Seal Team 6 Dead

[REIMktg]

Thank you professor. I make no claims to have a handle on the problem, but I will continue to side with the "intelligent" majority in this case...

How does one choose who is intelligent and who is not? By those that agree with you?

after reviewing what you/and others like you are bringing to the table here in terms of longterm productivity and disregard (call it what you want, what you are doing IS disregarding human lives WITH your support/ideas...just like the people we want to kill)human lives lost while we are supposedly chasing down ghosts in caves.

What I "bring to the table as far as long term productivity?" - what does that mean?

How am I disregarding human lives. I do not believe the war should be fought like it is at all - I never said I did. What are you talking about?

In fact I doubt I would have gone to war in the first place - but all my ideas are internationally illegal so an internationally legal war was probably the only option.

What is your elite academic and real-life experience/background that allowed you to see through the "majority's lies" that I have apparently been taught and been duped by? You are HONESTLY now coming with THAT angle? Good lord ya'll wildin in here...School of Hard Knocks, etc?

Just insight of age and experience - and who said that you are the majority? HuffPost? Do not point to polls that are worded one way or another. Everyone wants the troops to be safe and to come home - no kidding. I would like them here also.... but how many thousands will be dead when we leave? What happens in a power vacuum? What do you think will happen? None oif this has been handled correctly - but now what? Cut and Run so all of those with purple fingers can be killed?

Let me know where I can sign up for the "REAL WORLD" institution that you hopefully intend to create. This way, you can educate all of us youngsters that don't know nothin about nothin about the U S of A. I don't want to be duped anymore sir...show me the way...show me the light.

More crap rhetoric. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. You simply do not have one of your own. You have no answers. You have no idea what we should have done on 9/12. It is easy to tear down an idea or course of action. The course we took was not perfect - you think you and your 50 brilliant people could have done better? How?

Bringing our troops home is not THE answer, it is part of the larger answer in the opinion of the vast majority of Americans...and I'd say it is the opinion of the rest of the civilized world. I love how, just because something is clearly not the entire solution, that it should just be ruled out? Shortsighted much? You are the simplistic one my friend, and your words here show us all that pretty clearly.

So you are ready to cut and run and leave all of those that helped us in this war to be killed? That's what will happen. All of them - dead. That's what happens when you desert those that believed in the US and its ideals. Did you see the videos when the Iranians tied the hands of the protestors and pushed them off a 20 foot wall down onto rocks below. Helpless. That's what will happen to every Iraqi that ever wanted freedom. They will be dead. Have you even thought about that?

Let me go ahead and use your "shortsighted" and literally DUMB debate tactics against you below:

Gee man, you keep referring to the delta smelts and environmentalism...you're just all over the place.

^^^That type of stuff usually comes out of the mouths of people that can't fathom/entertain more than one idea at the same time...and if that idea is not THE answer...well then it is worth NOTHING then...right? LOL

I was on topic. You said the money could be put to work on problems at home - I simply was pointing out that you are wrong. The money will be squandered and wasted and nothing good will come of it - I was pointing out that the GOV't has no concern for efficiency or solving problems. The reason I used the smelt because it is a real world tangible example of how we are really allowing others worldwide to die and creating international enemies. Once again you have failed to show any depth in your insight.

I would not normally be so harsh - but you have slung many arrows at my intelligence. Granted I called you a student and struck out at your logic - I am sorry if you took it personally, but do not think I am some bitter clinger that is not well rounded. Like I said - I used to argue like you - with appeals to "every other civilized nation" or every other "industrialized democracy" its all the same nonsense.

 

[jsherloc]

Welp good night to you sir and good luck on convincing the rest of us intelligent folk to continue on in this path of madness. You don't think you would have us gone to war if it were up to you, but yet you believe we are doing long term good and increasing our safety and the safety of world citizens? Interesting position.

Also, I am more concerned about how many hundreds of thousands will die if we don't leave those places soon. But I am certainly scared for those citizens as well, and the only way to prevent situations like this from happening in the future (your state funded terrorism) is with education and SWIFT elimination of INDIVIDUAL TARGETS (as opposed to the whole whack a duck, insert corrupt leadership, repeat - thing we got going on currently around the world).

Also, you already stated in this thread that ALL muslims, while they certainly do not want to kill us, will fall back on their holy book to kill the christians jews etc. You have said yourself that you personally believe that when push comes to shove, ALL muslims would do away with christians, jews, etc. That is laughable at best. Seriously good stuff.

