I don't see what the problem is. Christians have their huge billboards, atheists have their bus posters. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander too.
"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
- Thread starter LazyHippy
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eh its all labels.
I was a christian till about a year ago. I never had any problems believing it and never really questioned it. I also didn't have crazys trying to tell me that evolution conflicted with the bible and that everything magicaly poofed up in a few days and the earth is 6k years old. (I always knew genisis but didnt take it literaly never really tought about it as a true story)
When that happened i got some serious doubt about the intelligence of those preaching it and started researching the rest of the storry which pretty much led me straight to atheism.
I was a christian till about a year ago. I never had any problems believing it and never really questioned it. I also didn't have crazys trying to tell me that evolution conflicted with the bible and that everything magicaly poofed up in a few days and the earth is 6k years old. (I always knew genisis but didnt take it literaly never really tought about it as a true story)
When that happened i got some serious doubt about the intelligence of those preaching it and started researching the rest of the storry which pretty much led me straight to atheism.
It really shouldn't come down to whether or not there is a God, it should be whether or not you are okay with rotting in hell while Richard Simmons (yes, he is satan) fucks your mouth.
Hey, that would make a cool poster.
Hey, that would make a cool poster.
That's a really funny statement. I thought it was the Christians that cared so much whatever one else believe. It's your duty to see that everyone is saved right?
I think in this case (the campaigns on the bus and so forth) it's just a strive for that balance you mentioned. You see christian campaigns EVERYWHERE when was the last time you saw an atheist one? As Lazyhippy said, it's just the desire to get people to think. You would be surprised how many people in their own religions, don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amateursurgeon
Militant atheism and militant religious belief are two sides of the same coin.
No, they are not.
Of course they are
militant religious belief- flying planes into buildings
militant atheism - putting up posters in a bus
How can you fail to see the similarities?
When my husband was a teenager, he met with his preacher and started asking questions. Stuff like: "There are so many religions, how do we know that ours is right and theirs are wrong" after a bunch of these types of questions the preacher said, you have to be wary of books and religions that say anything else other than the bible teaches you, you will be lead astray." Essentially he was warning my husband not to think! Because then he knew he would lose him. What does that say about your system of beliefs that they are so fallible that a few deep thinking sessions and it all falls apart?
What is funny, all religions center around the same core principals (some may be a little skewed) and generally the same stories and locations. So, you have to wonder if all of them are really the same God, with just different people vying for your monetary donations.
Exactly.
The posters btw say "there's probably no god".
Well I can't think of anything more open minded than this, the possibility is left open, we just would like some proof please.
Atheists are open minded, we just aren't so open minded that our brains fall out.
breakin some personal rules here.
this always ends up a useless, unproductive exercise.
don't talk politics. people don't change.
don't talk religion. people don't change.
but seriously. can't takes no more.
if you'd like the condensed version, this is it:
:female::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: :anon.sml:
:female::bowdown::bowdown::ak: ................... :1zhelp::girl:
:female::bowdown::bowdown::2gunsfiring_v1:............ :love-smiley-086: :love-smiley-013::love-smiley-083:
:error: :angrysoapbox_sml:
if you're willing to take an objective, rational look at an argument, this is it:
distorted sentence, i'll try to clarify -- you meant 'more people died in wars this past century due to ideology than religion'. yeah?
first, that's a bullshit move.
'war' has nothing to do with it.
just because the vatican hasn't declared all out war doesn't mean thousands of people in ireland haven't died due to religious infighting.
just because religious institutions haven't petitioned some congress to approve a war that stones women to death for being unpure, doesn't mean they aren't murdered every single day because they have a natural, instinctual drive to propagate the species.
there's no war that has decreed homosexuals must be lynched, hung, shot, and/or genitally mutilated because the bible says it's wrong, that's for sure.
but all of these things, and horrendously more, do happen.
just because someone hasn't put a pen to paper doesn't mean there hasn't been a constant war on the human race for millenia.
second:
religion is ideology.
