Luke's 4K post: How to GTFO! (And into Thailand)

Oh yeah, and avoiding prostitution while still having access to a beach and the internet is close to impossible in Thailand. Why do you fear it so much? If it holds no attraction for you, why does it bother you?

I think you should move to Phuket and live outside Patong or maybe in the south of the island. Some nice beaches there and very little nightlife.
 


If you are living in Thailand for more than 180 days a years you are considered a tax resident.

That makes you liable to pay taxes on local sourced income or any foreign source income brought into Thailand.

Tax rates can be as high as 37%.

If you are a non-resident and living less than 180 days a year in Thailand you are liable for local source income only.
 
geomark said:
But seriously, how about at least short version of how you do it?
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On how to gain citizenship in Hong Kong?

You live in Hong Kong for 7 years and apply for permanent residency. After you complete this step you apply for citizenship. You must renounce your previous citizenship though, which for people who have a US citizenship is probably a "kill two birds with one stone" situation if they're high income earners.

If you just want to be a permanent resident of HK, you do not need to drop your previous citizenship and you still get the right to vote. However you will not get a HK passport.

Once you're a HK citizen, you can live it up in Thailand tax free legally with your Hong Kong passport as long as you stay in Thailand as a non resident for less than 180 days. This applies for everyone, including US citizens. HK passports get the same Visa rules in Thailand that US passports do because HK is considered first world.

As pantheon mentioned, if you're living in Thailand for more than 180 days and not paying taxes, you're guilty of tax evasion! The King won't like that! But as a HK citizen you can just hang back in Hong Kong for a bit and come back to Thailand the next year and repeat the process. This way everything you're doing is 100% legit.

And I'm not trolling here. I'm simply stating a fact: Thailand is NOT a libertarian paradise. I don't understand why so many libertarians are fixated on this place.

I've been Thailand many times since I live close by. It's a great place where you can live cheap, but libertopia it isn't. Stop kidding yourselves.
 
bluechinagroup said:
On how to gain citizenship in Hong Kong?

You live in Hong Kong for 7 years and apply for permanent residency. After you complete this step you apply for citizenship. You must renounce your previous citizenship though, which for people who have a US citizenship is probably a "kill two birds with one stone" situation if they're high income earners.

If you just want to be a permanent resident of HK, you do not need to drop your previous citizenship and you still get the right to vote. However you will not get a HK passport.

Once you're a HK citizen, you can live it up in Thailand tax free legally with your Hong Kong passport as long as you stay in Thailand as a non resident for less than 180 days. This applies for everyone, including US citizens. HK passports get the same Visa rules in Thailand that US passports do because HK is considered first world.

As pantheon mentioned, if you're living in Thailand for more than 180 days and not paying taxes, you're guilty of tax evasion! The King won't like that! But as a HK citizen you can just hang back in Hong Kong for a bit and come back to Thailand the next year and repeat the process. This way everything you're doing is 100% legit.

And I'm not trolling here. I'm simply stating a fact: Thailand is NOT a libertarian paradise. I don't understand why so many libertarians are fixated on this place.

I've been Thailand many times since I live close by. It's a great place where you can live cheap, but libertopia it isn't. Stop kidding yourselves.
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Thanks for that. Wow, 7 years before you can apply for permanent residency in Hong Kong. It's only 3 in Thailand, but of course it's meaningless since they don't give it to anyone anyway.
 
geomark said:
Thanks for that. Wow, 7 years before you can apply for permanent residency in Hong Kong. It's only 3 in Thailand, but of course it's meaningless since they don't give it to anyone anyway.
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7 years goes by faster than you think, and you're guaranted to gain it once you apply. It's guaranteed by the HK constitution, and in practice expats have no trouble gaining it.

HK also has seperation of powers. It has an independent judiciary, an independent legislature, and of course the executive branch.

Thailand of course has none of this. Your example of Thailand's government ignoring the 3 year permanent residency rule is a perfect example of this.

Also the HK consitution forbids the HK government from doing deficit spending and requires that HK maintain its ultra low tax policy. It's the only constitution in the world that mandates this.
 
geomark said:
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I have become gay, the slayer of cocks.
 
^LOL. After being in Thailand only a couple of years it becomes pretty easy to spot the ladyboys, even the ones as well done as this one. Especially when s/he talks - same ladyboy voice they all have.

guaranteed no homo
 
lukep said:
Damn Turbo, you do get around. Where did you live there? Do you miss it?
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I lived in Singapore. Visted Thailand the most out of all the local regions. I miss some things (especially the food, dear sweet zombie jesus, THE FOOD) I also miss the ability to just hop on a plane for a couple of hours and be in a completely different country/culture and being able to do just that in about 10 different directions. I really miss the monsoons.

