Martin Grunin - Facebook Ads Fraud - Bank Fraud - mgrunin

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zimok said:
What I'd really like to know is what evidence was actually collected to make this stand up in court? If it's like everyone here is saying, the sky is literally falling, jail, felonies, fraud etc...Someone tell me WHY the fuck didn't facebook go to the police/FBI, they go after crimes in the 10~K, wouldn't they have stepped up to the plate to help collect evidence PRE waving a giant red flag so Grunin has time to wipe most of it?

How can they prove it was Grunin sitting at the computer/registering those accounts? Unless they had a secret warrant to collect evidence pre-trial, what's to stop him from wiping most of such evidence?

If they can't prove the above beyond reasonable doubt, wouldn't the case falter? Is the plan just to slam everything they think he did against him and go for some kind of plea deal to get a precedent or example out of him?

Grunin seemed like a smart guy, did he really think he was above getting nailed for doing something on this scale, what was his exit plan? He seemed to genuinely enjoy helping out other members here, sure his ego was a bit much, but at least he got a lot of people thinking about money/investing... This isn't saying anything evidence wise, but it begs the question 'why bother?' Was WF in for a long con stemming from years of rep building, really?

Why does half of FB's lawsuit include bits from their TOS? TOS's aren't the law, and they're very shaky in courts. Are they hoping to create precedents to legitimize them with this case? If so that means all of us here are susceptible to a slew of additional laws that are every bit as legitimate as standard ones simply for a 1 second action of clicking OK on a website TOS that no one ever reads, a bit scary eh?

Nearly everyone put their favorite pair of righteous panties when the only thing we have to go on is a well written statement by FB and a NYPost article. I'd agree with most of you, if we could make a reasonable assessment of the proof.

Either way, cases like this are another hit against the IM industry, no greater repercussions can come than from the likes of corporations with endless money and governments with endless hopes of creating new laws, tit for tat.
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There are numerous ways facebook could know it is mgrunin, tieing all of this activity to him.

The TOS stuff is in there to butter up the court case, it's all about the impersonated accounts that are unpaid. If he didn't do that whole shenanigan none of this would have happened.
 


at least he used whois privacy BUT the domain was regged with GoDaddy so that payment info is def getting subpoenaed. Lets hope he had someone else reg it for him!

Whois Record for 2012-11-21
PreviousNext
Domain:
thinksmodo.com
Record Date: 2012-11-21
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Server: whois.godaddy.com
Created: 2012-11-19
Updated: 2012-11-19
Expires: 2013-11-19
Reverse Whois:
thinksmodo.com@domainsbyproxy.com

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (Domain Names | The World's Largest Domain Name Registrar - GoDaddy)
Domain Name: THINKSMODO.COM
Created on: 19-Nov-12
Expires on: 19-Nov-13
Last Updated on: 19-Nov-12

Registrant:
Domains By Proxy, LLC
DomainsByProxy.com
14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States

Administrative Contact:
Private, Registration THINKSMODO.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains By Proxy, LLC
DomainsByProxy.com
14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598

Technical Contact:
Private, Registration THINKSMODO.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains By Proxy, LLC
DomainsByProxy.com
14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.STACKINGJETS.COM
NS2.STACKINGJETS.COM
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he is SO fucked. this is proof he did it 100%. used the same NS on his MAIN website WINNINGPORTFOLIO.COM. what a dumb fuck!

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .EDU domains and
Registrars.
Domain Name: WINNINGPORTFOLIO.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1510895666_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Update Date: 2012-07-25 10:38:39
Creation Date: 2008-07-29 13:18:20
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2014-07-29 13:18:20
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.480-624-2505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Registration Private
Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Registrant Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Registrant Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Registrant City: Scottsdale
Registrant State/Province: Arizona
Registrant Postal Code: 85260
Registrant Country: United States
Registrant Phone: +1.4806242599
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +1.4806242598
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: WINNINGPORTFOLIO.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Registration Private
Admin Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Admin Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Admin Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Admin City: Scottsdale
Admin State/Province: Arizona
Admin Postal Code: 85260
Admin Country: United States
Admin Phone: +1.4806242599
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +1.4806242598
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: WINNINGPORTFOLIO.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: Registration Private
Tech Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Tech Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Tech Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Tech City: Scottsdale
Tech State/Province: Arizona
Tech Postal Code: 85260
Tech Country: United States
Tech Phone: +1.4806242599
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +1.4806242598
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: WINNINGPORTFOLIO.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Name Server: NS1.STACKINGJETS.COM
Name Server: NS2.STACKINGJETS.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
Last update of WHOIS database: 2014-05-23T00:00:00Z
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Thorn said:
You mean a smart exit plan like he executed in his trading thread?

