My Conversation with Mark Karpeles of MtGox

There are 2 different amounts on the table. The 740+k (6% of existing bitcoins) is how much coin Gox has in total. No one, including MK (so he says) has access to those 740+k coins right now, which is why he halted trading and subsequently shut down the site.

We don't know the amount (yet) that was leaked or skimmed through the TxMal exploit over along period of time. That's a whole separate matter, and I've seen no reason to suspect it was anywhere as large as the entire holdings.

MtGox Situation: Crisis Strategy Draft

I have no idea of that document if legit, but a) it got a mention from CNN, and b) according to Jon's convo above, it's "more or less" accurate.

Best to go under the assumption MtGox is broke, and trying to raise bail-out funds from other exchanges to keep bitcoin looking good, but they will fail at that. If you have money in MtGox, best just to assume it's gone.
 


Just shows you what a bat-shit crazy fucked up "market" it really is.
1. Murika ain't the center of the universe. China's daily volumn still dwarfs us and they've got TWO exchanges that make MtGox's previous volume look like a newb.

2. Just because you're not bright enough to understand the reasoning here doesn't mean the market is fucked up. A free market's gonna market, freely. Absolutely nothing that has happened to date around this currency is surprising, or means that bitcoin won't become the world's dominant currency one day.


You'll never go wrong betting money on pop-culture buzzwords!
I wasn't aware that antifragile is in the pop culture lexicon yet; Awesome to hear that it may be.

When I use that term, I am using it from a scientific definition, similar to but not limited to the Taleb definition.

While it is true that there are some actions that could be taken to greatly suppress bitcoin adoption, like global nuclear obliteration, or at least all nations declaring together that bitcoin owners get the death penalty; these all strain the imagination and lawmakers don't have very much imagination as it is.

So assuming that such an action will not take place in the next couple of years, I see no possible vector of attack that will harm bitcoin but not at the same time make it stronger than it was before the attack.

You can see it in the price time and time again; before early 2012 we didn't really have any attacks on bitcoin, and all these lazy inefficiencies like MtGox bloomed; natural selection failing to weed out the weak so far.

But last year the established systems started fighting back with hundreds of small & medium sized attacks, leading up to Russia outright banning bitcoin and Murika doing it's best to scare us off by sticking ppl in prison and making up draconian legislation like Bitlicensing... Yet each and every time something 'scary' happens, like the silk road being taken down famously demonstrated last october, you can count on 3 things to happen:

1. The panic sellers lose, as we die-hard coiners always see their panic as an opportinity to pick up cheap coins.

2. Natural selection prunes the bitcoin ecosphere to be stronger, by showing the coding community how to overcome this process in the future.

3. The entire planet hears from their local media another round of crying wolf about bitcoin being dead.

Every last time.

The enevitable conclusion is bitcoin is growing far stronger than people give it credit for, and has no real obstacles in sight.

That's antifragile.


I see regulation as the lesser of the two evils.

In the end... everyone gets fucked, lol.
You're simply wrong. Regulation cannot help and will be ignored by pretty much everyone after time.

Plus, while being a victim of theft is a deterrence, but in this case only a temporary one, and it is not a very strong one as you can see in the Bloomberg video above.

There have been scads of cases of bitcoin theft, all widely publicized by a media wouldn't dare let one go unused against us... Yet despite it all, growth of bitcoin only accelerates.

For instance BitPay, the biggest payment processor, posted last September that they signed up their 10,000th merchant. By December, they had over 14,000. Today? 25,000+.

On Black Friday of 2012, they processed 99 payments. That same day of 2013, they processed 6,296.

There are other payment processors. I use Coinbase, which has another 24,000 plus merchants. They're growing equally as fast.

Anyway, the point of all this is that bitcoin is doing quite fine without regulation, thanks.

Here, familiarize yourself with the market before you decide to shit on it next time:

CoinDesk State of Bitcoin 2014
 
Did Jon ban CLKeenan? Shiett..

you're gonna get banned for outing jon man. RIP.

but yea ofc he did. clkeenan clowned the owner of the forum. so he got served.


also, i agree with lukep and his bitcoin philosophy. i can see bitcoin going big in the future. thats the only time ill say it. anyway, i'll forever troll him and say that bitcoin will fail because its not as strong as american money. obama and government are looking out for our best interests. lol
 
I wasn't aware that antifragile is in the pop culture lexicon yet; Awesome to hear that it may be.

