Female Affiliate Managers, etc...

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HarveyJ said:
Seriously though, Jon, what prompted this message? And what prompted you to post it now?
Is it just threads like the "My AM is hotter than yours" or whatever it was that got posted a month or two ago?
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Nothing or no one in particular prompted me.

But I have been seeing it happen a lot more often, so I figured I'd say something publicly about it for once.

If I were a chick, I'd have gone on a lawsuit-a-thon by now, but there have only been a few of them so far and all have been settled out of court as far as I know.

I definitely don't want to see a network get sued over it, so I figured if I post about it now, shed some light onto it before all of the major conferences start, maybe.. just maybe... someone will take it seriously and change their ways.

I made the mistake of making that thread back in Jan 2007 about "hottest AM of the month". I remember the results and what happened, and that's why I never made it again. It just brought the wrong kind of attention.

Same goes for a few AM's I know of that are so popular on FB and AIM that they literally have to spend 1/2 their day "being nice" by telling these guys to fuck off instead of actually doing what they were hired to do, which is manage affiliates.

For all those guys who use their AM's as "someone to talk to" -- Get a fucking therapist.

For all those guys who want the attention from their female AM's -- Get a fucking babysitter.

Because all these retards who annoy the women and make them "chat" with them over nothing, they cause more harm to the REAL affiliates who actually drive traffic and make cash.

Lets just be clear here..

This is a business. Not high school (not including WF - we can harass everyone). The more networks allow this shit to happen IN and OUT of their offices without doing anything about it, the worse it will be for them in the longrun.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the serious affiliates don't spend their days fucking around on IM's with your female AM's and hitting on them, only the people who waste time and don't actually produce much do that. Its always been like that and always will be like that unless you network owners or managers put an end to it.

At conferences its rampant too, except its worse because then these AM's have to go to dinner/lunch with these retards so they feel special on and offline. Meanwhile the bigger players are overlooked because they tend to keep to themselves and listen, rather talk a whole lot.

Whatever.. everyone can do whatever they want, I really don't care.. But to sit around and hear my friends taking this shit, day in and day out and being too afraid to say anything all this time, I figured I should, because maybe some of you guys who treat women like shit will listen to it coming from me instead.

This is just one of the many major issues I just can't stomach anymore.. We'll see what I rant about next. Maybe how pissed I am at so many of the networks for the increased and blatant shaving of stats going on? Or maybe how easy it is to find and remove seeds from mailer lists? Time will tell. Just do yourselves a favor and stop treating your female AM's like whores already, if anything, do it to the men, I'm sure they won't mind. ;)
 


Jon is now the wet dream of all female AM's out there. Brilliant fucking plan!
 
To be straightforward, if there is a girl who I think I might be interested in - be it my AM, my neighbor, or a lady I run into at the store - I will try to strike up a conversation with her.

I can see how it can annoy you (Jon) if you see affiliates crossing the line of trying to converse with someone and just being a pushy pervert all the time, but its not like the lady AMs are going to lower their standards for guys like that anyways.

I do agree that sending pics is crossing the line.

To me, saying that you can't try to get with your AM because the affiliate marketing world is a world of business is like saying you can't get with girls you go to school with because school is a place of education.
 
Like most stereotypes they usually stem from some truth. I am an affiliate and find that more times than not the female am's I deal with are extremely flirty once they find out how much traffic we can send. So, I agree with Jon that the sexual harassment isn't cool but the chick am's should stop blowing people for traffic if they don't want to be harassed. For those who don't give sexual favors for traffic then pass on the account to another am if your being harrassed or get a new job if its coming from your boss.
 
In all honesty, this will not stop until the women of the industry stand up for themselves. Eight years ago there were only maybe 5 women that were account managers or higher ups at any network that was worth dealing with. Almost overnight the networks dumped hordes of women on the AM. **They probably saw how well these women worked a room at Adtech (read Frontline Media)** They purposely hired young women that were going to be eager to be successful almost with a do anything attitude. It has gotten progressively worse year after year since then. And until the women of the industry stand up and stop it themselves by either telling the affiliates or the networks they work for to fuck off, it will not stop.

But lets not fool ourselves. ALOT of these girls work this angle and work it well.
 
