My Conversation with Mark Karpeles of MtGox

Kiopa_Matt said:
So in other words, you have no god damn idea, just like the rest of the bitcoin community? You're just sure that when it does happen, it's going to be f*cken awesome!

Have to admit, I've never seen such an amazing concept squandered this badly.
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What are you looking for me to say? Did you think I was Satoshi or something?

NO, I have no idea what form the first super-popular app will be in and what it will do.

What I've been saying all along is that there is more than enough momentum moving towards making it to ensure its' success.

And why did you use the word "Squandered?" Doesn't that suggest we've thrown away the ball and are not trying anymore?

I find your lack of patience disturbing.
 


lukep said:
I find your lack of patience disturbing.
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Well, it's my livelihood we're talking about. Bitcoin has provided me with a very comfortable life over the past 8 - 10 months, and I'd prefer to see that increase, not decrease. But when shit like MtGox hits, that affects the price of bitcoin, which affects budgets and revenue.

Anyway, doesn't matter. Already decided, we're just going to do it ourselves, because quite obviously nobody else is going to step up. This isn't rocket science.
 
It's not funny and it doesn't miss the point.

Some people, without government directives or support, took what they perceived as opportunity. Other peoples got really screwed over during the profit taking.

Nothing wrong with profit as long as you aren't screwing people over while you're making the profit. IMHO.

Bitcoin is all about who gets screwed. Some supporters want to screw people over, some just want to get rich before others get screwed over, and some are just supporters.

When you find someone with significant assets that is willing to put all of their assets into bitcoin, then I'd perhaps actually look at it a little more seriously.
 
lukep said:
There's your problem; You think we're ignoring it. The exact opposite is the truth. Nothing on earth is having more money thrown at it and coders working on it than bitcoin is right now. Nothing at all.
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I do not have a problem because I am not holding any coins.

The problem is all yours and I could not care less whether or not it will be solved. I am just enjoying the spectacle of another pet rock bubble.

You still have not answered my earlier question of whether you participated / had experience in any prior bubbles. I have to assume (from your statements and probably being a "true believer") that you have not, so you have no frame of reference to what I am talking about.

I wish you good luck in fighting the financial/banking/regulatory/enforcement system of every government in the world. You are going to need it.
 
DKPMO said:
I do not have a problem because I am not holding any coins.
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It's not possible to be completely unbiased.
Either you are biased because you hold coins, or you are biased because you hate yourself that you don't.
So there's your problem ;)

It doesn't make sense to discuss bitcoin's future because you will be right or wrong for the wrong reasons anyway.
 
Fanaticism is a belief or behavior involving uncritical zeal or obsessive enthusiasm.

meh..never thought i'd put him on my ignore list, but you get to the point where you realize you can't have a rational discussion with "religious" fanatics that sticks to any connected discourse and consistency. manages to alienate just about everyone and is blind to that fact. :throwup:
 
lukep said:
What are you looking for me to say? Did you think I was Satoshi or something?

NO
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That's exactly what I would expect the real Satoshi to say!

Doctor+s+Shocked+Expression+Comp.+I+could+watch+this+for+hours_09c6b5_3551554.gif
 
sennin436 said:
Fanaticism is a belief or behavior involving uncritical zeal or obsessive enthusiasm.

meh..never thought i'd put him on my ignore list, but you get to the point where you realize you can't have a rational discussion with "religious" fanatics that sticks to any connected discourse and consistency. manages to alienate just about everyone and is blind to that fact. :throwup:
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Reminds me of Gold-fanatics..
- right for the wrong reasons until 2011
- still won't shut the fuck up after S&P gains > 100% and gold falls 40%
 
"The Bitcoin masses, judging by their behavior on forums, have no actual interest in science, technology or even objective reality when it interferes with their market position."
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I wonder what babbling moron this reminds everyone of.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
Well, it's my livelihood we're talking about. Bitcoin has provided me with a very comfortable life over the past 8 - 10 months, and I'd prefer to see that increase, not decrease. But when shit like MtGox hits, that affects the price of bitcoin, which affects budgets and revenue.
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I'm just trying to say you're worried about the wrong things... There are battles to be fought, but crime and other individual failures ONLY serve to make bitcoin more efficient. MtGox dying horribly was the best thing mtgox could have done for bitcoin.

BTW, don't say I never get you anything: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251087

Kiopa_Matt said:
Anyway, doesn't matter. Already decided, we're just going to do it ourselves, because quite obviously nobody else is going to step up. This isn't rocket science.
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SWEET! That's the spirit.

Let me know (on skype) what I can do to lend a hand.


Cath Erder said:
It's not funny and it doesn't miss the point.
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It's even more hilarious now because you still don't get the point.

Cath Erder said:
Bitcoin is all about who gets screwed. Some supporters want to screw people over, some just want to get rich before others get screwed over, and some are just supporters.
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Oh, so that's what bitcoin is all about? Damn, I was WAY off!

:repuke:

Free markets remove safety nets for stupid people. If that's too hard for you, feel free to keep using those FDIC-insured, federally protected, oh-so-safe fiat dollars.


Cath Erder said:
When you find someone with significant assets that is willing to put all of their assets into bitcoin, then I'd perhaps actually look at it a little more seriously.
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First of all, there have been some huge investments like the Winklevii and Falkvinge. Millions each. Falkvinge says he put "all" his savings in back in 2011. I don't know the amount, but he was living a luxurious life before.