I am going to go ahead and confidently say that you have ZERO authority/legitimacy here or in the real world to "lecture" others on the way of the world with truly IGNORANT positions like that (all because you believe muslim leaders do not speak out enough?) So muslim leaders don't speak out enough against extremist islamic terrorist actions = all muslims around the world when push comes to shove will "side" with their holy book and want to do away with "non believers", jihad, etc...? You honestly believe that? If you do, then I don't think many would consider you "well rounded" from a "cultured/well traveled" perspective...by any means.

Thank you for taking the time to connect the dots on the smelt thing. Yeah I agree, we've got a whole lot of money being funneled into places to kill people...but not a whole lot being funneled into places where it counts. We do a pretty bad job at allocating what little resources we have, on all sides of the political spectrum. But, for most intelligent Americans, they realize that we really could put some of the money we are spending on the "war on terror" to better use here at home...and by god man some of that money or those resources will probably be SQUANDERED. so we should just take the option off the table? Government just don't work folks and they screw up, we can no longer work on improving our resource allocation, so we may as well blow stuff up overseas. You are seriously extremely shortsighted in your thinking.

So let me make sure I follow you now, you are telling me that the smelt thing is honestly even SOMEWHAT comparable/similar (in terms of making world enemies) to our last decade of the War on Terror? Really? Hmmm...

 

[jsherloc]

Also, do you have any political aspirations so that we the rest of us bright minds can escape the "nonsense" with you?

And yes, I am also confident in suggesting at this point in time that THE MAJORITY of Americans want our troops home yesterday and PULLED OUT COMPLETELY from these messes. I don't need "bias polls" to understand everyday American sentiment. We're living it. People will certainly suffer when we leave, but perhaps not giving money to certain people and even straight up eliminating certain targeted people MIGHT be a better plan than constant occupation and trying to "bend wills" and "patrol the world".

The everyday citizens of these countries want the leadership gone. We end up replacing corrupt with corrupt and the cycle continues...in the name of OUR SAFETY and our way of life. We are not helping them, we are exploiting them because it is literally not SUSTAINABLE. what do you not understand about that? These everyday citizens of these terrorist states need to be empowered with education, not occupation.

Take out the leaders, help the people become democratic...we can do all of this without occupying entire countries (mossad is pretty good at being quick and "clean" for instance). We are the best military in the world, we have the capabilities and a lot of the intelligence at this point. You don't think there is some profiteering/exploitation going on behind the scenes? You truly believe that this whole war on terror thing is now really JUST about protecting American freedoms and our safety?

So, if you used to appeal to civilized nations and democracy and what not during your debates, what made you change course? What do you appeal to now? (let me guess: "Are you listening?! They want to KILL US!, something along the lines of that?)

 

[REIMktg]

1. I can claim we are doing something that will benefit us in the long term (in juxtaposition to doing nothing) and yet still believe it is not the course of action that would give us a maximum benefit. Those are consistent.

2. How do you plan to educate people in a country that does not want you there? When you support Israel, a country they feel does not have a right to exist. How do you think this is going to happen?

3. I never said all Muslims will fall back on their religion and kill - but they may simply not stand up in opposition. There is a fundamental flaw in their religion that needs to be fixed. Christians have had a flawed history, they fixed it. Now crazy Christians are ostracized and spoken against by all mainstream leaders. For the everyday Muslims - they may not actually kill us personally but the silence from their leaders is deafening. Islam is at its core and in its current interpretation is an extremist religion that advocates forcible conversion and the death of the opposition. You may laugh at the point - but it does not make it any less real or true. That Muslim friend of yours may not kill you but then again if his religion were on one side and you on the other - which would he pick? Would he defend you or put his head in the sand?

4. If Muslims do not believe in their religion, as you claim is laughable, then why are they Muslim? I mean you really think that they do not believe in their religion? You must think they are not smart, in fact you seem to always imply in your posts that Muslims have less reason than Westerners. It is interesting how you feel that when push comes to shove they will not follow their religion. Why would you believe that?

5. My point is that the current war on terror is likely to have kept us from being attacked in a major way for the past 10 years. See post 83 on this thread. You are making a resource allocation argument and I have made mine. One attack, just one, blows your argument out of the water completely.

6. Once again the smelt thing was related to your points on resource allocation. I will tell you that people have died because we are saving the smelt. Simple economics. Lower food production and no work for the legal immigrant farm workers has led to higher worldwide food prices (pushing borderline people over the tipping point to starvation) and those workers cannot afford to feed and take care of their families in South America. Those families therefore starve, cannot afford health care, or go into drugs/prostitution etc. Just for the stupid Delta Smelt. It has nothing to do with the war on terror - but does have something to do with resource allocation.