I'm ready to be an expat again, but this time I'd like to go to Europe since I've already done the asia thing. It's on the bucketlist anyhow.
 
pantheon said:
Hong Kong is a great country and I generally like it a lot.

But how do you cope with the high level of pollution there?
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's that bad. HK also has a much higher life expectancy than the US.

Also I live in a greener area of HK that's doesn't that much traffic, but it's only like 30 min away from the urban areas. HK actually has tons of green space, including lots of hiking trails and bike paths. It's not just an urban jungle.

I find the pollution much worse in Beijing. Over there it's quite unbearable.
 
bluechinagroup said:
7 years goes by faster than you think, and you're guaranted to gain it once you apply. It's guaranteed by the HK constitution, and in practice expats have no trouble gaining it.

HK also has seperation of powers. It has an independent judiciary, an independent legislature, and of course the executive branch.

Thailand of course has none of this. Your example of Thailand's government ignoring the 3 year permanent residency rule is a perfect example of this.

Also the HK consitution forbids the HK government from doing deficit spending and requires that HK maintain its ultra low tax policy. It's the only constitution in the world that mandates this.
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Dude, as a fellow HK resident, I love this place as much as you do but let's not ignore the fact that HK has quite a few issues of its own and that this government (if you even want to call it that) is one of the most incompetent, corrupt and disgusting administrations of the developed Asian hemisphere, one that is openly in bed with tycoons, filled with greedy, opportunistic bureaucrats who only have their own profits in mind and is currently spearheaded by a guy who apparently thinks it's OK to meet with triads and gamble while in office.

Of course that doesn't matter much (yet..) if you're only all about business, but if you actually care about the place, one that I have now spent half a decade in, its continued downfall is sad to behold. Anyway, didn't mean to get off topic. For business and life (if you can afford it) HK is great but it's also far from the worry-free, politically perfect utopia that you suggest.
 
amorph said:
Dude, as a fellow HK resident, I love this place as much as you do but let's not ignore the fact that HK has quite a few issues of its own and that this government (if you even want to call it that) is one of the most incompetent, corrupt and disgusting administrations of the developed Asian hemisphere, one that is openly in bed with tycoons, filled with greedy, opportunistic bureaucrats who only have their own profits in mind and is currently spearheaded by a guy who apparently thinks it's OK to meet with triads and gamble while in office.

Of course that doesn't matter much (yet..) if you're only all about business, but if you actually care about the place, one that I have now spent half a decade in, its continued downfall is sad to behold. Anyway, didn't mean to get off topic. For business and life (if you can afford it) HK is great but it's also far from the worry-free, politically perfect utopia that you suggest.
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The hk government is corrupt because our chief executive went on a joy ride with a tycoon friend? Come on! This happens all the time in the west! Ronald Reagon had a wealthy friend build a house for him for free for his retirement. Bill Clinton also had tons of sweet heart deals from wealthy well connected friends. And Obama? Lets not even go there. And it's not just the us. Uk PM Tony Blair was very close to Rupert Murdoch.

You can't be serious by calling it one of the most corrupt in Asia. In other Asian countries you have to bribe everyone to get anything done. That is strictly forbidden in hk, and you never have to worry about bribing a civil servant. I am sure as a hk resident you will agree with me in this regard. Civil servants risk jail if they take a bribe and none of them do.

Sounds like you probably don't like the idea of companies hiring retired civil servants either, but again this is not a huge deal for me and it is perfectly legal.

I am perfectly satisfied with the hong kong government, because it leaves me alone and let's me make money. Plus I met the hk chief executive in person and he left a good impression on me.
 
Nope I didn't mean it was corrupt because of that - and Tsang is many things, but probably not corrupt. Things like that or the Henry Tang mess just show that the moral compass here is quite non-existent for most of the political elite (which isn't much better in many other countries, yes). And yes there are many worse countries in regards to corruption but that's why I said "developed" because I was primarily referring to countries like Japan and Korea with a similar living standard and development.

