Is it true there is a plan to build a mosque complex next to ground zero?

[emp]

... snip ...

Get this through you thick fucking skulls. There is no such thing as the separation of Mosque and state, the concept is foreign to the Islamic world and Sharia Law is the foundation of that unity.

..snip...

Actually, the seperation of church and state we have in the western world today is a very new invention.

Study your history (especially European history) to see how church and state were one in Christian lands as well.

Only the seperation brings the modern state, and some islamic states are working towards that goal as well. Whcih would then make them "states" which just happen to have the Islam as the dominant religion.

However, there are always the brainwashed religious types who want this seperation gone.

In the US, just think Creationists (Religion influencing state-funded education) or radical Christian pro-lifers.

What worries me is how easy it comes over that "those terrorists were Muslims, so all Muslims are terrorists and Islam needs to be destroyed!!".

Going with that doctrine, let's destroy Christianity for those pro-Lifers who burnt down clinics and murdered gynecologists. After all, those people are terrorists and Christian, so all Christians are terrorists, so Christianity should be destroyed.

Fine by me.

::emp::

 

[ianshanging]

What worries me is how easy it comes over that "those terrorists were Muslims, so all Muslims are terrorists and Islam needs to be destroyed!!".

Going with that doctrine, let's destroy Christianity for those pro-Lifers who burnt down clinics and murdered gynecologists. After all, those people are terrorists and Christian, so all Christians are terrorists, so Christianity should be destroyed.

Fine by me.

::emp::

What about all that shit that went on about Christian preachers molesting young boys. Did anybody go on a rampage saying all Christians are molesters and Christianity needs to be destroyed? All I recall in the end is a lot of stand-up comics making jokes about it.

In the end, I think it's the individual(s) at fault. You can't blame anything, everybody is responsible for their own actions.

 

[ianshanging]

Also just to stay on topic, no I don't feel that putting up a mosque there is the right decision. All parties should equally benefit if it's genuinely the right thing to do, and I don't see everybody benefiting equally either emotionally or otherwise on this move. Yes, according to freedom rights I guess they can but, I mean if there's any possibility of drama being involved, then why go there? Whatever it takes for peace should be the bottom line.

However this thread started turning towards racism so I said what I said in the previous posts.

 

[emp]

Good point.

I do concur that putting a mosque there is not the smartest move and in bad taste.

::emp::

 

[ricdes]

you guys make me really wonder if I can make money by arguing all day on WF

 

[emp]

no. no you can't.



::emp::

 

[LotsOfZeros]

you guys make me really wonder if I can make money by arguing all day on WF

I run ads to the terrorist appeaser niche so yes, reading this thread is helping me better understand the psyche of the .0000001% of Americans that are completely delusional.

I have already captured Janet Napolitano & Eric Holder on my marketing list, just trying to scrape the barrel for those other three.

 

[turbolapp]

You guys realize that no one is putting a mosque "there" ? and that it's a couple blocks a way from ground zero, right?...which, proportionally, with NY real estate, that's a pretty significant distance.

 

[Dispel]

Actually, the seperation of church and state we have in the western world today is a very new invention.

Study your history (especially European history) to see how church and state were one in Christian lands as well.

Fairly sure I am more across that history than you are. If you actually knew the history of Islam and Western Civilization you'd be on the other side of this argument.

actually, here's a Christian explaining why secularization arose in the Christian world and not say in the Islamic of Hindu:
- Christian perspectives on secularisation vs declericalisation.

Only the seperation brings the modern state, and some islamic states are working towards that goal as well. Whcih would then make them "states" which just happen to have the Islam as the dominant religion.

