Seal Team 6 Dead

[REIMktg]

Why is it $5 in Canada (one of the top oil producing nations)? Why is it $8 to $10 in much of Europe?

because it is a commodity that is traded on world markets.

According to the CIA and the terrorists themselves, the main reason why they wanted to attack the US was because of the US involvement in other countries. This has been repeatedly pointed out here and elsewhere, but cognitive dissonance is a heckuva thing.

You are correct. They want to kill us because of our involvement in other countries. Nothing I said contradicts that. Read it again:

2. So if we did not kill and dismantle those that want to kill us in their country they would just sit back and not plan to kill us in ours? That really did not work out well in the past, hence what started this whole program.

The problem is that we want our oil. Yes, our oil. They made contracts with us, we showed them the value of oil and showed them how to drill it etc - our companies, our technology, out intellect. They agreed. They then broke the contracts and stole everything. Maybe we should have bombed their land back to sand back then and somehow taken back the intellectual property we gave them - but we did not - we just allowed them to screw us and here we are - getting bombed because we are involved in countries that at one time wanted us and now decided to break all the rules.

I am somewhat trolling you as an instigator because in the end if they want us not to be involved then you need to take everything away - OBL cannot keep his billions that we allowed him to have and he made from us and then tell us to get out at the end of a gun. This is BS.

Let's not even begin to discuss human rights...... Islam, the fastest growing [forced] religion in the world. Kill all that get in their way, kill the Jew and then the Christian, its Allah's way. How dare they step foot on our land and interfere with our subjugation of the population, with our destruction of women, etc.

 

[REIMktg]

1. I don't know about the gas question but it's the only thing that makes sense. We fucking invaded Iraq after 9/11 but Iraq didn't even fucking attack us, so WTF were we doing there? If anything we should have gone into S.A.

2. You really think us going into Afghanistan and Iraq has made us any safer? Come on bro.


I'm 100x more worried about what my own government is doing to me or what they may do to me than any fucking terrorist. I've never walked down the road or driven down the road and thought "fuck, I hope a terrorist doesn't get me". I have, however, said "shit, I hope this cop doesn't fucking cornhole me or harass the shit out of me" or "fuck, I hope the IRS doesn't anal fist me this year".

I know you must know these answers. I do believe that the terrorist organizations focused their efforts on killing us in those countries rather than in the US because OBL said that those wars had to be won and that they were the true front lines.

Had the terrorists been living in safety they would have had much more time to plan attacks on US Soil - but instead they are looking up for the next predator drone and they do not have as much time to attack us - yes we are safer.

You are right - the feds and local cops etc can be and are a real problem a lot of the time, prosecutorial abuse etc - a real problem. But had we not fought those wars and moved the front lines to the middle east we would have been attacked again and again, our economy would have lost trillions and be in worse shape that we are today, and we still would have went to war. War was inevitable - like I said before they were at war with us long before we went to war with them.

 

[-joe-]

I have to be honest and sort of agree with some of the guys in this thread, they are trained killers. They are there because they want to be there. They haven't been drafted and no matter how you look at it this isn't fucking WW2 or some war where they are actually DEFENDING our country or someone who needs defending. If we really gave a fuck about human suffering we would go in and free North Koreans, but North Koreans have nukes and they have no oil, so fuck the millions of starving slaves and torture going on over there.

These are offensive and political wars, so I would never throw around terms like heroes when talking about them just as I wouldn't throw the term around when talking about police. A lot of these guys are fucking adrenalin junkies and/or people who are prone to violence and simply getting in where they fit in which is fine, but the word hero is thrown around too much.

If China attacked us tomorrow and we had to go to war to defend our country from a standing army who was invading us, I'd call that heroic and noble. Getting paid money to go to another country and kill people voluntary isn't exactly hero status IMO.

Let the negs begin.

P.S. Just so we are clear, I'm not saying soldiers are bad guys and I am not saying there aren't real heroes in our armed forces. I'm just saying the blind following and respect of any dickhead with a uniform on is slightly disturbing to me.

+rep.

1. If we were taking the oil why is gas at $4?

Because you're taking the oil.

$4 is pretty low for a country that doesn't have that much oil of its own. Over here, it's £1.40 ($2.30) per litre. I.e. $8.70 a gallon.

 

[REIMktg]

Because you're taking the oil.

$4 is pretty low for a country that doesn't have that much oil of its own. Over here, it's £1.40 ($2.30) per litre. I.e. $8.70 a gallon.

That's because your gov't is screwing you. Gas was $1.86 in 2008 if I remember correctly.

Besides the US has plenty of oil and other energy resources (combined energy resources at the top of the world in reserves) - we just do not drill it/ use it because the US is trying to deplete the rest of the world first and then have a corner on the market.