It's certainly not out-in-the-open corruption, but under the shiny surface there's a lot of shady things going on, and a whole slew of other problems. They may not affect you or me or the better-off people here but they do affect the lower and middle classes that actually make up the population. That's not you and me and we certainly don't have to care about it - I am happy too the government just leaves me alone. I am just saying, HK isn't the utopian haven of honesty and democracy that was implied in some of your posts.
 
amorph said:
Nope I didn't mean it was corrupt because of that - and Tsang is many things, but probably not corrupt. Things like that or the Henry Tang mess just show that the moral compass here is quite non-existent for most of the political elite (which isn't much better in many other countries, yes). And yes there are many worse countries in regards to corruption but that's why I said "developed" because I was primarily referring to countries like Japan and Korea with a similar living standard and development.

It's certainly not out-in-the-open corruption, but under the shiny surface there's a lot of shady things going on, and a whole slew of other problems. They may not affect you or me or the better-off people here but they do affect the lower and middle classes that actually make up the population. That's not you and me and we certainly don't have to care about it - I am happy too the government just leaves me alone. I am just saying, HK isn't the utopian haven of honesty and democracy that was implied in some of your posts.
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So how would you compare it to the US? Because in the US the system is what I call indirect or "legalized" corruption - government crony bailouts, union coersion, price supports, etc. It ends up costing the average person far more than the direct corruption in many countries. But it's all legal and there isn't much illegal corruption that goes unpunished (maybe because most activities you might considered corrupt have been legalized?).

Since this started out as a Thailand thread I should comment that Thailand is sort of a middle of the pack direct corruption country. Many things don't require bribes to get done - important things to foreigners like visas and work permits don't need bribes and won't speed anything up. Others things do require a bribe or in some cases a bribe is optional and results in faster service or more convenience. Like getting stopped for speeding - pay the cop 100 baht and drive off or take a ticket, he takes your license, next week you have to go back to the police station to pay your fine of 300 baht and get your license back, royal pain in the ass (been there, done that, several times). Big time corruption exists as high levels of government where millions in kickbacks are paid before any major gov contracts are awarded - costs the tax payers a lot in lost benefit but a pittance compared to western indirect corruption. Back on the home front you want to do some plumbing on your house so you buy some pvc pipe and glue and slap it together, so easy and pretty damn reliable, done tons of it myself and it's still holding after 8 years, the whole country is plumbed like that, no need to have a unionized plumber soldering expensive copper to meet union promulgated plumbing codes. The list goes on and on. Once you get over being indignant about the "injustice" of it you see how smoothly and efficiently it works compared to indirect injustice.
 
amorph said:
And yes there are many worse countries in regards to corruption but that's why I said "developed" because I was primarily referring to countries like Japan and Korea with a similar living standard and development.
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Japan and Korea has A LOT of corruption going on in big business so these are bad examples. Their legal systems are much weaker too. In Japan the conviction rate is 100% if you're arrested, and your court trial is just a show. In Hong Kong you actually get a fair trial, and you're considered innocent until proven guilty.

amorph said:
I am just saying, HK isn't the utopian haven of honesty and democracy that was implied in some of your posts.
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I NEVER said HK was honest nor democratic. And honestly, HK politicans seem really honest compared to what I had to deal with back home. And Henry Tang won't be CE; after basementgate his goose is cooked.

I said HK was far less regulated than the US and and you don't have to worry about the FTC here like you do in the US. Consumer protection is not as overbearing in HK and, which is quite a benefit for IMers. It's not a benefit for the general HK public. But it's great if you run a business, especially an Internet business. You just need to think outside the box a little bit. As far as business is concerned, I find HK very utopian.

Also HK is not fully democratic, and I prefer it to stay this way. It's part of the charm. Democracy could risk HK's economic freedom and turn it into a welfare state like all western democracies.
 
geomark said:
So how would you compare it to the US? Because in the US the system is what I call indirect or "legalized" corruption
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I think it's WAY better than in the US. Partly because in the US the rules for taxation and other regulatory matters are so confusing, you need to spend huge money for accountants and lawyers which makes large firms benefit the most, since they find the loopholes.

In HK the regulations are much simpler and streamlined and every business can benefit, big or small. However some small businesses are very negatively affected by high commercial rents from the property developers. As an Internet business, the expensive office space doesn't affect me like it would a traditonal small business.

Also I find it pretty easy to get in touch with government officials, even the CE, if you put some effort into it. In the US, petitioning government officials is very difficult, especially on the federal level, even though it's guaranteed in the constitution. Only lobbyists for large corporations seem to be able to do it effectively.

Hong Kong doesn't need lobbyists because it's already built into the functional constituency system. In this regard, things are more transparent than in the US.
 
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