most religion follows the idea that there's an all powerful, all knowing, sometimes benevolent sometimes genocidal dictator in the sky that has created all and controls all -- removing personal responsibility from the individual.
this is the prime reason iranian extremists, rapture-ready zealots, and other armageddon ushers feel the way they do.
the idea says when this world passes, a better one will come.
but do you know what's beyond?
do you know?
no.
nobody does.
we all have theories. we all have beliefs.
but nobody has come back to tell you personally one way or another.
and it's irresponsible in the extreme to blindly believe a book that has been revised hundreds of times in the past 2000 years, or one that fell from the sky, or any other book that relies on human beings to reproduce and/or produce in the first place.
a book that, with objective eyes, is nothing more than an early attempt to explain the world around us.
a book of rudimentary ideas that proposed theories on how nature worked.
how a society should work.
how people should act.
how people should live.
and what people should think.
religion is essentially based on crude science books written thousands of years ago.
through force and and incredible loss of human life, these books -- these ideas -- became required reading for different cultures.
and these ideas from these books have been the prime cause for sanctioned, justified killing in the name of an idea -- war.
not just in the past century, but since their inception.
now, honestly: would you approve of the mandatory inclusion of 1700s-era ethics books in the classroom, that condone slavery?
would you approve of our children being taught that the earth is flat, or that Sun and Moon gods chase each other around the earth?
would you accept it if these outdated ideas were force fed into society, and if you didn't acknowledge their absolute truth you would be put to death?
would you?
this is how many major religions were introduced to the world.
this is how many religious groups demand their ideas be accepted by the world today.
when the world rejects these demands, some religious groups resort to extremism.
that's the problem.
the conflict created by different beliefs is tearing the world apart.
if people could believe what they wish in peace, it would be dandy.
but as long as there is any form of religion that demands to be spread because it is 'mandated by god' or the 'righteous' path or the 'true way to salvation' -- there will always be conflict. as long as the individual is made to feel weak, powerless, and not responsible for their actions and consequences because a god is in control of everything, there will be conflict. as long as religions continue participating in a pissing contest of who can control more people, there will be conflict.
and with the state of technology today, this conflict can easily turn into a worldwide catastrophe.
maybe. maybe not.
if something is broken, would you really choose not to fix it because it might break again?
manipulative bastards will always exist, sure.
but the supply of stupid can easily be made scarce.
you're a marketer, right?
would you buy that awesome free acai trial that's so damn popular now?
probably not.
why not?
because you're educated. because you can see beyond the smoke and mirrors.
you're aware of the persuasive marketing tricks that tend to hide the evil rebill and flaunt the idea of losing weight fast.
you can see the offer for what it really is.
most can't.
education is key.
seeing the world as it is helps nothing. seeing what it could be, changes everything.
no.
they're trying to convince that crazy church/family who praises god for dead soldiers.
they're trying to convince suicide bombers who believe that their death and the death of those around them will not result in 72 virgins given to you in the afterlife. or at least that 72 virgins isn't worth dying for -- wouldn't you rather have 72 women who know how to please you?
they're trying to convince people who truly believe the only way to make the world into a heaven on earth is to flush it all away, based on the two thousand year old idea that says god will make it happen like that.
they're trying to convince you.
because even if you're an awesome example of a compassionate and loving human being -- your personal emotional solace created by faith in an idea isn't worth the deaths of millions, if not billions, due to religious extremism.
not by a damn sight.
touching on a related, but completely different can of worms there.
it's just so damn bad to be wrong, isn't it?
atheists and theists, both 100% convinced that they are in the right and the others are damn idiots for thinking otherwise. god forbid either side being wrong. that would just be the worst -- would suck to realize that you've been fooled one way or another your entire life.
me? i love to be proven wrong.
it's along the lines of failure -- without it, there is no opportunity for growth.
but for some damn reason people get all butthurt when someone even suggests there's the slightest possibility that they're wrong.
really, i would love to see irrefutable proof that god exists.
i'd have a long chat with the guy.