 

[teck112]

To answer the gas price argument.

Gas Prices Around the World: Cheaper Than Water and $10 a Gallon - Derek Thompson - Business - The Atlantic

In Europe taxes are high to fund public transport systems. The US enjoys relatively low taxes on gasoline.

 

[Moxie]

You are correct. They want to kill us because of our involvement in other countries. Nothing I said contradicts that. Read it again:

I should have specified military involvement.

The problem is that we want our oil. Yes, our oil. They made contracts with us, we showed them the value of oil and showed them how to drill it etc - our companies, our technology, out intellect. They agreed.

The same could probably be said for Mexico and many other countries.

They then broke the contracts and stole everything.

I honestly have no idea what this refers to. Osama's homeland of Saudi Arabia is the country that they mentioned being upset that the US had military bases in. In case you forgot, we still do lots of business with them.

I am somewhat trolling you as an instigator because in the end if they want us not to be involved then you need to take everything away - OBL cannot keep his billions that we allowed him to have and he made from us and then tell us to get out at the end of a gun. This is BS.

California can do business with you without also setting up a state police command center in your yard. The latter is more likely to upset anti-government radicals in your neighborhood.

Let's not even begin to discuss human rights...... Islam, the fastest growing [forced] religion in the world. Kill all that get in their way, kill the Jew and then the Christian, its Allah's way. How dare they step foot on our land and interfere with our subjugation of the population, with our destruction of women, etc.

Has the US military presence in Saudi Arabia changed their laws at all?

 

[JamesH]

Let the negs begin.

P.S. Just so we are clear, I'm not saying soldiers are bad guys and I am not saying there aren't real heroes in our armed forces. I'm just saying the blind following and respect of any dickhead with a uniform on is slightly disturbing to me.

I disagree, it sure does sound like you're saying soldiers are bad guys. These guys would be the same heros to fight if China were to invade or whatever the scenario is. I know plenty of people who went into the armed forces with the intention to defend our country. All I'm saying is it's hard for me to not call these guys heros because they're doing something that I would never consider. We may need these adderlin junky meat heads to defend our country in a serious time of need.

Let the negs begin.

 

[ly2 from WF]

I know you must know these answers. I do believe that the terrorist organizations focused their efforts on killing us in those countries rather than in the US because OBL said that those wars had to be won and that they were the true front lines.

Had the terrorists been living in safety they would have had much more time to plan attacks on US Soil - but instead they are looking up for the next predator drone and they do not have as much time to attack us - yes we are safer.

You are right - the feds and local cops etc can be and are a real problem a lot of the time, prosecutorial abuse etc - a real problem. But had we not fought those wars and moved the front lines to the middle east we would have been attacked again and again, our economy would have lost trillions and be in worse shape that we are today, and we still would have went to war. War was inevitable - like I said before they were at war with us long before we went to war with them.

Yea maybe, but you can't go around occupying nations just in the hopes of maybe will be able to keep a terrorist attack form happening, it is not sustainable. We spend obscene amounts of money on pointless military shit, our military is like the new welfare for troops and corporations who sells their shit to the military.

I dunno, whatever fuck it. This country is going down the shitter anyway, I honestly doubt we will be around much longer and if we are we definitely aren't going to be the leader of the world.

Our government is shit and 90% our citizens are literally retarded.

 

[ly2 from WF]

I disagree, it sure does sound like you're saying soldiers are bad guys. These guys would be the same heros to fight if China were to invade or whatever the scenario is. I know plenty of people who went into the armed forces with the intention to defend our country. All I'm saying is it's hard for me to not call these guys heros because they're doing something that I would never consider. We may need these adderlin junky meat heads to defend our country in a serious time of need.

Let the negs begin.

I'm not saying they're bad guys, I'm just saying that simply because someone takes a JOB in the military doesn't make them a good person. I see the military the same as I see cops, they are just normal people doing jobs and a pretty large number of them have some semi-serious mental issues. Normal people don't voluntarily signup to kill people or become cops, know what I mean?

There are fucking great cops out there and there are great men in the military, but you can't just hand out blind love and respect for someone because they have a uniform on, it's insane. At the end of the day they are government workers doing what the government orders them to do.

I don't hate the military and I'm definitely no a leftie as most people on here know. But I also don't give auto-respect to anyone, including government workers in special little uniforms and badges.

 

[JamesH]

Word, might of misunderstood you a bit. That's another way to look at it, and I see what ya mean.

 

[REIMktg]

I honestly have no idea what this refers to. Osama's homeland of Saudi Arabia is the country that they mentioned being upset that the US had military bases in. In case you forgot, we still do lots of business with them.