The only thing that has ever superseded the tyranny of Islam is a tyranny greater still. Such as the tyranny of Soviet Communism in Central Asia. Did they succeed? Temporarily. Yet the cancer is slowing creeping back over those countries. Or the ultra-secularist tyranny of the military in Kemalist Turkey.
Every time the Islamists rise there the military has a coup, for 80 years. They murdered and jailed and silenced the mullahs for generations. Did they succeed? Nope. The Islamists are back in power. The religious ones have way more kids. The seculalists are dying out. Soon it will be curtain call for "Western" freedoms in Turkey.

Actually the 'secular' Muslim in the Muslim countries understand the thread from the Islamists far better than Westerners do. Its more so in the West that misguided idiot leftists lap up Islamist propaganda and play right into their hands.

However, there are always the brainwashed religious types who want this seperation gone.

In the US, just think Creationists (Religion influencing state-funded education) or radical Christian pro-lifers.

What worries me is how easy it comes over that "those terrorists were Muslims, so all Muslims are terrorists and Islam needs to be destroyed!!".

My problem with Islam is not that a minority of Muslims want to use terrorism to install a tyrannical authoritarian Islamo-Fascist government. Its that most Muslims in the world want to install a tyrannical authoritarian Islamo-Fascist government, full stop. Yes, most Muslims in the world. And Islam has an air tight brainwashing program that kicks in from birth that insures that future adherents fall in line with the rest of the fanatics, lie in most cults. It really is quite frightening when you study it and try to debate those people. The violent outbursts at the slightest criticism are quite telling, although you get used to it after a while. Hell, I even learn to use their scriptures against them - just work out what sect they're from and poke holes in it - drives them insane. But I digress.

Whether they get their way via the 'womb Jihad', the 'soft Jihad', the Salafist-Jihadist terror or what ever other way they think off. Whenever a Muslim population gets large enough in ANY country the result is violence is anyway - there's always a few impatient ones.

Oh and I didn't say Islam must be destroyed. Islam must be shat upon its forced to eat its own head and grow through an Enlightenment and learn to question itself and allow its adherents to have actual thought. Then a separation of mosque and state may be possible. You claim to know history, so maybe you understand what I am talking about. A new kind of Islam must be battered out of the current mess, similar to what was done to Christianity. And Muslims leading the way - some even call themselves "Enlightenment Muslims" - must be supported, not shouted down because of retarded Politically Correct sensitivies. NO TOLERANCE FOR INTOLERANCE. Thats the foundation of freedom.

Going with that doctrine, let's destroy Christianity for those pro-Lifers who burnt down clinics and murdered gynecologists. After all, those people are terrorists and Christian, so all Christians are terrorists, so Christianity should be destroyed.

Fine by me.

So what you're basically saying is that you don't really know anything about Islam. Why else would you compare it with Christianity? There is little reason to so in this day and age - 400 years ago.. maybe. Now - nope, not relavant. I mean, one is a religion. The other is an ultra-authoritarian repressive dogmatic political ideology. Why people keep comparing I really don't know.

 

[medicalhumor]

typical conservative mindset, keep repeating the same lies over and over enough hoping people will believe the message and not the truth.

It is pretty clear from your posts in this thread that you find it more worthwhile to attack your fellow Americans who disagree with some of your political views, instead of just stating point-blank that building this mosque is plain wrong and just leave it at that.

You are too quick to see people like the sponsors of this mosque as your friends and apparently have no interest in challenging them to see if their friendship is in fact genuine. If someone says they are a friend that must be true! No need to check if they might stab you in the back! That would be politically incorrect and not very open-minded! It is better to get stabbed!

So much safer to challenge and insult your fellow Americans! They are not going to bomb or behead you, so nothing to be afraid of!

... much easier to challenge and insult your fellow Americans that see things differently than you

 

[medicalhumor]

they don't give a shit if you drink or shave or jerk off to brittany spears.

it's their personal choice to not do those things themselves. but keep spreading the love buddy

Meh. They just want to save my soul.

The Islamists want me to stop drinking alcohol and grow a beard. This is serious, mum.