 

[REIMktg]

crap man - another post? You did this while I was typing the other one. This is ceasing to be fun - we just disagree.

Also, do you have any political aspirations so that we the rest of us bright minds can escape the "nonsense" with you?

I do not know how I got into this whole discussion - just wanted to counter some of the nonsense I see everyday. Everyone is a critic and no one has a solution - so they tear down what others have tried.

And yes, I am also confident in suggesting at this point in time that THE MAJORITY of Americans want our troops home yesterday and PULLED OUT COMPLETELY from these messes. I don't need "bias polls" to understand everyday American sentiment. We're living it.

Now you have a disregard for human life. It is not a choice any more - we cannot pull out now. That would kill more people than you can imagine.

People will certainly suffer when we leave, but perhaps not giving money to certain people and even straight up eliminating certain targeted people MIGHT be a better plan than constant occupation and trying to "bend wills" and "patrol the world".

"people will certainly suffer" - is that even real to you? You are advocating deserting the people that believed in us.

The everyday citizens of these countries want the leadership gone. We end up replacing corrupt with corrupt and the cycle continues...in the name of OUR SAFETY and our way of life. We are not helping them, we are exploiting them because it is literally not SUSTAINABLE. what do you not understand about that? These everyday citizens of these terrorist states need to be empowered with education, not occupation.

You cannot do that until you change the power structure. They are not educated because of their rulers - not because the US keeps them as subjects. How do you propose we do the above? How? How? How? You think they will allow schools to teach about human rights and freedom? About anything other than concepts that support the regime in power?

Take out the leaders, help the people become democratic...we can do all of this without occupying entire countries (mossad is pretty good at being quick and "clean" for instance). We are the best military in the world, we have the capabilities and a lot of the intelligence at this point. You don't think there is some profiteering/exploitation going on behind the scenes? You truly believe that this whole war on terror thing is now really JUST about protecting American freedoms and our safety?

You are advocating violating international law. That is not allowed.

Of course there is profits and manipulations.... there will always be these things.

So, if you used to appeal to civilized nations and democracy and what not during your debates, what made you change course? What do you appeal to now? (let me guess: "Are you listening?! They want to KILL US!, something along the lines of that?)

I appeal to reason.
I appeal to reality.
I appeal to history.
I appeal to an understanding of human nature.


You think anyone can be reasoned with, that is not true.
You think your neighbor will not kill you - tell that to the Jews.
You think we can go in and educate people in countries against the will of their leaders.
You think we can swap out leadership in countries legally.
You think that OBL lied when he said the focus was on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan and not on attacks in the US

You want to cut and run and let people die.
You want us to let the war on terror be brought back to US cities.

 

[jsherloc]

1. I can claim we are doing something that will benefit us in the long term (in juxtaposition to doing nothing) and yet still believe it is not the course of action that would give us a maximum benefit. Those are consistent.

The lives lost are consistent too...on all sides. I am looking for some tangible benefits, and so far you are saying that because we have not had another 9/11 here YET, this is proof that what we are doing overseas is benefiting us long term. So, would you then believe that if we maintain on this course, we might logically NEVER have another 9/11 style attack? Or, do you agree that it is inevitable, but we might have "postponed" a similar attack?

2. How do you plan to educate people in a country that does not want you there? When you support Israel, a country they feel does not have a right to exist. How do you think this is going to happen?

If the EVERYDAY CITIZENS genuinely do not want us there, perhaps we should leave then? What reasons would they have to hate us? Religion controls the whackos, but normal folks usually have other reasons as to why they dislike Americans...I wonder what those reasons could be or what they could have to do with?

So, if the EVERYDAY CITIZENS of these countries then come to our country and attack us, we will retaliate with a vengeance. Sound good to you? I am willing to bet it doesn't happen....LIKE EVER.

3. I never said all Muslims will fall back on their religion and kill - but they may simply not stand up in opposition. There is a fundamental flaw in their religion that needs to be fixed. Christians have had a flawed history, they fixed it. Now crazy Christians are ostracized and spoken against by all mainstream leaders. For the everyday Muslims - they may not actually kill us personally but the silence from their leaders is deafening. Islam is at its core and in its current interpretation is an extremist religion that advocates forcible conversion and the death of the opposition. You may laugh at the point - but it does not make it any less real or true. That Muslim friend of yours may not kill you but then again if his religion were on one side and you on the other - which would he pick? Would he defend you or put his head in the sand?