Do business with them? They owe their prosperity to Chevron and Texaco. These companies went in, spent all the money on research and finding oil, educated the population, hired their people, building infrastructure etc . It was these companies and the Americans behind them that created the wealth. The Saudis threatened nationalization and slowly stole the companies and made them Saudi owned.

By the way it is not up to renegade citizens like OBL to kill US citizens for being on Saudi soil. They should overthrow the Saudi gov't. We are there because they allow us to be there. Why didn't he attack the Saudi gov't? What a hypocrite. He obviously was doing more than retaliating for our presence he was motivated by anti-western views.

California can do business with you without also setting up a state police command center in your yard. The latter is more likely to upset anti-government radicals in your neighborhood.

By the way - if we were not there then Iraq would have rolled right through to SA in 1991. That is why we showed up - to protect SA from Iraq. Once again we are there at the request of the Saudi gov't.

Has the US military presence in Saudi Arabia changed their laws at all?

No because we are not allowed to interfere. They can abuse their women all they want without our interference. What a great deal for the women of SA. Good thing the big bad evil Americans are not spreading human rights.

 

[mr doodles70]

I have to be honest and sort of agree with some of the guys in this thread, they are trained killers. They are there because they want to be there. They haven't been drafted and no matter how you look at it this isn't fucking WW2 or some war where they are actually DEFENDING our country or someone who needs defending. If we really gave a fuck about human suffering we would go in and free North Koreans, but North Koreans have nukes and they have no oil, so fuck the millions of starving slaves and torture going on over there.

These are offensive and political wars, so I would never throw around terms like heroes when talking about them just as I wouldn't throw the term around when talking about police. A lot of these guys are fucking adrenalin junkies and/or people who are prone to violence and simply getting in where they fit in which is fine, but the word hero is thrown around too much.

If China attacked us tomorrow and we had to go to war to defend our country from a standing army who was invading us, I'd call that heroic and noble. Getting paid money to go to another country and kill people voluntary isn't exactly hero status IMO.

Let the negs begin.

P.S. Just so we are clear, I'm not saying soldiers are bad guys and I am not saying there aren't real heroes in our armed forces. I'm just saying the blind following and respect of any dickhead with a uniform on is slightly disturbing to me.

agreed for the most part. what bothered me going back to the US around 4th of july was how much blind love our troops get on the fourth of july and how much overt dicksucking goes into praising these guys....as if fighting wars was the most american goddamn thing of all time...instead of you know getting all sappy about our road builders/teachers/firefighters (many of whom are obviously not praiseworthy) we get all sappy about the killers who signed up to fight in stupid fucking wars or get paid by the government to train and do nothing for 20 years in our german/japanese or our 700 other bases spread throughout the world.

if i wouldn't feel proud of myself for fighting in these wars, i don't see why i should worship or worry about those who do.

that said, some of them could be 'heroes' if i felt their fighting were actually making us safer/richer. it sucks when any of them die.

 

[jenzkc]

Our government is shit and 90% our citizens are literally retarded.

I agree.

 

[mattseh]

Why is it $5 in Canada (one of the top oil producing nations)? Why is it $8 to $10 in much of Europe?

TAXES

 

[Scalped]

Has WW3 started? oops!

These fuking middle east countries messing with our brave soldiers, who the fuck do they think they are for shooting down a chinook with so many brave soldiers fighting for our freedom and protecting us from rag heads?!

Who the fuck do they think they are?! Killing our brave men in their own countries! All we are doing is exporting their drugs and oil! And they do this to us? Kill our soldiers?

Shame on all you mohameds out there!

/sarcasm

 

[Scalped]

that said, some of them could be 'heroes' if i felt their fighting were actually making us safer/richer. it sucks when any of them die.

Those who stand against this nonsense from governments and other corporate entities, be it in US or other countries. These are the real heroes.

Those who get up every morning and productively give to society, investigation, research, teaching,...these are the real heroes.

Yet as irrational as it is, most muppets praise "patriotism/queen and country/fight on terror" as the real heroes. All i can say to these people is:

"You need to realize how fucking stupid you are, and how much these manipulators dont give a fuck about you. Yes, that includes your beloved country rulers."​

Predictably Irrational. thats what most are. This will never change and thats why things will never change unless these individuals realize whats around them.

 

[Moxie]

Do business with them? They owe their prosperity to Chevron and Texaco. These companies went in, spent all the money on research and finding oil, educated the population, hired their people, building infrastructure etc . It was these companies and the Americans behind them that created the wealth. The Saudis threatened nationalization and slowly stole the companies and made them Saudi owned.