When I use that term, I am using it from a scientific definition, similar to but not limited to the Taleb definition.

Taleb's books are pop culture. They are about as scientific as tea leaf reading or Nostradamus prophesies.

But last year the established systems started fighting back with hundreds of small & medium sized attacks, leading up to Russia outright banning bitcoin and Murika doing it's best to scare us off by sticking ppl in prison and making up draconian legislation like Bitlicensing... Yet each and every time something 'scary' happens, like the silk road being taken down famously demonstrated last october, you can count on 3 things to happen:

1. The panic sellers lose, as we die-hard coiners always see their panic as an opportinity to pick up cheap coins.

2. Natural selection prunes the bitcoin ecosphere to be stronger, by showing the coding community how to overcome this process in the future.

3. The entire planet hears from their local media another round of crying wolf about bitcoin being dead.

Every last time.

You do realize this is far from over and all this "fighting back" is nothing compared to what is going to happen once the governments fully grasp the extent of BTC threat to their power? I suppose you've never invested in a bubble asset before. I am sure you believe that "this time the world has changed and it will be different". I wish you a lot of luck with your investment strategy!

Every last time.

The enevitable conclusion is bitcoin is growing far stronger than people give it credit for, and has no real obstacles in sight.

That's antifragile.

I do not really have time/ interest to debate this ludicrous statement ("no real obstacles", LOL) so I'll just post the video where the guy who knows about payments industry/regulation a lot more than most people here explains what is going to happen next.

"There is no chance Bitcoin becomes successful in the USA, period, end of story" - Keith Rabois

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia1bqXuOg04]Sunday Conversation #7: Keith Rabois, Khosla Ventures (6 of 7) - YouTube[/ame]
 
^ AW SHIT. LUKEP WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO. HE CALLED YOUR MOM A FAT FUCK.

YOUR MOMS STOMACH. ALL FAT. IN HER MOUTH. BALLSACK.

popcorn.gif
 
I am really wondering why most of the advocates of BTC are over complicating the potential of BTC (cf. discussion over government acceptance etc...). It seems pretty straightforward that 99.9% mainstream users have absolutely no advantage of switching to BTC. Some interesting survey in Germany and France popup yesterday going in that direction. Right now it doesn't give them any clear added value and especially what customers are thriving in this economy which is a total protection of their transaction (Paypal / credit card protection for instance). A widespread payment system is more than a transaction fee and it's technical aspect. The day Btc is accepted widely by major retailer and that bitcoin offer the same advantage as a bank does, then i'll buy the fact there is a tangible future for this rather than it's current speculative aspect.

Anyway i'm in now as it's cheap and just for the fun of the speculation.
 
I am really wondering why most of the advocates of BTC are over complicating the potential of BTC (cf. discussion over government acceptance etc...). It seems pretty straightforward that 99.9% mainstream users have absolutely no advantage of switching to BTC. Some interesting survey in Germany and France popup yesterday going in that direction. Right now it doesn't give them any clear added value and especially what customers are thriving in this economy which is a total protection of their transaction (Paypal / credit card protection for instance). A widespread payment system is more than a transaction fee and it's technical aspect. The day Btc is accepted widely by major retailer and that bitcoin offer the same advantage as a bank does, then i'll buy the fact there is a tangible future for this rather than it's current speculative aspect.

Anyway i'm in now as it's cheap and just for the fun of the speculation.

chuck-norris-approved.gif


Fucking Hooray, somebody else gets it!
 
chuck-norris-approved.gif


Fucking Hooray, somebody else gets it!

Well indeed let's make it simple, would your family / friends have any actual advantage of paying with bitcoin instead of their visa / MasterCard / Paypal ?

If they do not receive the products they pay for with BTC, is their any phone number they can call to get their money back ?

Let's put this straight, here is a user profile done in Europe about BTC:

Why do u buy BTC ?

Investment and speculation (27%)
Avoid bank fees (21%)
Confidential Transaction (16%)
Sell my product easily (10%)
I am below 18 years old (10%)
Avoid tax (8%)
Anonymity (7%)

Most of mainstream user do not care about avoiding bank fees and confidential transaction but cares about safety.