 

[DKPMO]

you guys make me really wonder if I can make money by arguing all day on WF

Sigh. I cannot believe I got suckered into spending time on this thread. I guess Islamo-Fascism appeaser morons really annoy me that much :bowdown:

+rep for reminding everyone about the priorities :drinkup:

 

[hellblazer]

Hellblazer, as expected from you. You and Popeye have such a narrow focus and an even narrower tolerance for anyone different from you. Believe what you must if it pleases you. I honestly don't care what you think.

This you are just plain making up. nowhere did I do any of this.

thing is, you see ALL Muslims as your enemy, rather than the few that are doing these horrible acts, whereas, I can differentiate the good from the bad.

You're not "different", you're wrong, and furthermore, your ideas are dangerous. Don't get it twisted. You didn't address a single concept in my post, just keep playing the victim card and hope you can somehow win this argument fueled purely by sympathy tears from riddar.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

I can't figure some of you guys out.

First you protect America's freedom of speech in the draw muhammed thread.

Then you come over here and say a certain religion can't build a building in a certain spot, even though it's entirely legal for them to do so... ?

Fuck this nonsense - time to get drunk.

 

[Moxie]

I wonder why I never saw one of those people on CNN, NBC, ABC, or any other one of the garbage networks.

Were they too cowardly to condemn their Islamic brethren? Or were the networks pursuing an agenda? Either way, nobody's heard of anyone in that epistle you heard, so it means little to nothing that they registered their outrage in a safe place where nobody saw it. I know I never saw shit in the New York Times, the L.A. Times, or any other liberal rags. They were too busy sympathizing with Mohammed Atta,

After 9/11, the networks nonstop coverage for weeks included having english speaking Muslim leaders and such as guests on various programs. A major story would had been if one of them had went on tv and defended 9/11.

There's 3,750 search results on the New York Times archive right now that contain all three of the following words : condemn, attack, Muslim

I'd reckon that at least of a few of those have to do with Muslims condemning terror attacks.


Islamic states condemn attack on Danish cartoonist - CNN.com

 

[medicalhumor]

That's awesome you could find that list. I just wonder why no other living person on the planet could name one person on that list. I wonder why I never saw one of those people on CNN, NBC, ABC, or any other one of the garbage networks.

because you don't see what you don't want to see

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_kQjkbjfBg&feature=related"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

.
.
and you're right, no one has ever hear of these people:
Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Muhammad Ali, Hakeem Olajuwon of the Houston Rockets
Muslim charities who solicited donations to help victims in New York City

 

[hellblazer]

A video from 2010? Try again, apologists.

 

[ianshanging]

A video from 2010? Try again, apologists.

Do you really think stating that stuff on public networks (tv) like you're saying is going to make an actual difference? Those people need to be focusing on their own communities and making a change and being a positive influence with the people they are in contact with in their day to day lives. Wasting their time on prime-time television will not make a real difference, except for publicity purposes. It would just look fake, you can't take what you see on tv as truth.

 

[Dispel]

they don't give a shit if you drink or shave or jerk off to brittany spears.

it's their personal choice to not do those things themselves.

Not, its not their personal choice, you ignorant fuck. By letting you do that THEY themselves are disobeying Allah and his Prophet.
Its their instruction from Allah to enforce Islam over the whole world and enforce Allah's laws over all humanity. You have the freedom to live with your own beliefs (well, if you're a Jew or Christian - people of the Book, its questionable if you're actually an atheist), as long you submit to their full authority as a 'dhimmi' and pay the jizyah tax. Islam is a militant, proselytizing 'religion'/cult. It is the duty of every Muslim to spread 'Dawah' and the more fundamentalist see it their duty to enforce it also.

