Is it true there is a plan to build a mosque complex next to ground zero?

[DKPMO]

Why do you believe they were motivated by religion?

If you were paying attention you might notice that is what the terrorists say themselves.

Gotta do that Jihad thing, you know. Koran made me do it. If I die as martyr, I'll have 72 virgins in heaven, so it all cool.

I don't hate Christians, I hate that people in America think we are at war with Muslims and not specific radical sects.

Nobody of consequence is saying we are at war with Islam. There is a difference between peaceful Muslims and Islamofascists. The problem is telling them apart.

If the people who want to build this mosque truly believed this is the way to bring peace, harmony and understanding, they must be either delusional or stupid or have ulterior motives. This is like inviting your Muslim friend to dinner, professing eternal friendship and then feeding them pork. If you try that in Saudi Arabia they'll behead you right away.

A genuine effort to bring understanding and reconciliation would involve representatives from all religions, include families of 9/11 victims in planning and condemn acts of terrorism instead of trying to distract attention from them. It would not be about building a mosque on the site on 9/11 but some monument that would include all religions and peoples in a co-equal manner.

The project as conceived is an insult to the memory of 3,000 innocent civilians slaughtered in the name of Allah.

If someone can't build a place of worship anywhere in America because of what radical terrorists did then the terrorists have already won. This is what it means to have freedom. It means people are going to do things (for any and all various motivations) and other people are going to be offended by it.

This does not look like an ordinary "place of worship". The symbolism is all about Islamic conquest of infidels, taught by their Koran.

Islam is the easiest thing to blame. The situation is very complex - why are we over simplifying it by blaming Islam and Islam alone?

We are blaming the fascist interpretations of Islam that are unfortunately running the show. FUCK THEM!

 

[amateursurgeon]

That's not what I heard.

I heard they were going to build a 1,500 foot high animated statue of a wanking prophet Mohammed.

Made of pork.

 

[turbolapp]

Come on. You know you want to touch it.

 

[Dispel]

Come on. You know you want to touch it.

Like Muhammad touched Aisha.

 

[Dispel]

Here's a fun book for the Islamist apologists in the house, proclaiming their support for freedom and liberty and those other fluffy bits while unknowingly abetting the systematic suppression and slaughter of these very concepts:

Melville House Publishing | The Flight of the Intellectuals

Twenty years ago, Ayatollah Khomeini called for the assassination of Salman Rushdie—and writers around the world instinctively rallied to Rushdie’s defense. Today, according to writer Paul Berman, “Rushdie has metastasized into an entire social class”—an ever-growing group of sharp-tongued critics of Islamist extremism, especially critics from Muslim backgrounds, who survive only because of pseudonyms and police protection. And yet, instead of being applauded, the Rushdies of today (people like Ayan Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq) often find themselves dismissed as “strident” or as no better than fundamentalist themselves, and contrasted unfavorably with representatives of the Islamist movement who falsely claim to be “moderates.”

How did this happen? In THE FLIGHT OF THE INTELLECTUALS, Berman—“one of America’s leading public intellectuals” (Foreign Affairs)—conducts a searing examination into the intellectual atmosphere of the moment and shows how some of the West’s best thinkers and journalists have fumbled badly in their effort to grapple with Islamist ideas and violence.

Berman’s investigation of the history and nature of the Islamist movement includes some surprising revelations. In examining Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, he shows the rise of an immense and often violent worldview, elements of which survives today in the brigades of al-Qaeda and Hamas. Berman also unearths the shocking story of al-Banna’s associate, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who collaborated personally with Adolf Hitler to incite Arab support of the Nazis’ North African campaign. Echoes of the Grand Mufti’s Nazified Islam can be heard among the followers of al-Banna even today. [Hello CAIR!]

In a gripping and stylish narrative Berman also shows the legacy of these political traditions, most importantly by focusing on a single philosopher, who happens to be Hassan al-Banna’s grandson, Oxford professor Tariq Ramadan—a figure widely celebrated in the West as a “moderate” despite his troubling ties to the Islamist movement. Looking closely into what Ramadan has actually written and said, Berman contrasts the reality of Ramadan with his image in the press.

In doing so, THE FLIGHT OF THE INTELLECTUALS sheds light on a number of modern issues—on the massively reinvigorated anti-Semitism of our own time, on a newly fashionable turn against women’s rights, and on the difficulties we have in discussing terrorism—and presents a stunning commentary about the modern media’s peculiar inability to detect and analyze some of the most dangerous ideas in contemporary society.

Fucking 'intellectuals'.