Jon: Fair enough. Better late than ever, huh?
And yeah, it's probably for the best that a man says something about this. I get the feeling that if a woman brought this up, the industry response would be a bit of trepidation with "how do we shut the bitch up?"

Conversely though, Matt's raised an interesting point.
So long as you know to back the hell off (and I know, a lot of socially retarded guys don't), is there actually something wrong with making a pass at your AM?

fights4fun: Ahhh, but which network is the one you're going to send your traffic to: The one with the hot chick that make come hither motions? Or the one with a fat ugly nerd that says he knows how to improve your CTR?

Turbo: Sign up under me, as your AM I wouldn't mind if you sexually harassed me all day long ;) heheh
 
To be very very honest, most of the female AMs are nice as hell. Atleast i wouldnt be harassing or treating them like whores. If they wanna be your friend they'll talk to u and communicate with you, if not then people just needs to fuck off..

My respect to all the ladies!
 
Hmmm...

Difficult one here.

I hate it when women are treated this way, so good post.

But for one, I would not get all upset about flirting, although flirting via IM with someone..naaah.

But treating women as whores or sluts (as you put it) cyberstalking, sending unwanted pictures or making sexual comments online... definitely a no go.

Somehow, I always feel ashamed for my fellow men who are like that. Even really, really embarrassed at times.

Get a grip, guys and no, I don't mean a grip on your dick.

Get your life together and start stalking some neighborhood chicks instead.
tsk, some people..

::emp::
 
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Just because you may be an "earner" of some sort, does NOT give you the right to hit on the AM's. No one cares how much money you make or can make. I can assure you, when you talk about it to them, they are just laughing at you inside and hoping to hell that you will not try and dance with them at a party.
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You are WRONG! They do care about what you're making if you're making some serious dough and I bet that they would want to show you off AND dance with you at a party. Why in the world would they laugh at you when they know you're making a lot of money?
 
I, for one, am not guilty of the OP.

Because I'm such a nerd that I'm even nervous talking to chicks online.

How's that for honesty, bastards?
 
Interesting discussion.

On one hand it would be difficult for the female AMs to tell their asshole clients to fuck off and still keep their job. On the other I've seen some of these ladies at these conventions and their signals could be a bit confusing even for the most suave of gentlemen. So I can imagine what it might to do to some of the social retards that sometimes goes along in this industry.

Ladies, I suggest you just become an affiliate instead. That way you can be like me and tell them to fuck off and still make a good living. ;)
 
Deleted Nicky and Glowleaf's posts.. not because I disagreed, but because they were bashing me specifically due to some pent up issues that they need to confront me about one on one instead of taking shots at me on the forum. I'm not going to fight on here with you guys, so either IM or call me.
 
Well, thanks Jon for posting about this. And I agree that being an affiliate is where it's at for women, and yes, there are quite a few of us around. Maybe we have more to do in our 'offline' lives, so we don't keep up a high profile online.

But anyway.... I remember back when I was a computer consultant at oil companies, and some of the female software reps and large company conultants (yes, even Oracle Reps) would wear business suits that looked like they came from Fredericks of Hollywood. I'm not sure if they could tune a SQL statement, but they got attention.

So the point is...nothing is new. There is a lot of acceptable behavior that people can engage in somewhere between acting like a dick or a whore.... try to figure out what that is.
 
Here, Here, Jon. Good Post.

Good issue to bring to light in our industry. This is definitely something that needs to be addressed quickly. I wonder how networks and agencies alike will respond, if at all. It will be interesting to see.

This is especially important now that interactive advertising and affiliate marketing is starting to get some major credibility in mainstream media as a valuable resource to any companies ad budget. ROAS is bigger now more than ever, especially with our economy in dire straights. What better way to do that than with CPA marketing. (ie; Google Affiliate Network, Online marketers unhappy with Microhoo saga outcome | News - Digital Media - CNET News )

It has been "cowboys and indians" for a while but now will we have to bow down to the madison avenue, boardroom types? Trade Associations? Set standards and ethics? Is this a bad thing? Maybe not.

Not to digress, Jon, but this post follows your thoughts on why you wanted to leave WF all together and pursue other opportunities.

Cheers brother and to all WF fans!


From the lurker who rarely speaks,

J.P. Diaz
 
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