Persecution of non-Muslims - WikiIslam
explains it quite well really:

According to Islamic laws, non-Muslims in Islamic Lands should be subdued and be treated like Dhimmis, or second class citizens. They should be coerced and intimidated to convert to Islam, through special humiliating taxes like Jizya imposed on them. This has been happening in the Islamic World since the last 1400 years. While Muslims demand equal rights in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims are systematically persecuted, terrorized and ethnically cleansed from Islamic Lands. With the recent rise of Muslim populations in the traditionally Christian/Secular West, also comes the noticeable rise of Islamic violence and terrorist activities aimed towards the non-Muslims.

See if you had the least bit of understanding of Islam you wouldn't say something that ignorant and stupid.

Maybe if you lived in some parts of France where people throw stones at you for wearing a mini-skirt and thus being a Western whore you'd understand.

Or if your art gallery had its windows broken for having offensive art (ie nude/gay/religious etc).

Or if you lived here in Sydney and saw the Muslim Brotherhood gangs walk down the streets and beat people up for looking gay. Please. Explain the socio-economic reasons that Muslims hate gays so much and feel the need to beat them up. I am really curious.
Bringing Beirut to NSW | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog

Or you knew someone who's been attacked for whatever one of a million ways they could have offended Islam and had to then go into hiding or hire security.

Or someone you knew in Southern Iraq was shot for wearing 'Western' tight jeans now that the Baathist military secular dictatorship is no longer holding back the fundamentalists.

Or given dirty looks/spat on/raped/beaten/etc for not wearing a hijab.

Or you were a Coptic Christian in Egypt and you were attacked for trying to REBUILD (not build a new one) your Church. See Islam forbids buildings from other religions or even their renovation.
Christian Killed in Islamist Raids on Egypt Churches

"The attacker stormed the church armed with a knife and shouted 'There is no God but Allah' and 'Allah is the greatest' before stabbing the worshipers," one of the Mar Girgis church employees said.

(I know. They did it because they're poor and oppressed. Send more aid.)
The predicament of Egypt's Christian minority - Cover Story | Christian Century | Find Articles at BNET
LACopts.org | Muslim Extremists Attack Coptic Christians Over Church Fence in Marsa Matrouh
Philippines: Misunderstanders of Islam attack city, destroy cathedral - Jihad Watch

Or if you were the last of the Zoroastrians in Persia.

Or if you were one of the many Christian Lebanese now leaving because its all getting a bit useless in the face of the demographic swamping of the country by the Shia.

Or beaten by the Dawah police for one of a million reason in Saudi Arabia.

You'll make a good obedient little dhimmi, you ignorant fool. Its all fine and dandy for fools like, until they become numerous enough to start imposing their 'superior' way off life. Just look at parts of Europe. All the no-go zones in France, Denmark, Sweden, Spain, were non-Muslim fear to enter because they would be attacked - even ambulances cannot go in. Start small. Take some territory, then expand, by any means necessary. The Jihad is never-ending and its spirit is cultural, so its easy to confuse the motivations as being 'socio-economic'. But Polish migrants congregate in their neighbourhoods and attack ambulances that drive in there? Or impose their beliefs on any one at all? Dont think so.

a nice model of Islamization - how it happened to previously Christian Egypt (and is now happening in Europe):
The rise of Islam in Egypt, and Islamic persecution of Christians. Why were you born in Islam?

as you like links, here's some more:

Non-Muslims under Islam
Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PersecutedbyIslam

 

[emp]

Why .. the fuck?

I am trying to keep from the ad hominem attacks, but some people are making this difficult.

You keep citing "Islamic law" as if it was unchangeable. Guess what? A lot of Muslim countries do NOT follow the Sharia law as it is in the Q'uran, but have a worldly authority, as in "laws the government passes".

Christian countries also do not follow "Christian law" as it is in the bible (stoning of adulterers, etc..).

And please, do not call people things such as "terrorist appeasers" .. what a bunch of shit.

I am not excusing anything a terrorist does or did, least of all 9/11.

But Muslim does not equal terrorist, the same as Christian does not eqal pedophile.

::emp::