i'd smoke a fattie with him.
i might even punch him in the nose.
but as it is, rational logical scientific proof doesn't -- and can't -- point to an absolute yes or no on the god question.
what it can establish is that almost all religions have roughly the same backstory that can be traced to egyptian mythology. that alone puts the idea into bullshit territory, but i'm spending way too much time talking to different colored brick walls who aren't wrong so i'm gonna cut it short here.
so. in conclusion:
what would jesus do?
what would allah do?
who does do?
this always ends up a useless, unproductive exercise.
don't talk politics. people don't change.
don't talk religion. people don't change.
but seriously. can't takes no more.
if you'd like the condensed version, this is it:
:female::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: :anon.sml:
:female::bowdown::bowdown::ak: ................... :1zhelp::girl:
:female::bowdown::bowdown::2gunsfiring_v1:............ :love-smiley-086: :love-smiley-013::love-smiley-083:
:error: :angrysoapbox_sml:if you're willing to take an objective, rational look at an argument, this is it:
distorted sentence, i'll try to clarify -- you meant 'more people died in wars this past century due to ideology than religion'. yeah?
first, that's a bullshit move.
'war' has nothing to do with it.
just because the vatican hasn't declared all out war doesn't mean thousands of people in ireland haven't died due to religious infighting.
just because religious institutions haven't petitioned some congress to approve a war that stones women to death for being unpure, doesn't mean they aren't murdered every single day because they have a natural, instinctual drive to propagate the species.
there's no war that has decreed homosexuals must be lynched, hung, shot, and/or genitally mutilated because the bible says it's wrong, that's for sure.
but all of these things, and horrendously more, do happen.
just because someone hasn't put a pen to paper doesn't mean there hasn't been a constant war on the human race for millenia.
second:
religion is ideology.
most religion follows the idea that there's an all powerful, all knowing, sometimes benevolent sometimes genocidal dictator in the sky that has created all and controls all -- removing personal responsibility from the individual.
this is the prime reason iranian extremists, rapture-ready zealots, and other armageddon ushers feel the way they do.
the idea says when this world passes, a better one will come.
but do you know what's beyond?
do you know?
no.
nobody does.
we all have theories. we all have beliefs.
but nobody has come back to tell you personally one way or another.
and it's irresponsible in the extreme to blindly believe a book that has been revised hundreds of times in the past 2000 years, or one that fell from the sky, or any other book that relies on human beings to reproduce and/or produce in the first place.
a book that, with objective eyes, is nothing more than an early attempt to explain the world around us.
a book of rudimentary ideas that proposed theories on how nature worked.
how a society should work.
how people should act.
how people should live.
and what people should think.
religion is essentially based on crude science books written thousands of years ago.
through force and and incredible loss of human life, these books -- these ideas -- became required reading for different cultures.
and these ideas from these books have been the prime cause for sanctioned, justified killing in the name of an idea -- war.
not just in the past century, but since their inception.
now, honestly: would you approve of the mandatory inclusion of 1700s-era ethics books in the classroom, that condone slavery?
would you approve of our children being taught that the earth is flat, or that Sun and Moon gods chase each other around the earth?
would you accept it if these outdated ideas were force fed into society, and if you didn't acknowledge their absolute truth you would be put to death?
would you?
this is how many major religions were introduced to the world.
this is how many religious groups demand their ideas be accepted by the world today.
when the world rejects these demands, some religious groups resort to extremism.
that's the problem.
the conflict created by different beliefs is tearing the world apart.
if people could believe what they wish in peace, it would be dandy.
but as long as there is any form of religion that demands to be spread because it is 'mandated by god' or the 'righteous' path or the 'true way to salvation' -- there will always be conflict. as long as the individual is made to feel weak, powerless, and not responsible for their actions and consequences because a god is in control of everything, there will be conflict. as long as religions continue participating in a pissing contest of who can control more people, there will be conflict.
and with the state of technology today, this conflict can easily turn into a worldwide catastrophe.