LOL me thinks you really don't know any muslims. Lots of muslim americans died on 9/11, lots of leaders spoke about the threat of religious extremism. I'd agree with you that they need a more vocal voice (s) absolutely, but to try and use that fact to further your assessment on their PERSONAL beliefs is laughable. We continue to alienate muslim americans, I'm not surprised they aren't speaking out much though. By the way, what religious background is the majority of people dying over there? You don't believe that THEY believe this is a serious issue that needs to be battled from the inside starting with education/COMMUNICATION/etc? Get real

4. If Muslims do not believe in their religion, as you claim is laughable, then why are they Muslim? I mean you really think that they do not believe in their religion? You must think they are not smart, in fact you seem to always imply in your posts that Muslims have less reason than Westerners. It is interesting how you feel that when push comes to shove they will not follow their religion. Why would you believe that?

Because I am educated and cultured enough to know that what you speak of is inherently false on every level as it applies to the muslim religion around the world. I think all religion is mostly a "negative" thing, but I am also smart enough to know that EVERY DAY CITIZENS put humanity and commonsense first when making real world decisions, not ancient texts REGARDLESS of their religion.

Do extremists practice this "humanity"? Unfortunately they do not and they should be killed, but us occupying places overseas does not have any longterm "benefits" regarding us eliminating an "idea", regardless of what you would like to believe or whatever makes you sleep better at night. they just move to different countries. it is simply not sustainable.

5. My point is that the current war on terror is likely to have kept us from being attacked in a major way for the past 10 years. See post 83 on this thread. You are making a resource allocation argument and I have made mine. One attack, just one, blows your argument out of the water completely.

I, along with the majority of Americans, do not believe that our occupation in these countries is ultimately preventing a large act of terror...either here on our own soil, or in other countries. I, along with the majority of Americans, believe that our occupations are actually now encouraging/promoting/indirectly funding acts of terror specifically targeted towards us, and now specifically targeted towards other countries' citizens that we dragged into this mess.

Again, for all of us around the globe, I really do hope that you are correct in your assumptions, but I'd also be confident in suggesting that you truly are the minority at this point in time.

 

[cryptix]

Think about this...

They put these elite warriors in a FUCKING CHINOOK - It's a fucking bloated whale that can't turn worth a fuck.

Why weren't the members of seal team 6 in black-hawks?

Set Up? Very possible....
Inside Job? Very very possible....

Why?

Because of fear that they would talk about the Bin Laden hit being a hoax.

 

[Gonzo]

I don't know what the fuck all that text above me is going on about in the thread.

But towards the OP who wanted to discuss the Seal Team 6. Ya that was the same team but not the same people who did the Bin Laden operation.

Also, if you think this shit is uncommon over there, you are dead wrong. My best friend is over there right in the middle of it as we speak. He can still facebook chat so I get a chance to talk to him pretty often when he's between missions.

Shit like what happened to that team happens every single day. It's happening this very second. That shit just got publicized more because it was Seal Team 6.

This is how the enemy operates. They use car bombs and shit. They also just run up to bases and helicopters (whatever they can find), shoot as many rockets as they can....and then run away as fast as they can. That is how shit's going down over there.

As far as missions go, he can't give me that much insight. But I know he's on one of them right now.

And I know his team is going to dominate those mother fuckers.

 

[jsherloc]

Also, pretty sure our military has gotten around the whole "international law" thing before a few times too. Targeted assassinations with small tactical teams based on solid intelligence is the only "presence" we need if we are just trying to protect the citizens of the world. This can all be done without a massive military presence. we've done it when it was convenient for us before.

It is interesting to me why we need so many "contracts" and global businesses and businessmen involved and what not when we are truly just trying to eliminate the evil of the world and protect US interests...Not very efficient?

I guess there isn't more to this whole War on Terror thing. It is as simple as us fighting them there, so we aren't fighting them here. Do you foresee this to EVER end in your lifetime then? Like, eventually these extremists will realize we are militarily superior and then just decide to "switch gears" and "give up" their idea...thus making the world a safer place LONG TERM?

 

[REIMktg]

Think about this...

They put these elite warriors in a FUCKING CHINOOK - It's a fucking bloated whale that can't turn worth a fuck.

Why weren't the members of seal team 6 in black-hawks?

Set Up? Very possible....
Inside Job? Very very possible....

Why?

Because of fear that they would talk about the Bin Laden hit being a hoax.

These guys fly on transport jets too - I am not stuck on the Chinook part but I am not beyond thinking they were set up by someone.

@jsherlock - I give up on you because the thread has ceased to be any fun. I wish I believed in human nature like you do but my experiences have proven otherwise. I simply do not believe in people like you do.