 

[DKPMO]

Do not forget the good Ayatollah instructions for sex with children and animals -

The Ayatollah Khomeini’s Book:Sex with Children and Animals | UNCOVERAGE.net

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]

A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.

If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned.
Wine and all intoxicating beverages are impure, but opium and hashish are not.

If a man sodomises the son, brother, or father of his wife after their marriage, the marriage remains valid.

Are they going to teach that at 9/11 mosque too?

 

[Dispel]

Well, the Ayatollah is a Shia and this is a Sunni mosque, so I doubt it, but yeah, that Little Green book is fucked up.

Lets not get too side-tracked though.

More concerning in the present case is the founders' connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb-ut-Tahrir (banned in all countries they have a substantial presence in). The stated goals of each is the domination of Islam over the whole world, via a Caliphate in the case of HuT and generally via the 'soft Jihad', into which category the establishment of this mosque would fall into.

 

[popeye]

Well, the Ayatollah is a Shia and this is a Sunni mosque, so I doubt it, but yeah, that Little Green book is fucked up.

Lets not get too side-tracked though.

More concerning in the present case is the founders' connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb-ut-Tahrir (banned in all countries they have a substantial presence in). The stated goals of each is the domination of Islam over the whole world, via a Caliphate in the case of HuT and generally via the 'soft Jihad', into which category the establishment of this mosque would fall into.

but..but..but...those christians rang my doorbell and left a damn pamphlet on my doorstep !!1!!!!1!

 

[Dispel]

but..but..but...those christians rang my doorbell and left a damn pamphlet on my doorstep !!1!!!!1!

Meh. They just want to save my soul.

The Islamists want me to stop drinking alcohol and grow a beard. This is serious, mum.

 

[TLott]

If you were paying attention you might notice that is what the terrorists say themselves.

Gotta do that Jihad thing, you know. Koran made me do it. If I die as martyr, I'll have 72 virgins in heaven, so it all cool.

That is just not true. For instance, look at the transcripts of most any of the Bin Laden speeches and you will see his political motivations very clearly outlined. Not defending the guy, but it is helpful to try to understand the opposing viewpoint. You can also clearly see how he distorts the religion to suit himself.

These are political/economic issues. Not religious ones.

The religion is being distorted as a recruiting tool.

I've traveled through a good amount of the Muslim world... these are by and large good people and do not deserve the labels we are giving them. It is sad to see the assumptions that are made about the people as a whole.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

That is just not true. For instance, look at the transcripts of most any of the Bin Laden speeches and you will see his political motivations very clearly outlined. Not defending the guy, but it is helpful to try to understand the opposing viewpoint. You can also clearly see how he distorts the religion to suit himself.

These are political/economic issues. Not religious ones.

The religion is being distorted as a recruiting tool.

I've traveled through a good amount of the Muslim world... these are by and large good people and do not deserve the labels we are giving them. It is sad to see the assumptions that are made about the people as a whole.

In Islam, Politics and religion are one. They are not separate things.

 

[mpbiz]

but..but..but...those christians rang my doorbell and left a damn pamphlet on my doorstep !!1!!!!1!

lol i get mormons at my front door all the time. i wouldnt mess with them though dude they wear protective underwear

 

[medicalhumor]

It would be more important for people to perhaps be sensitive to Americans' feelings about 9/11 and radical Islamic extremists and maybe understand that building a symbol of a religion whose twisted adherents murdered 3,000 Americans right on the site of said murder MAYBE isn't the brightest idea.

It's interesting how quick many are to insinuate Americans are bigoted and racist when they object to a mosque being built upon sacred ground. Clearly the owners of the proposed mosque aren't terrorists(I'm assuming), but then again when 3,000 of your fellow citizens were slaughtered by twisted adherents of a particular religion, certain New Yorkers might not be in the mood to appreciate your exquisite nuance.

Just understand most New Yorkers are pretty bitter about what happened and try not to inflame them. It doesn't mean you can't build mosques anywhere, but damn, do these people have any respect for New Yorkers feelings? I would think that whomever is behind the plans to build the mosque would be culturally sensitive enough to know that Ground Zero might not be the best spot.

The fact that people might draw this connection and the mosque planners went ahead anyways KNOWING the controversy it would cause is the suspect part. There's thousands of places to build a mosque, and the fact that they intentionally chose that spot just doesn't sit right with a lot of people.

As for the list somebody posted of supposed Muslim grief over 9/11, I'm not sure where you dug that up from since it was never displayed in any mainstream medium: television, radio, newspaper, whatever. It's awesome that you could actually find that list, but it doesn't mean anything if those people didn't have the balls to go on a national stage and make a stand.

