Adiakritos Journal

Welcome to the world of "i'll know what i want when i see it".

If you dont get your design brief process sorted, you'll make more money flipping burgers.

1st get a DETAILED brief from your client. Do this by asking a lot of SPECIFIC questions.
99% of clients DO know what they want but DONT know how to describe it - so you have to help them.

Dont even load PS before you have a wireframe signed off, your just wasting time.

In an earlier post i mention wireframing with fireworks, but you can use anything really, i normally start with pen and paper.
Here is a random google images example of a wireframe:

wireframe.jpg


Some people make them even more basic, but i find a bit of detail helps get the idea across better to clients.
 


> real simple and more like a cigar site... like a cigar site.. more like a cigar site.... "
> and he sort of just repeated that over and over

You're lucky to get such a knowledgeable client on your first site.
It all goes downhill from here.

Talk to some designers - you've never met such a bunch of miserable bastards in your life, seemingly imprisoned between being skilful and innovative and yet having to satisfy pond-scum clients who don't know their arse from their elbow, and somehow figure that as soon as they give you a couple of dollars that they own you until you produce the next facebook or youtube for them.

A somewhat humorous thread to give you an idea: Clients say the most hellish things The actual forum itself isn't that great; you might find some good information scattered about.
 
I just found thse in my bookmarks. They're are quite close to the bone. Funny too:
Designer vs Client video
Graphic Designer vs client The sequel
A Website Designer Meets Clueless Client
Web Designer Vs Cheap Client
Web designer vs. Cheap client 2

When you develop the skills to make websites, the first totally obvious thing to do is to make websites for other people. Don't get stuck in that rut though - it can be more lucrative in the long run to make websites for yourself if you can develop the business models to go with them (which is obviously the tricky part).

lol... almost sounds like I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 
Chianti said:
Talk to some designers - you've never met such a bunch of miserable bastards in your life, seemingly imprisoned between being skilful and innovative and yet having to satisfy pond-scum clients who don't know their arse from their elbow, and somehow figure that as soon as they give you a couple of dollars that they own you until you produce the next facebook or youtube for them.
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this is a fucking perfect description of designers lol.

there's a lot of good stuff on this page: Cigar & Tobacco Website Templates

Template 25738 - Cigar Store ZenCart Template
Template 24096 - Cigar Store ZenCart Template
Template 21821 - Cigar Store Magento Theme
 
haha now you've scared the shit out of me with all the demonizing of clients ah!
How do I deal with that? All I can think to do is to get everything written in details, and get that signed off so that if something goes wrong they are still legally obligated to pay a muthafucka before I redo something big.

Though that sounds like a challenge in and of its self. I need time and convincing leverage. what you guys think would be the best approach for me?
 
adiakritos said:
haha now you've scared the shit out of me with all the demonizing of clients ah!
How do I deal with that? All I can think to do is to get everything written in details, and get that signed off so that if something goes wrong they are still legally obligated to pay a muthafucka before I redo something big.

Though that sounds like a challenge in and of its self. I need time and convincing leverage. what you guys think would be the best approach for me?
Click to expand...

break things down into stages and get sign off on each step.

submit a proposal - signoff
provide home page wireframe - signoff
sub page wireframe - signoff
home page mockups - signoff
revisions - signoff
sub page mockup - signoff
revisions - signoff

Make them commit to moving forward because then they can't say "I wasn't ready to move to the next step"
 
adiakritos said:
when do I discuss a price? How do you go about getting paid and their commitment?
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your proposal should include the price, based on their requests and your estimates. It's a chicken and egg situation, you have to pull it out of thin air most of the time. for payment, never ever do a project without a down payment.

For smaller projects, 50% upfront, 50% upon delivery is normal. Big projects, 33% up front, 33% half way, 33% upon delivery
 
perfect.
I got of the phone with a new client a little while ago and yea, he explained what he wanted to me and then asked me the price. Were' gonna go half now and half when I'm done. Pretty simple.
 
There is so much to learn. so many services I want to offer. In order for me to learn only what I need to know now I'm breaking it all down into simple "how do I" questions that should get me from step to step.

There are sales, marketing, design, programming, management shit I want to learn in time to make this really work out for me. I can't learn it all at once and I know its best to focus on one thing at a time and use human resources to free my time and perfect my shit.

I'm trying to plan my personal site to promote my services (lol) and I've got 1 million and 1 things going through my head. All the sales, marketing, goals...etc all mixed up.
I just noticed how result oriented it is and how clear it makes my life. (Note to self.. stay result oriented!)

So I broke it down like this:
My marketing strategy Q's look like this:

1 Who is my target?
2 How can I find them?
3 How can I bring them to my site?
4 How can I persuade them to opt in?
and then
5 How can I attain the deposit?
6 How can I please the client 110%?
 
yes I've heard of mind mapping. Studies show its not the greatest thing in the world but if it works for you, great! =)

I learned about it by reading some books on improving long term memory.

Thanks though
 
> Studies show its not the greatest thing in the world
> I learned about it by reading some books on improving long term memory

I don't know anything about memory; sure we're talking about the same thing?

For me it's just a good way of building radial, visual 'lists' of inter-related ideas, and for brainstorming, and for creating project outlines. In the program I use, the nodes can be linked to files or urls, and can have notes attached. It's a pretty good way to get organised; just an extension of task lists really.
 
Both of my jobs are postboned now. Damn it!
I'm learning how to appreciate these jobs when I get em!
I gotta learn my ABC's! Always Be Closing!
 
the cigar guy might even call the deal off cause he said that he's talking to some other owners of his business and they want an e-commerce site, or something beyond my expertise at this point soo idk what he'll do. the decision for them is still unfinal

and the other guy with the translation site said that he's to broke to pay my half now so I have to wait till he gets his check
 
Finally finished the Fraternity site I thought I'd never get to finish! WO! it looks tight, unfortunately I was not the designer behind it, only the coder... I can do it tho.. with time and patients I can do it better.
 
I'm trying to use a photo gallery called FlexGalleryPro which is a free cms for picture albums.
I've done all the instructions, looked over it many time. Redid it some more times and I'm running into the same challenge. The login in does nothing after putting the info in, and the index.html does nothing.
 
I'm now saying FUCK IT to this "do it yourself" mentality. Since taking this project management class I've realized that its much more efficient for a leader to be leading and managing than to be doing the dirty work AND leading and managing. Screw that. I'd rather focus on marketing strategies to generate a large client base to contact and have other people do the designing and programming.

However I fear that my workers would conspire to steal the client from under me by contacting the client and doing the job for a 50-50 split instead of 3 ways.

Any ideas on how to manage this kind of thing?
 
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