Does Saudi Arabia own Chevron or Texaco? I'm sure nobody at these companies felt that they would remain 100% in charge of Saudi oil operations for eternity.

Canada invented hockey and still develops most of the players, but most teams are owned by the USA. Poor Canada.

By the way it is not up to renegade citizens like OBL to kill US citizens for being on Saudi soil. They should overthrow the Saudi gov't. We are there because they allow us to be there. Why didn't he attack the Saudi gov't? What a hypocrite. He obviously was doing more than retaliating for our presence he was motivated by anti-western views.

Bin Laden met with King Fahd, and Saudi Defense Minister Sultan, telling them not to depend on non-Muslim assistance from the United States and others, offering to help defend Saudi Arabia with his mujahideen. Bin Laden's offer was rebuffed, and after the Saudi monarchy invited the deployment of U.S. troops in Saudi territory,[75] Bin Laden publicly denounced Saudi Arabia's dependence on the U.S. military. Bin Laden believed the presence of foreign troops in the "land of the two mosques" (Mecca and Medina) profaned sacred soil. Bin Laden's criticism of the Saudi monarchy led that government to attempt to silence him...

Bin Laden continued to speak publicly against the Saudi government for harboring American troops, for which the Saudis banished him. He went to live in exile in Sudan.

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Suspect Device]

Meh... I still love it how most of the countries that are involved in today's wars have "Ministry of Defense".

I'm from Europe, my country was involved in Iraq, and still is in A-Stan. Fuck that shit. It's pure occupation in the interest of the few wealthy. And those guys who serve there, well to me, almost none of them are heroes, "freedom fighter", mehh... During WW2 people of Nazi Germany also considered their soldiers as "heroes", same as US did theirs...

Then again, I serve in the National Guard of my country, it's for the sake to support my local community in bad times - disasters, wild fires, etc. And if someone will try to walk in my land with an uniform and a weapon, I'll be one of the first who will aim at him, but I will never go and invade someone's else home/land, fuck that shit.

Looking at US Army statistics, it is kinda fucked up for the National Guard in US. Half of the soldiers who are deployed in Middle East are from the Guard, lol. National Guard "guarding" the freedom of America in Middle East, yeah...

 

[BeerNuts]

The blind love and respect that the masses give to soliders is because they are stupid and dont know any better. Most americans believe 100% that if we were not over there fighting these random guys that every day would be 9/11. Thats what the government told them and thats what the news tells them.

 

[REIMktg]

I'm from Europe, my country was involved in Iraq, and still is in A-Stan. Fuck that shit. It's pure occupation in the interest of the few wealthy.

Really? Are you beating the military industrial complex drum or is this some other conspiracy?

And those guys who serve there, well to me, almost none of them are heroes, "freedom fighter", mehh... During WW2 people of Nazi Germany also considered their soldiers as "heroes", same as US did theirs...

I suppose you would prefer to have had Hitler win? I believe the soldiers were indeed "freedom fighters" - they were fighting for freedom - except maybe the Russian soldiers - but even they were fighting for a freedom from Germany. Some were heroes in the actions they took and some were not. The hero is relative to how they acted as soldiers.

Then again, I serve in the National Guard of my country, it's for the sake to support my local community in bad times - disasters, wild fires, etc. And if someone will try to walk in my land with an uniform and a weapon, I'll be one of the first who will aim at him, but I will never go and invade someone's else home/land, fuck that shit.

Looking at US Army statistics, it is kinda fucked up for the National Guard in US. Half of the soldiers who are deployed in Middle East are from the Guard, lol. National Guard "guarding" the freedom of America in Middle East, yeah...

Anyone that joined the National Guard in the US post 2001 would have known what they were expected to do.

The blind love and respect that the masses give to soliders is because they are stupid and dont know any better. Most americans believe 100% that if we were not over there fighting these random guys that every day would be 9/11. Thats what the government told them and thats what the news tells them.

blind love and respect for soldiers is stupid - as is all the goodwill we afford teachers, policeman, and firefighters.

It is true that if we were not over there fighting and keeping the terrorist organizations busy that we would be fighting them in the US. At $1 trillion per terrorist attack it is not a fear of everyday terror - it is a fear of a few terror attacks over the past 10 years - or you think that 2001 was the end all?

OBL himself, since everyone likes to quote him, said that the wars were the front lines for his movement and that they had to beat the US in the wars or all would be lost. Therefore the focus was on beating the US in the war zones, not on attacks on US soil. That would have been different had their not been 2 wars.

You think you know better because you are not part of the masses? We are all part of the "masses" in one way or another. Even the wise ones such as yourself are useful to those that pull the strings. Do not fool yourself - everyone has their place - even a "Winston" was allowed to live.