I am pretty sure that Bernard Madoff is smarter as most people here.
You will not find any sane answers why he did what he did.

To assume that people act always rational is wrong.
And if you think about your life then there is a big chance you will find a point where you think today "man..."..
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Hear me out on why I think that's a bad example...

He didn't face repercussions other than a small ego hit, a slight rep loss, and it would of been a forgotten WF post in a week flat. If he 'won' he had A LOT more to gain. Also, since everything was documented, the story had the potential to get plastered all over the web as the '22(whatever) year old who turned 10k into 100k', great headline no? Also, If, he's a criminal, the potential for a long con would of increased a hundred fold.

If he lost forging documents, scamming FB out of all that money, forging corporate advertisers, he had EVERYTHING to lose. Wouldn't that keep a man awake at night, wondering about an exit plan?

I don't think all people are rational, far from it.
 
roflcopter-499x453.jpg
 
phrench said:
How he got away without jail time is beyond me.

Everybody knows it was a huge scam.
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wilms got away with it because he targeted a mass of dumb individuals. there's no private, giant organized force that's motivated or smart enough to pummel wilms in the ass.

our champ mcgrunin here, on the other hand, pissed off a giant corporation with the organization, money, and drive to pummelfuck his urethra into oblivion.

it's like if you stole from 1,000,000 broke and stupid families, none of them would have the resources or motivation to organize as a whole and hunt you down. because wilms scammed these people over the internet under many different fake brands and companies, he was for the most part anonymous, which allowed him to get away safely. steal from one member in the mafia though, and you're royally pummel-fucked in the urethra when they found out who you are, my friend.
 
COMPLAINT AND DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL
G.

Facebook Sends Grunin a Second Cease-and-Desist Letter
49.

On or about April 26, 2013, Facebook sent Grunin a cease-and-desist letter reiterating its demands that he cease his activities. 50.

On or about April 29, 2013, Facebook hand delivered a copy of the letter to Grunin’s father, Gennady Grunin, with whom Grunin is believed to reside. 51.

On or about that same day, Facebook took additional technical measures to block Grunin’s access to Facebook by disabling Grunin’s known personal and advertising accounts. 52.

Despite multiple attempts to contact him, Grunin has not responded to Facebook.
H.

Harm to Facebook
53.

Facebook has not been paid for at least $340,000 worth of ads purchased by or for
 
What he did was wrong but some of you guys are being too hard on him. We should let him tell his story . It is disturbing so many people want to see blood even though they weren't affected (although one could argue this does makes the industry look worse, and this hurts publishers that do play by the rules).
 
zimok said:
Hear me out on why I think that's a bad example...

He didn't face repercussions other than a small ego hit, a slight rep loss, and it would of been a forgotten WF post in a week flat. If he 'won' he had A LOT more to gain. Also, since everything was documented, the story had the potential to get plastered all over the web as the '22(whatever) year old who turned 10k into 100k', great headline no? Also, If, he's a criminal, the potential for a long con would of increased a hundred fold.

If he lost forging documents, scamming FB out of all that money, forging corporate advertisers, he had EVERYTHING to lose. Wouldn't that keep a man awake at night, wondering about an exit plan?

I don't think all people are rational, far from it.
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I see your point but i really think its because his ego.
Perhaps we should say "risk managment"?

He is not stupid for sure. He did some buck. He thought he is clever (just read the domain post, nope, he ist intelligent but not clever). Then one account more. One more, got me this time but they can't know its me, other company. They got me not until now, then this time with a chance not too.. and so on.

Thats a typical behaviour where you do something and the odds seems to say "go on" but in reality its already over.

If i read it right he already stopped some tiime ago and i am sure he thought he did it, but in real they already had him long ago and was just putting all together. They lagged behind.

I think his exit plan was simply to make some bucks and then move on without get caught. The fact he did not get "caught" in the way the police hammers next day on his door proofed he is ok.

