WTF are you talking about? Bitcoin recently dropped about 60% in value due to two decisions made by governments -- China basically banning it, and US declaring it property.
My Conversation with Mark Karpeles of MtGox
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WTF are you talking about? Bitcoin recently dropped about 60% in value due to two decisions made by governments -- China basically banning it, and US declaring it property.
All just a temporary setback... Seriously though, I think you're pretty much spot on. BTC being so immune to all governments and being a currency is a big joke to me, same goes for Luke's wannabe arguments.
I mean sure, it's a currency, the only problem is that there's not a single price in the world defined in BTC - it's all bound to the BTC / $ price. The only thing BTC is for me nowadays is a cheaper, yet non mainstream, alternative option to send <insert currency of your choice> to a recipient. Far from being a currency.
IF BTC gets as comfortable to use as paypal, it might get popular. But face it, nobody gives a fuck about BTC as a currency. Only thing people care about is the $ / € value of a BTC when using it. Not like you buy a banana for 0.00xxx BTCs. You buy it for a dollar that's converted in BTC...
The problem with BTC supporter is the fact they are sometimes being delusional and not really living in real life. Maybe bitcoin is a progress, but it's not worth all those discussion...
As you said not many cares about BTC and most of people will never care.
That's a very convenient response to all the people who have and will lose a lot of money "investing" in this stuff...
Nobody is doubting the significance of the technological innovation. You do not have to be a genius to "get it".
What is in huge doubt is whether the coins ecosystem has any chance of surviving in any form close to what it looks like right now and whether the people putting money into it right now will lose their shirts.
The caveman never "found a gun", it took a few thousand years to make firearms that actually work...
Which is exactly why governments will crush (or co-opt) it with all their power - when they get serious about it.
At the end of the day people with laws and guns have all the power of enforcement and all the anarchists and cyberpunks have none.
The most populated country on earth already Crushed Bitcoin... And we are still talking of a currency after China literraly banned it ?
TWO small bitcoin exchanges in China are stopping customer deposits in yuan, suggesting that exchanges are starting to take action after what people familiar with the matter say are a behind-the-scenes order from the central bank for banks and payment companies to close bitcoin trading accounts.
The Wall Street Journal reported this week that accounts must be shut down by April 15, according to these people.
One of the two exchanges, Shenzhen-based BTC38, is discontinuing bank transfers, saying it has received news of the central bank’s intentions from banks and third-party platforms.
The other, Shanghai-based FXBTC, is ending deposits effectively now and suspending bank-card withdrawals on Sunday, saying it has received phone calls from several banks urging it to cancel accounts as soon as possible.
The exchanges are less well-known than BTC China, Huobi and OKCoin — three of the most commonly used platforms by local investors — but their announcements is an indication how murky regulatory directives are reining in the market without authorities’ outlawing the digital currency completely.
The central bank moved in a similar fashion last December, when local media and industry participants say it ordered third-party payment platforms to stop working with bitcoin exchanges at a closed-door meeting, but stopped short of addressing the exchanges directly.
The only public announcement by the central bank was earlier that month when it barred financial institutions from dealing with bitcoin, but said people could buy and sell the virtual currency at their own risk.
“There’s not much left for the exchanges if buying and selling bitcoins isn’t really feasible due to funding restrictions,” said Zennon Kapron, founder of Shanghai-based consultancy Kapronasia. “In the West, some exchanges provide merchant services,” he said, “but that hasn’t really developed in China.”.
Other analysts were less pessimistic. “It’s a somewhat confusing situation right now in China,” said Garrick Hileman, economic historian at the London School of Economics. “We’re still waiting for an official announcement.”
But he added, “A bank ban won’t be the end of bitcoin in China. The exchanges have already demonstrated creative ways around banking restrictions.”
Bitcoin activities like mining, the process of generating the currency by solving complicated math problems, can continue in China, he said, but in terms of exchanges, “the bitcoin story in China, at least in the near-term, is over,” Mr. Kapron added.
BTC38 in a statement on its website late Wednesday said it “will comply strictly with the central bank’s directive and rules,” although it said yuan withdrawals and deposits in the virtual currency would continue.
Global bitcoin prices edged lower by roughly 3% since the initial adjustments by Chinese exchanges Wednesday evening, according to CoinDesk’s bitcoin price index, continuing a decline from last week when Chinese media reported the regulatory shift.
Still, a number of players appeared resistant to making adjustments and several exchanges said they hadn’t received any notice by the central bank or banks they work with.