Of all the places in the world to want to build a mosque...of course it's a slap in the face.

I'm NOT suggesting that this isn't an insensitive place for a mosque. My whole rant before was that lotsofzeros made a big deal about NEVER hearing ANY Musilm speak out against terrorism, and that just is not true, and I proved it. What did I get in response? More hate thrown back at me for it.

I personally think building a Mosque there, or even suggesting they build one there is completely out of line and while they may have every right to build there, it's not in anyone's best interest.

I was living in NY during 9/11 and I saw the second tower fall with my own eyes. It was the worst fucking thing I have ever witnessed in my life. Just because I'm liberal and Hellblazer and Popeye feel the need to call me or anyone else with an opposing viewpoint a fucking retard, or whatever their current hatefilled word of the day may be, doesn't mean I side with terrorists, defend terrorism, or hate this country. I wholeheartedly condemn any form of violence or terrorism. They feel they need to paint everyone that they don't agree with with one broad brush stroke, but this is their weakness, not mine.

I showed you a huge list of Muslims and Islamic groups that condemned terrorism, and honestly, people like Popeye and Hellblazer and Lotsofzeros don't want to see any of that, because it just proves they are wrong. They should be happy that these groups oppose and speak out against terrorism, but then they would have less to bitch and moan about, and that just won't ever happen

 

[popeye]

I'm NOT suggesting that this isn't an insensitive place for a mosque. My whole rant before was that lotsofzeros made a big deal about NEVER hearing ANY Musilm speak out against terrorism, and that just is not true, and I proved it. What did I get in response? More hate thrown back at me for it.

I personally think building a Mosque there, or even suggesting they build one there is completely out of line and while they may have every right to build there, it's not in anyone's best interest.

I was living in NY during 9/11 and I saw the second tower fall with my own eyes. It was the worst fucking thing I have ever witnessed in my life. Just because I'm liberal and Hellblazer and Popeye feel the need to call me or anyone else with an opposing viewpoint a fucking retard, or whatever their current hatefilled word of the day may be, doesn't mean I side with terrorists, defend terrorism, or hate this country. I wholeheartedly condemn any form of violence or terrorism. They feel they need to paint everyone that they don't agree with with one broad brush stroke, but this is their weakness, not mine.

I showed you a huge list of Muslims and Islamic groups that condemned terrorism, and honestly, people like Popeye and Hellblazer and Lotsofzeros don't want to see any of that, because it just proves they are wrong. They should be happy that these groups oppose and speak out against terrorism, but then they would have less to bitch and moan about, and that just won't ever happen

Sure their are a few groups that have come out against the extremist and made a 5 minute speech to pacify the public and the goverment. As a whole though, most are either sitting on their hands (possibly afraid of extremist blow back) or agree with hamas and the rest of the terrorist.

I would like to see a poll to see how many muslims agree with hamas. I would think that it is very high. Unfortunately for the peaceful muslims, the extremist have took over. Just like the extremist, radical progressives have taken over the Democratic party.

 

[DKPMO]

I'm NOT suggesting that this isn't an insensitive place for a mosque. My whole rant before was that lotsofzeros made a big deal about NEVER hearing ANY Musilm speak out against terrorism, and that just is not true, and I proved it. What did I get in response? More hate thrown back at me for it.

I personally think building a Mosque there, or even suggesting they build one there is completely out of line and while they may have every right to build there, it's not in anyone's best interest.

I was living in NY during 9/11 and I saw the second tower fall with my own eyes. It was the worst fucking thing I have ever witnessed in my life. Just because I'm liberal and Hellblazer and Popeye feel the need to call me or anyone else with an opposing viewpoint a fucking retard, or whatever their current hatefilled word of the day may be, doesn't mean I side with terrorists, defend terrorism, or hate this country. I wholeheartedly condemn any form of violence or terrorism. They feel they need to paint everyone that they don't agree with with one broad brush stroke, but this is their weakness, not mine.

I showed you a huge list of Muslims and Islamic groups that condemned terrorism, and honestly, people like Popeye and Hellblazer and Lotsofzeros don't want to see any of that, because it just proves they are wrong. They should be happy that these groups oppose and speak out against terrorism, but then they would have less to bitch and moan about, and that just won't ever happen

The real problem is that the people like yourself have a defeatist mindset of appeasement.