Look why Taobao in China became so successful it's partially because Alipay offers a very high level of security and if your not happy with what you bought you can get your money back in no time.

Still a majority of internet users do not buy online because of payment safety issue. Bitcoin simply doesn't answer this problem. And thus the fact that transaction are cheap / free is not enough as added value for mainstream users.

I hope you get my point now.

Cheers
 
You do realize this is far from over
Yes I do. Many times have I quoted the year 2017 as being the likely breakout year on here, in fact.

The time period before it breaks out doesn't matter; it's still happening, and nothing can stop that now.


and all this "fighting back" is nothing compared to what is going to happen once the governments fully grasp the extent of BTC threat to their power?
I grasp more than you think I do.

Let me make a mental construct that will help you better see what govs are up against here....

Imagine a new Bittorrent client came along that instead of letting you download "Stolen" movies, it actually let you download money. Real, non-stolen money. let's say $100 a day to everyone with the client.

Such a thing could not be stopped or even significantly slowed down, could it? Such an impossible-to-restrict thing as 1s and 0s that are completely without any barrier to entry other than an internet connection ensures that they can't fight it the old fashion way... Laws or no.

But then the Incentive for free money to all would in fact make it spread fast enough to take over the planet quickly and destroy any industries (like having a job at all in that case) in it's path.

The only different between the above scenario and bitcoin is the amount of wealth being offered by the client. There is literally no one on the planet that bitcoin can't save money. Not a single person. Janet Yellen could secretly be sending Obomba some coin right now to pay him back for lunch because there are no freaking fees!

Face it; it's enevitable, even if they pass another amendment to the constitution banning bitcoin in the extreme. That can't stop it, because the incentives don't go away. But don't take my word for it; See the 18th and then 21st amendments for yourself.



"There is no chance Bitcoin becomes successful in the USA, period, end of story" - Keith Rabois

Sunday Conversation #7: Keith Rabois, Khosla Ventures (6 of 7) - YouTube
Keith sounds like a smart enough guy; I won't call him a fool, but he's still a statist that just doesn't get free markets.

Let's take a look at his big fear: that uncle sam will come along and make it illegal to advertise businesses that accept bitcoin.

That worked in Gambling because the thing they threatened Yahoo and other publishers not to advertise were Gambling outfits, like casinoes.

How can this work with bitcoin, where the things they will threaten publishers not to advertise is... Bitcoin?

There are many tens of thousands of businesses and hundreds of Charities accepting bitcoin. Are they going to ban all these businesses and Charities from marketing themselves anymore?

This is not a rational avenue of attack. The only "big gun" the USSA has to attack bitcoin is what russia did already; "Ban" the use of it.

Somehow, you can still see lots of bitcoin being bought by russians today.

What happens, --->100%<--- of the time that governments ban something is that a black market forms for that thing, and it still gets sold with a premium... And of course customers go elsewhere to places that it's legal in.

Again, see that 21st amendment for historical analysis.

But it gets better! So far, everything that uncle sam has banned was something like a narcotic or deadly weapon... Something they could make the claim was in an effort to protect us.

This does not ring true about bitcoin. Everyone already knows that bitcoin exists to PROTECT US against GOVERNMENTS.

So it's a totally different ballgame; Kind of like a huge endorsement of bitcoin and a simultaneous admittance that it can hurt them.

Every last person who is in the position to consider using bitcoin after a ban will come to the conclusion that it's in their best interest TO DO SO, if they feel they can get away with it.

Some sheeples won't, but the majority will, and you'll see that repealing amendment following closely behind them.


It seems pretty straightforward that 99.9% mainstream users have absolutely no advantage of switching to BTC.
Do you not believe that improvements can be made with time or something?

Are you like... Amish or something?

Here's a fun excersize for you; Head over to github and do some searches. Search for bitcoin, paypal, flappy bird, any any other phrase you can think of.

You'll find that the coders of planet earth are working on bitcoin infrastructure in more force than anything else on the planet right now. Twice as much as paypal.... 100x as much as google wallet.