BTC China spokesman Kenneth Ling said it hasn’t received any notification from any banks. He declined to comment on what steps the exchange would take, but said yuan withdrawals were continuing as normal.
Beijing-based exchanges Huobi, OKCoin and BTC Trade said they are discontinuing deposits via third-party payment platforms but are still allowing transfers through banks. In an attempt to ease investor worries, Huobi and OKCoin said they wouldn’t stop yuan withdrawals.
BTC Trade was another player that said it hadn’t received any notice of the central bank directive. It added that investors should be “cautious” amid recent price volatility.
Regulators here are thought to be clamping down on bitcoin in order to maintain financial stability and protect retail investors, many of whom have been trading bitcoin for speculative purposes amid few other investment options.
More recently, concerns have grown over the safety of investors’ money, given The fallout from the collapse of Tokyo-based bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox.
Some Chinese investors said they would stay in the market despite regulatory uncertainty. Shanghai-based investor Ben Lei says he converted some of his holdings into yuan on BTC China, and plans to buy back bitcoin at lower prices amid market pessimism.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
TWO small bitcoin exchanges in China are stopping customer deposits in yuan, suggesting that exchanges are starting to take action after what people familiar with the matter say are a behind-the-scenes order from the central bank for banks and payment companies to close bitcoin trading accounts.
The Wall Street Journal reported this week that accounts must be shut down by April 15, according to these people.
One of the two exchanges, Shenzhen-based BTC38, is discontinuing bank transfers, saying it has received news of the central bank’s intentions from banks and third-party platforms.
The other, Shanghai-based FXBTC, is ending deposits effectively now and suspending bank-card withdrawals on Sunday, saying it has received phone calls from several banks urging it to cancel accounts as soon as possible.
The exchanges are less well-known than BTC China, Huobi and OKCoin — three of the most commonly used platforms by local investors — but their announcements is an indication how murky regulatory directives are reining in the market without authorities’ outlawing the digital currency completely.
The central bank moved in a similar fashion last December, when local media and industry participants say it ordered third-party payment platforms to stop working with bitcoin exchanges at a closed-door meeting, but stopped short of addressing the exchanges directly.
The only public announcement by the central bank was earlier that month when it barred financial institutions from dealing with bitcoin, but said people could buy and sell the virtual currency at their own risk.
“There’s not much left for the exchanges if buying and selling bitcoins isn’t really feasible due to funding restrictions,” said Zennon Kapron, founder of Shanghai-based consultancy Kapronasia. “In the West, some exchanges provide merchant services,” he said, “but that hasn’t really developed in China.”.
Other analysts were less pessimistic. “It’s a somewhat confusing situation right now in China,” said Garrick Hileman, economic historian at the London School of Economics. “We’re still waiting for an official announcement.”
But he added, “A bank ban won’t be the end of bitcoin in China. The exchanges have already demonstrated creative ways around banking restrictions.”
Bitcoin activities like mining, the process of generating the currency by solving complicated math problems, can continue in China, he said, but in terms of exchanges, “the bitcoin story in China, at least in the near-term, is over,” Mr. Kapron added.
BTC38 in a statement on its website late Wednesday said it “will comply strictly with the central bank’s directive and rules,” although it said yuan withdrawals and deposits in the virtual currency would continue.
Global bitcoin prices edged lower by roughly 3% since the initial adjustments by Chinese exchanges Wednesday evening, according to CoinDesk’s bitcoin price index, continuing a decline from last week when Chinese media reported the regulatory shift.
Still, a number of players appeared resistant to making adjustments and several exchanges said they hadn’t received any notice by the central bank or banks they work with.
BTC China spokesman Kenneth Ling said it hasn’t received any notification from any banks. He declined to comment on what steps the exchange would take, but said yuan withdrawals were continuing as normal.
Beijing-based exchanges Huobi, OKCoin and BTC Trade said they are discontinuing deposits via third-party payment platforms but are still allowing transfers through banks. In an attempt to ease investor worries, Huobi and OKCoin said they wouldn’t stop yuan withdrawals.
BTC Trade was another player that said it hadn’t received any notice of the central bank directive. It added that investors should be “cautious” amid recent price volatility.
Regulators here are thought to be clamping down on bitcoin in order to maintain financial stability and protect retail investors, many of whom have been trading bitcoin for speculative purposes amid few other investment options.
More recently, concerns have grown over the safety of investors’ money, given The fallout from the collapse of Tokyo-based bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox.