But that's not the point of bitcoin at all... Quite the opposite, in fact. It's the peoples money... And the rich have an incentive to fight it for as long as they are able to.

This vid of Stebot at the Texas Bitcoin Conference just came out today; you could learn a lot from it, but the relevant stuff starts at 6:35:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhL1Y1lg35w]Bitcoin: The Psychology of Money - Stefan Molyneux speaks at the Texas Bitcoin Conference - YouTube[/ame]

It's not like I hate the rich, but I do, very much, hate the unfair advantage that government gives to people that wind up making them rich while robbing the rest of us.

Bitcoin removes that 100%. It'll never exist again on this planet once bitcoin is our money. And millions of people around the world already know this, and are fighting for it to become our money.



DKPMO said:
I am just enjoying the spectacle of another pet rock bubble.
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Must get pretty tiring after all these years of nothing but huge year-on-year gains... How do you do it man?


DKPMO said:
You still have not answered my earlier question of whether you participated / had experience in any prior bubbles. I have to assume (from your statements and probably being a "true believer") that you have not, so you have no frame of reference to what I am talking about.
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I had a 401k back during the dotcom bubble, I married a certified financial analyst who had to pass Series 66, and I owned a house up until the housing bubble, which I got out of just in time. I held gold and silver most of that time, so I even had a good benchmark... Don't tell me though; you don't think any of that experience counts.

Would you define a bubble as something that is merely overvalued, or does it have to go all the way back down to where it started for it to have been a bubble?
 
Luke a serious question: do you think (or hope) of BTC becoming a currency or becoming a payment processor / gate / service?

Because the way I see it, all BTC does is provide a way to pay in the so much hated fiat currency of your choice. There's not a single product that's not bound to US $ / Euro / whatever currency that you can pay for in BTC where the price is not bound to the fiat money value. When paying with BTCs for something, it's always calculated back to the currency value. There's no real fix '1 BTC' price.

That being said, BTC becoming a payment solution that gets superior to the existing ones I can see a future for it. There are lots of benefits and with some improvement (specifically consumer protection), it's definitely possible. But replacing fiat and becoming a real 'currency' isn't gonna happen imo.

There's a HUGE problem with the investors you're ferring to putting in their money into BTC. You say they invest in BTC, true that. But what seems much more likely to me is they invest in BTC because it can be converted to a fiat value and that's where their profits are. The article you linked to by Falkvinge is referring to the BTC growth and the performance, but it's all bound to $.

Bottom line, everything BTC can be 'worth' is valued in fiat. Right now, there's absolutely nothing that's really valued in BTCs. It's always a BTC amount equal to $ / € on the current exchange rate isn't it?
 
TheSeo1 said:
Luke a serious question: do you think (or hope) of BTC becoming a currency or becoming a payment processor / gate / service?

Because the way I see it, all BTC does is provide a way to pay in the so much hated fiat currency of your choice. There's not a single product that's not bound to US $ / Euro / whatever currency that you can pay for in BTC where the price is not bound to the fiat money value. When paying with BTCs for something, it's always calculated back to the currency value. There's no real fix '1 BTC' price.

That being said, BTC becoming a payment solution that gets superior to the existing ones I can see a future for it. There are lots of benefits and with some improvement (specifically consumer protection), it's definitely possible. But replacing fiat and becoming a real 'currency' isn't gonna happen imo.

There's a HUGE problem with the investors you're ferring to putting in their money into BTC. You say they invest in BTC, true that. But what seems much more likely to me is they invest in BTC because it can be converted to a fiat value and that's where their profits are. The article you linked to by Falkvinge is referring to the BTC growth and the performance, but it's all bound to $.

Bottom line, everything BTC can be 'worth' is valued in fiat. Right now, there's absolutely nothing that's really valued in BTCs. It's always a BTC amount equal to $ / € on the current exchange rate isn't it?
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The concept you are describing is known as unit of account which Bitcoin is too volatile to claim [for now]. That's the rub. Volatility is majorly a result of speculation, but speculators are drawn to volatility. 'Round and 'round we go.
 
Just got Two phishing attempts to my MtGox email address.

One pretending to be Coinbase, the other pretending to be CampBX.

I think not coincidence.
 
I have no interest in investing in "new" currencies, but this entire case with mr cox looks...
"If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, probably it's a duck"
... maybe a lot of people was (d)ucked right in the BOB :bootyshake:
 
andrewkar said:
I have no interest in investing in "new" currencies, but this entire case with mr cox looks...
"If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, probably it's a duck"
... maybe a lot of people was (d)ucked right in the BOB :bootyshake:
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Thats what i mentioned all the time. Who cares what Karpeles said about his reasons or whatever. He had all time of the world to fix things, he had all the resources to fix it... there is no reason the things envolved like they did. Not over that long time.

The only question is how deep he itself is active involved in the scam.

This whole thing looks more and more like the Madoff scam. There also people did not believed a long time Madoff active did what he did. Because it was so out of scope like someone in that position behaves that people assumed all but not the plain and simple answer. Because Madoff was such a nice and such a intelligent guy.

For Karpeles the plain and simple question is: Can it be, that all that coins are gone, all that bad things happened without he is involved? Is there a good answer for that?

I think he even tastes like a duck when someone would try.
 
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