maybe. maybe not.
if something is broken, would you really choose not to fix it because it might break again?
manipulative bastards will always exist, sure.
but the supply of stupid can easily be made scarce.
you're a marketer, right?
would you buy that awesome free acai trial that's so damn popular now?
probably not.
why not?
because you're educated. because you can see beyond the smoke and mirrors.
you're aware of the persuasive marketing tricks that tend to hide the evil rebill and flaunt the idea of losing weight fast.
you can see the offer for what it really is.
most can't.
education is key.
seeing the world as it is helps nothing. seeing what it could be, changes everything.
no.
they're trying to convince that crazy church/family who praises god for dead soldiers.
they're trying to convince suicide bombers who believe that their death and the death of those around them will not result in 72 virgins given to you in the afterlife. or at least that 72 virgins isn't worth dying for -- wouldn't you rather have 72 women who know how to please you?
they're trying to convince people who truly believe the only way to make the world into a heaven on earth is to flush it all away, based on the two thousand year old idea that says god will make it happen like that.
they're trying to convince you.
because even if you're an awesome example of a compassionate and loving human being -- your personal emotional solace created by faith in an idea isn't worth the deaths of millions, if not billions, due to religious extremism.
not by a damn sight.
touching on a related, but completely different can of worms there.
it's just so damn bad to be wrong, isn't it?
atheists and theists, both 100% convinced that they are in the right and the others are damn idiots for thinking otherwise. god forbid either side being wrong. that would just be the worst -- would suck to realize that you've been fooled one way or another your entire life.
me? i love to be proven wrong.
it's along the lines of failure -- without it, there is no opportunity for growth.
but for some damn reason people get all butthurt when someone even suggests there's the slightest possibility that they're wrong.
really, i would love to see irrefutable proof that god exists.
i'd have a long chat with the guy.
i'd smoke a fattie with him.
i might even punch him in the nose.
but as it is, rational logical scientific proof doesn't -- and can't -- point to an absolute yes or no on the god question.
what it can establish is that almost all religions have roughly the same backstory that can be traced to egyptian mythology. that alone puts the idea into bullshit territory, but i'm spending way too much time talking to different colored brick walls who aren't wrong so i'm gonna cut it short here.
so. in conclusion:
what would jesus do?
what would allah do?
who does do?
500 years? Hm. It really depends. If humans can avoid war and find a good solution to all the current problems, then most likely under 10%. 500 years is a long time though.. 200 years ago almost everyone had a religion. Now it's down to 80% and the only group gaining ground is atheism.
Well Lazy Hippy, that sign on the bus is one opinion. I don't know how things are across the pond there, but here in the States, that same opinion is broadcast by the Media pretty much 24/7. You can always tune into a religious channel if you like, but the mainstream media presents things as if there is no God.
Nevele, there are classical arguments for God's existence - but the secular schools no longer teach these things it would seem. Go here for more exploration: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Existence of God
I don't know how things are across the pond there, but here in the States, that same opinion is broadcast by the Media pretty much 24/7. You can always tune into a religious channel if you like, but the mainstream media presents things as if there is no God. Nevele, there are classical arguments for God's existence - but the secular schools no longer teach these things it would seem. Go here for more exploration: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Existence of God
HarveyJ
He is - THE CACTUS!
People, the only TRUE religion is Land Over Baptism...
Because god wants me to hate you...
Because god wants me to hate you...
Actually, I made decent bank selling their crap last Xmas. Give it a go
I'm willing to bet that atheists are just louder than the religious people. Go look on digg for examples.
What perplexes me is that this generation is so much against Christians, yet Muslims are the ones stoning, cutting heads off and blowing them selves up in the name of their god.
If you are a true atheist then It would seem to me that Islam would be your first target to discredit?
Oh yea..... speaking out against Christians is safer than denouncing Islam
Cowards!
If you are a true atheist then It would seem to me that Islam would be your first target to discredit?
Oh yea..... speaking out against Christians is safer than denouncing Islam
Cowards!
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