Some Chinese investors said they would stay in the market despite regulatory uncertainty. Shanghai-based investor Ben Lei says he converted some of his holdings into yuan on BTC China, and plans to buy back bitcoin at lower prices amid market pessimism.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
LOL. Even Central Bankers admit bitcoin is destroying them publicly:
Federal Reserve official warns bitcoin threatens central banks
...And that guy used to agree with Paul Krugman on the issue! So lulzy....
No real currency ever started as the unit of account. It will take time, and all serious bitcoiners have said so from the start. Again, check back with bitcoin in 2017 or so... Not that there aren't dozens of sites (including my own business) that deal exclusively in bitcoin already.
Just remittances? That's pathetic. Read my list in the response to _poto_ above.
Then WTF are you cluttering up the conversation for with your ad hom attacks and other foolishness?
I've said since bitcoin was $6 that it's a long-term play. More recently I've said the time to cashout is somewhere in or after 2017. Literally, what the fuck else do I have to say on that small, uninteresting subject?
Bitcoin is changing the geopolitics of the planet and you guys are only interested in making a quick buck. /yawn.
Satoshi was a damn genius... The situation has often been compared to a time traveller coming back to give us future money.
And how does one crush math with power?
You're right. But truth needs no enforcement. Math needs no enforcement. These things exists with or without guns pointed at them.
What you think anarchism and cyberpunks are (actually I prefer cypherpunks) is a lie given to you thru propaganda by their enemy. There is no organized revolution brewing... Just the spread of truth, like wikileaks and bittorrent.
Govs haven't been able to stop those, have they?
@ Luke:
You're mixing up again. You say you deal with BTC exclusively in your business. Kudos. How do you define the price? 1 BTC per unit no matter BTC is at $400 or $800? Would you mind naming a business that sets prices in BTC and not $ -> BTC?
Moreover, what exactly do you use BTC for except sending <insert currency of your choice> or receiving funds in the currency? To get BTC? Sure, but again, the amount is defined in a different currency. A BTC is worth what it's traded at in the exchanges, not X amount of Bananas.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open for becoming positive towards BTC, just the way you reply to concerns about BTC isn't really convincing.
You're mixing up again. You say you deal with BTC exclusively in your business. Kudos. How do you define the price? 1 BTC per unit no matter BTC is at $400 or $800? Would you mind naming a business that sets prices in BTC and not $ -> BTC?
Moreover, what exactly do you use BTC for except sending <insert currency of your choice> or receiving funds in the currency? To get BTC? Sure, but again, the amount is defined in a different currency. A BTC is worth what it's traded at in the exchanges, not X amount of Bananas.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open for becoming positive towards BTC, just the way you reply to concerns about BTC isn't really convincing.
By throwing mathematicians in prison and seizing their property...
Neither wikileaks nor bittorent are trying to interact/cooperate with the systems they are threatening. They are purely antagonistic.
However with bitcoin you have to interface with actual financial/retail systems and that's where the vulnerability is. Banks and merchants are not going to risk the severe financial and possibly criminal penalties of going against future laws against unregulared currencies.
So the most compelling application for coins will remain transaction processing for criminal enterprises which would make it easier to pass laws/regulations against them.
My unit of account internally is bitcoin only, but my customers are paying in bitcoin at a set amount of USD. So at the order page they'll see my product sold for $x, payable in bitcoin only. Below the $x is a price in BTC at the time of pageload too.
Setting prices in bitcoin before it stabilizes is stupid, and I'd laugh at them heartily. I don't know any, but one day of course that will change.
I doubt before 2016 though.
I do accounting in it, and I pay for work in it. There are tons of people around who will work for bitcoin, and they'd much rather have bitcoin than the same amount of dollars so it's cheaper to hire them using bitcoin.
Besides the busy job board sites like Coinality, you can find them in meetup groups, facebook groups & pages, here on Wickedfire, and there's even a Job Fair in silicon valley next month that deals exclusively in bitcoin jobs.
That works for a little while, but the truth always gets out. Usually in just a few years.
The strict punishment of Manning didn't stop Snowden, did it? There are always people out there moved to extreme action by the truth...
What cryptoanarchists are doing today can best be summed up by lowering that barrier to entry... With tech like TOR, bitcoin, GPG and bittorrent, pretty much anyone can pretty easily get away with the spreading of truth that even the previous white house administration would be completely shocked about. Prisons around the world are stocked with people who's offenses were simply telling the truth without good encryption... Today they'd have gotten away with their "crimes."
In a generation from now? Everyone will have full access to the truth and of course have access to honest money.
