line on the other hand is quite catchy!

"temporarily unavailable" (Karpelis) == "your funds are safe" (Mallick)

I'm still somewhat of a BC newb so still reading up on it all..

But you are right "funds are in motion" is timeless.. he outta know if you're familiar with his long history in the billing business.

In case anyone needs a refresher on Chris Mallick or more fun quotes: Christopher Mallick - Biography

 

[KennyPowers]

 

[SLO Ur Roll]

bump


DHS fingered Mt. Gox's Mark Karpales as original Silk Road founder

 

[sennin436]

bump


DHS fingered Mt. Gox's Mark Karpales as original Silk Road founder

why am I not surprised. if any of this is true, then MtGox was all just a big con for Karpeles. Especially when it's recently been concluded(?) by japanese authorities that the bitcoin heist at mtgox was most likely an inside job.

Ulbricht's defense is pointing to Karpeles as the man who not only took up the Silk Road ownership but actually committed every single crime for which Ulbricht is charged.

Karpeles is a French citizen living in Japan, and was found guilty last year of fraud in France. He is currently under investigation for massive fraud that led to the closure of Mt. Gox...

....Ulbricht’s lead attorney, Joshua Dratel, said that Karpeles was the man pulling the strings behind Silk Road from 2011 until 2013, and that his associate Ashley Barr, a Canadian computer scientist, became the famously libertarian voice of Dread Pirate Roberts.

“Lots of little things added up to [Karpeles],” Der-Yeghiayan testified...

...Instead, other Homeland Security investigations into Karpeles, for separate and related crimes, led investigators to seize $2 million from Karpeles in May 2013, thus tipping Karpeles off that he was on the radar of the United States government....

----...The Homeland Security agent’s theory was that Karpeles, as owner of Mt. Gox, held an enormous amount of Bitcoin. He used Silk Road to leverage that price and raise it, which it did by several hundred times over during the course of Silk Road’s lifespan. Bitcoin was worth around $2 at Silk Road's launch and hit as high as $290 by 2013.