That simple.
 
Waddup said:
I will never understand people that flaunt their "wealth" while they are obviously playing with fire. That shit should be rule #1, the less attention you get the better it is.
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because when you're very egotistical, you want to make peasants feel inferior to you, and as a result you get a fluffy butterfly feeling in your soul.


While this was stepping over certain fucked up boundaries I still don't understand all the hate towards this guy. Spamming google to make coin on putting people in debt with loan offers isn't much better moral wise and convincing 50+ ladies that there is an anti-age cream that actually works while re-billing the fuck out of them for crazy amounts isn't either.

Seems to be quit easy telling your self "glad I never crossed that lawyer the fuck up limit".

/
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the degree of fraud is much higher in this case of defrauding facebook than it is in slinging acai/google kits/loans/payday offers.

it's like brutally murdering an innocent taiwanese family and putting their corpses on display in downtown so you can show off your murdering prowess in contrast to punching a family's dog in the face.

which is worse?
 
gbmack said:
wilms got away with it because he targeted a mass of dumb individuals. there's no private, giant organized force that's motivated or smart enough to pummel wilms in the ass.

our champ mcgrunin here, on the other hand, pissed off a giant corporation with the organization, money, and drive to pummelfuck his urethra into oblivion.

it's like if you stole from 1,000,000 broke and stupid families, none of them would have the resources or motivation to organize as a whole and hunt you down. because wilms scammed these people over the internet under many different fake brands and companies, he was for the most part anonymous, which allowed him to get away safely. steal from one member in the mafia though, and you're royally pummel-fucked in the urethra when they found out who you are, my friend.
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facebook was a victim, but judges are more inclined to throw the book at someone that victimizes lots of helpless people than one large cooperation and maybe two or three people (the alleged fake identities). The silver lining for martin is that his schemes didn't target lots of innocent people, like those work-at-home scams and ponzi do. His stock picks were bad, but his dealings in those matters were honest.
 
(O_o) said:
Any LEO // Detectives // DoJ // FBI Special Agents // FB Security Team reading this, you should give me a job or money for doing your job(s) for you.
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The FBI is hiring "pot heads" now, you can even smoke up on the way to the interview. Not sure if this applies to your situation, but if it does don't let that discourage you from applying.


EDIT: Let me know if you need a "internal reference"
 
Thorn said:
I remember the case from ebay against the digital point owner.
This looks alot more worse on the first glance.
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Yep, Shawn only ended up pleading guilty to one count of wire fraud. Just a $25k fine, 5 months prison and got to keep the $28M. Was expecting worse given the details.

Although he said did have to spend millions in legal fees over the last 7 years -- I doubt Martin has anywhere near the bankroll to defend himself very long.
 
How can they prove it was Grunin sitting at the computer/registering those accounts? Unless they had a secret warrant to collect evidence pre-trial, what's to stop him from wiping most of such evidence?
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They'll follow the money/credit. If money ended up in his accounts with no other explanation, it will eventually tracked back to the source.
 
pocketrockets said:
Yep, Shawn only ended up pleading guilty to one count of wire fraud. Just a $25k fine, 5 months prison and got to keep the $28M. Was expecting worse given the details.

Although he said did have to spend millions in legal fees over the last 7 years -- I doubt Martin has anywhere near the bankroll to defend himself very long.
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The 25K fine and 5 months in prison were on the criminal side, he mentioned that he settled with ebay on the civil side as well.
 
Jon said:
That's not true. You can absolutely get to the top without scamming someone.

You're forgetting that most people that do scam and fraud, actively or in a big way, also try and cover it up with the well crafted success story that they borrow from other legitimate ones and pawn off as their own.

Of course, once they are caught and/or exposed few people ever see it for what it was. Just one lie covering more lies... But it's easier to generalize it and shit on things you didn't understand in the first place.

This is just another nail in the never ending stream of nails for the coffin that will eventually be laid to rest for the affiliate marketing industry. It sucks, but it's the grave reality and future of this once fine industry.

I liked Martin. But he's a scammer and blatantly lied and cheated.. Just because one guy lies or cheats less than the next, does it make him any worse? I don't even know anymore because it happens so often.

But hey, turn that frown upside down! :)
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Not sure if I've ever seen Jon so kind like this before . :)
 
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