You are against this mosque, but instead of saying it point-blank from the start you go looking for excuses to blame America first and find reasons to justify its construction? That is exactly the kind of weakness Islamofascists are preying on. Learn to be proud of your country and do not fall for the bait of political correctness. OMG! If I speak up against building a mosque someone might think I am not open-minded and tolerant of religions! OH NOES! OH NOES! OH NOES!

Americans should stand together against terrorism and threats to our way of life. We should not let enemies divide us, including by the use of suberfuge and masking a major statement of political dominance as a "peace and reconciliation project". UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!

Remember what Sir Winston Churchill said: "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last"

 

[hellblazer]

I showed you a huge list of Muslims and Islamic groups that condemned terrorism, and honestly, people like Popeye and Hellblazer and Lotsofzeros don't want to see any of that, because it just proves they are wrong. They should be happy that these groups oppose and speak out against terrorism, but then they would have less to bitch and moan about, and that just won't ever happen

That's awesome you could find that list. I just wonder why no other living person on the planet could name one person on that list. I wonder why I never saw one of those people on CNN, NBC, ABC, or any other one of the garbage networks.

Were they too cowardly to condemn their Islamic brethren? Or were the networks pursuing an agenda? Either way, nobody's heard of anyone in that epistle you heard, so it means little to nothing that they registered their outrage in a safe place where nobody saw it. I know I never saw shit in the New York Times, the L.A. Times, or any other liberal rags. They were too busy sympathizing with Mohammed Atta, or wondering why the Times Square bomber was angry, or why the Fort Hood shooter was having a difficult time. That's what matters. The shit that people see. Not some list that may or may not be real that was hidden away out of sight and whipped out at a convenient time.

As for bemoaning the insults, please. The Left has perfected personal attacks as a strategy, it's become my pleasure to use their own tactics on them.

 

[riddarhusetgal]

Medical you have the patience of a saint - I admire you....

 

[medicalhumor]

Hellblazer, as expected from you. You and Popeye have such a narrow focus and an even narrower tolerance for anyone different from you. Believe what you must if it pleases you. I honestly don't care what you think.

you go looking for excuses to blame America first and find reasons to justify its construction?

This you are just plain making up. nowhere did I do any of this.

Americans should stand together against terrorism and threats to our way of life. We should not let enemies divide us,

thing is, you see ALL Muslims as your enemy, rather than the few that are doing these horrible acts, whereas, I can differentiate the good from the bad.

 

[DKPMO]

Hellblazer, as expected from you. You and Popeye have such a narrow focus and an even narrower tolerance for anyone different from you. Believe what you must if it pleases you. I honestly don't care what you think.

This you are just plain making up. nowhere did I do any of this.

thing is, you see ALL Muslims as your enemy, rather than the few that are doing these horrible acts, whereas, I can differentiate the good from the bad.

It is pretty clear from your posts in this thread that you find it more worthwhile to attack your fellow Americans who disagree with some of your political views, instead of just stating point-blank that building this mosque is plain wrong and just leave it at that.

You are too quick to see people like the sponsors of this mosque as your friends and apparently have no interest in challenging them to see if their friendship is in fact genuine. If someone says they are a friend that must be true! No need to check if they might stab you in the back! That would be politically incorrect and not very open-minded! It is better to get stabbed!

So much safer to challenge and insult your fellow Americans! They are not going to bomb or behead you, so nothing to be afraid of!

Here is your mindset explained: Are you a Democrat, Republican or Redneck? Take this test! | OlyBlog

 

[ianshanging]

While there might be backwards muslims trying to take out a larger number of people at once. There's a lot of every day fucked up shit that goes on here in the U.S, like murders, robbery, raping, molesting (remember all that stuff going down about Christian Preachers?), serial killers (almost all white) etc.. that is done regularly by whites, blacks, hispanics etc.. whenever I watch Americas Most Wanted or turn the news on, that's who I usually see.

So, those other people don't have a religious motivation but, that's not a problem then? They're all exempt? As long as you do it for fun it's all good? They're all taking each other out on a smaller scale one at a time every day and then you have another group with a handful of people trying to take out a larger number of people at once. Everybody is in the wrong here.

There's just some people that don't care and there's nothing you can do, that's the bottom line. You can blame whoever, whatever, scapegoat whatever you want. It has to be in your personality to be malicious. The mind has a way of rationalizing whatever it wants to do, that includes manipulating perception to their true intentions, whatever makes it 'right' to them. That's just how people that are fucked up think and do. I think it takes a special kind of fucked up individual to do this henious shit but, that's who they really are at the end of the day. They convinced themselves to do whatever they wanted to do.