It will literally be impossible to stop anyone in the world from accessing the complete accounting of all major governments. No more black ops funds, no more $600 toilet seats, no more bribes from lobbyists, hell, no more lobbying at all. No more printing like there's no limit... So no more inflation. No more fractional reserve banking of course... And most importantly; no more direct theft of the citizenry by the 100-year old scheme of inflating and taxing income simultaneously.
I can't see how a government can even exist at that point anymore... They'd have to become something pretty simple and honest at that point, which goes against that whole "lets murder 200 Million people each century and enslave the rest" thing. I wouldn't be so against them at that point naturally.
Which gives bitcoin an added advantage.
Just because bitcoin is playing by the rules today doesn't mean it can only exist playing by the rules. Sure, govs can and likely will stop all banking from touching bitcoin exchange someday, (not soon, rulings keep going the other direction in fact) but bitcoin can exist & work perfectly without any fiat touching the system in any way. You can always turn your labor into bitcoins, and pay for many real-world items in bitcoins. Who really needs fiat at all?
At it's core, it doesn't need to play by the rules one bit more than bittorrent does. It's all the same P2P concept, and millions of people have copies of the blockchain worldwide... It's even more robust than bittorrent from a tech view in fact.
I don't agree with this at all, mainly because there is more than one country out there, but even if I did, so what?
This statement flies in the face of the 2nd largest economy on earth. The black, grey, & blue markets, collectively known as 'System D.'
Totally "illegal." Totally not reported. Almost totally unbanked, too.
It's 2nd largest economy by volume but first in terms of people. Worldwide, the amount of cash transacted without any kind of reporting is estimated to be larger than the national economies of Russia, China, or any other economy but the USD, and it is already comprised of the majority of the inhabitants of planet earth.
Once they've discovered bitcoin, cash will be a useless relic to them.
Once enough of them are transacting in bitcoin, the market cap will be far higher than it is today. Volumes will be so high that people of the future will only be able to imagine today's bitcoin usage as "pre-release testing."
I shouldn't have to tell you what that does to the price of a bitcoin, and how eventually deflation is going to make the price of everyday things stabilize in bitcoin, even if the price of a bitcoin itself does not.
With that apparent stabilization, bitcoin becomes useful as a real currency, and threatens most of the economies on earth because its' simply more desirable than their local currency in every single way.
Technically there are already economies like Argentina and Venezuela that see bitcoin as more stable than their local money. The number of these economic hotspots will simply keep growing until bitcoin totally replaces a national currency, and when that country starts becoming prosperous, it'll only be a few short years until complete worldwide domination.
No clue on when and which country, of course. It's still inevitable because of the unique properties and incentive structures driving bitcoin.
You can check differents price projection of Bitcoin following adoption by a retailer like amazon.
It will set it at 5000 usd according to forecast and give a boost to amazon stock as it would increase amazon margin by lowering visa transaction card.
Also i invite you to read this : 10 professional bitcoin price predictions for 2014 | Crypt.la
Luke,
Hasn't anybody told you you are a nut?
Think about it, because you are kind of beyond "normal".
Not in a good way, like above average, just special.
Hasn't anybody told you you are a nut?
Think about it, because you are kind of beyond "normal".
Not in a good way, like above average, just special.
What a fantastic argument! Did you stay up all night thinking about that deep response to counter my point? If so, it was well worth the wait.
I feel humbled and special to bathe in your vast intelligence. Please, share more of this wisdom with us, don't hold back! :bowdown:
The French Food Retailer Monoprix want to accept Bitcoin before the end of the year in their store :
Monoprix envisage d?accepter les bitcoins dès cette année, Actualités
Monoprix envisage d?accepter les bitcoins dès cette année, Actualités
Luke,
Making retorts you think are sharp is fine, you are entitled to your view of the world.
Have you looked at bitcoin charts? The trend doesn't seem to support holding long.
Unless it's a spiritual thing, rather than an investing thing.
Making retorts you think are sharp is fine, you are entitled to your view of the world.
Have you looked at bitcoin charts? The trend doesn't seem to support holding long.
Unless it's a spiritual thing, rather than an investing thing.
It's neither, it's a logic thing.
I know that bitcoin will survive and prosper for the exact same reasons that many people knew the internet would survive & prosper in 1991. It's an uncanny similarity between the two fledgling technologies, but the differences are all in bitcoin's favor. The incentives are far stronger for adoption of bitcoin than they ever were with the web.
We obviously have vast differences in the concept of logic and it's application in the real world.
Could you have used logic to come to the conclusion that the internet would likely stick around and even grow in the year 1991?
I did.