Silicon valley is pumping more money into bitcoin than any other tech right now too. That goes double for Austin.

My point is that whatever you think you see as a tool for those 99% of ppl right now will look totally different in a few months. Facebook and google couldn't have existed in 1993, and neither can their bitcoin counterparts in 2014.

...Doesn't stop the visionaries & entrepreneurs from seeing the awesomeness of the blockchain, however. Ban bitcoin and you've effectively moved the majority of the venture capitalists & their money to to friendlier shores.
 
Well indeed let's make it simple, would your family / friends have any actual advantage of paying with bitcoin instead of their visa / MasterCard / Paypal ?

If they do not receive the products they pay for with BTC, is their any phone number they can call to get their money back ?

Let's put this straight, here is a user profile done in Europe about BTC:

Why do u buy BTC ?

Investment and speculation (27%)
Avoid bank fees (21%)
Confidential Transaction (16%)
Sell my product easily (10%)
I am below 18 years old (10%)
Avoid tax (8%)
Anonymity (7%)

Most of mainstream user do not care about avoiding bank fees and confidential transaction but cares about safety.

Look why Taobao in China became so successful it's partially because Alipay offers a very high level of security and if your not happy with what you bought you can get your money back in no time.

Still a majority of internet users do not buy online because of payment safety issue. Bitcoin simply doesn't answer this problem. And thus the fact that transaction are cheap / free is not enough as added value for mainstream users.

I hope you get my point now.

Cheers



Great post.


BREAKING: Full Mt. Gox story coming... : Bitcoin
i b4 MKarp is going to commit suicide.

Jon you should have sent hitsquad to his hotel after his cat pic w bad opsec bc his entrance badge for Cerulean Tower Tokyu Hotel showed. But I guess dead guys dont pay money so pointless.
 
Still a majority of internet users do not buy online because of payment safety issue. Bitcoin simply doesn't answer this problem. And thus the fact that transaction are cheap / free is not enough as added value for mainstream users.

I hope you get my point now.

Cheers

I get your point.
 
Do you not believe that improvements can be made with time or something?

Are you like... Amish or something?

Here's a fun excersize for you; Head over to github and do some searches. Search for bitcoin, paypal, flappy bird, any any other phrase you can think of.

You'll find that the coders of planet earth are working on bitcoin infrastructure in more force than anything else on the planet right now. Twice as much as paypal.... 100x as much as google wallet.

Silicon valley is pumping more money into bitcoin than any other tech right now too. That goes double for Austin.

My point is that whatever you think you see as a tool for those 99% of ppl right now will look totally different in a few months. Facebook and google couldn't have existed in 1993, and neither can their bitcoin counterparts in 2014.

...Doesn't stop the visionaries & entrepreneurs from seeing the awesomeness of the blockchain, however. Ban bitcoin and you've effectively moved the majority of the venture capitalists & their money to to friendlier shores.

Luke, your seriously misunderstanding me ! I just purchased a consequent amount of BTC, meaning i am willing to loose this money. However this is just pure speculation on my side. I believe things will change, then this purchase of BTC will simply turn to be an investment.
 
Do you not believe that improvements can be made with time or something?

Not really, no, and that's the fundamental problem with bitcoin. I think the technology of a virtual crypto-currency is here to stay, but bitcoin is most likely going back to being a black market currency for drugs and guns.

Simply due to the fact it was developed by hackers, for hackers, so trying to implement the necessary changes to make it go mainstream will be impossible -- the bitcoin community simply wouldn't allow for those changes. People within the bitcoin community constantly complain about security, and how it needs to be improved. All the while, all the security measures we could ever possibly want are sitting right in front of us. It's not like online security is a new concept. Those measures will never be implemented into bitcoin though.
 
Luke, your seriously misunderstanding me !
I never thought you were hostile against bitcoin; but how else am I to interpret the words:

furfing said:
Still a majority of internet users do not buy online because of payment safety issue. Bitcoin simply doesn't answer this problem. And thus the fact that transaction are cheap / free is not enough as added value for mainstream users.
...As to mean something other than an argument against mainstream adoption?

Sorry if it felt like I snapped yer head off... It's just that there are 1,001 attempts out there right now to provide answers to this and make bitcoin products and apps completely mainstream-friendly.