State of affiliate marketing, GURUS, and other things...

[King.]

Interesting replies.

If this was 5 years ago I'm pretty sure 90% of you would be laughing at the idea of someone becoming a guru, But things change.

I can appreciate the hustle, even if the hustle has become peddling information to newbies.

The one thing that does surprise me is the amount of old school people who now support that decision. Things might be a lot tougher now than I ever imagined.

I remember the intense guru bashing all too well - anyone who dared to charge for info whether it was an ebook or seminar or access to a private forum was shat all over publically.

Let this be a lesson that at the end of the day, when money is involved everyone is a hypocrite and full of shit.

 

[JohnnyThai]

all depends on the app. i don't think ASO is that important as long as you make apps people want and are already searching for. there's loads of people now searching for apps that don't exist, if someone codes it, it's easy downloads. of course some apps there's already competition and play store ranking is all about downloads and rating. i buy some fake downloads to get the ball rolling (you need at least 100-200 to be anywhere in results), then ask users in the app to rate the app for some free feature. i sometimes change colors, graphics and name in an app and duplicate upload a few times so i've 4 or 5 apps across dev accounts dominating search results. this is more of the AM hustle that I rarely see other devs do. (apart from the reskinners of course, but they're nearly all games)

note that i'm talking about apps that provide a function that people are actively looking for, not games where people don't know what they want. 2 completely different markets. i will prob never do games.

i've gotten a few PMs with people asking me where to learn how to code and i've no real answers for you, you know yourselves, there's loads of places on Google. if you never did PHP/Python back in AM days you might struggle alright. my post was mainly aimed at people who have done a bit of web coding already

I already signed up for a course in Swift 2 online, and I'm also considering doing one locally (there's a place that teaches coding apps just down the road). The only problem is that it's for teens and I'm 28.

Going to ask the guy if I can hire him to teach me one on one.

 

[Sonny Forelli]

I haven't dropped a post in a long time that I actually took effort to write - so here goes.

Before most of you had heard of Acai I had a family member who happens to be Chinese who, via their Chinese network <who love business opportunities> had sold them on the dream of making millions via this juice in wine bottles.

Naturally coming from this industry I was intrigued at what this stuff was and what Monavie was doing to make such a rapid run w/ their super fruit juice. I look a look at this and beat most of you to market in this space poaching off already established traffic via search queries and word of mouth that Monavie and their army of reps was rapidly building. Margins were insane. But let's look at the WHY.

1) Unnatural focus/buzz/press (oh hai Ms. O!, Thx Monavie reps!) around this product. Every once in awhile something 'new' hits with a ton of buzz - there's limited time to HIGHLY leverage this. Currently btw it's green energy (no not just solar).

2) Come to find out the value exchanged to the user was... imbalanced. Want a flash in the pan high ROI business? Leave one party completely out of the value exchange.

3) In those days tracking (thank you Wes/Nana) was expensive to obtain <build in house> and many including many of us didn't have anything worthwhile. This lead to those with the ability to build the product based businesses, from a cash/logistics/operational standpoint with a big breakage point were they actually going to try and run their own high volume marketing campaigns in-house.

This is a near perfect storm, and it's not unique to berries in our space at all.

I talk, way too often, about exploiting inefficiencies - looking at established spaces that do things in dumb ways but it doesn't matter because there is still room for good margins AND there is value exchanged throughout the equation is a dream situation.

I believe that many who have 'left' realized this, myself included.

The landscape changed and so did the mindset. The old adage 'behind every great fortune is a great crime' rang true (as it always does and always will in life) and those who had cashed up realized they could now afford to invest in tech, product, staff, competitive differences and tackle new markets - many of those inefficient.

This doesn't mean that running traffic to offers you don't own isn't a way to make a living - but I believe what's changed is blindly asking reps "Hey what's a good offer to run!?" isn't the way to do this. Many I know still running traffic will FIRST identify a market, an inefficiency or an inferior product where they strongly believe they could compete. Then the question becomes "do I want a home for these clicks/leads/sales that I could in theory generate or do I build everything myself? OR do I approach the main manufacturer - tell them I'm going to come and before re-creating the wheel see if they'll white label the widget for me so that even though now there is a new 'product' on the market the supplier is just increasing their sales volume.

You know the difference between this mindset and the affiliate mindset of yesteryear? This is more in-line with building BUSINESSES and BUSINESS relationships. These people are now networking with CEO's of tech startups, VC's, politicians and looking at true emerging tech as opposed to emerging PRODUCTS (where prosper/bevo/etc are PRODUCTS). They can do this because they're building teams, they're paying salaries <even if it's upwork folks - but fuck this "Oh - well maybe I can pay $100 and get $50k worth of value?" shit. The world has corrected - I have people on the other side of the world I pay $30/hour - they're not dumb either they just happen to have been born in other nations (you da real mvp mom & dad!)>.

The other big thing is to not think that you can wait around for something that will ultimately provide almost no user value to magically re-appear. Do you know how much easier it is to figure out how to tweak inefficient businesses and still have pleased users? Ever wonder how a USER feels about a viral arb site? Run one - <no really don't - you're late to this train for sure> - but i'll save you the effort - users' LIKE them. The ad arb business on the back end is way over their heads - but wait, what do various celebs have as pets!? OMG! clickclickclickclickclick


Smart advertisers also do not plunk offers into a bunch of networks and wait and see what happens. We have offers where overall experience is THE MOST important thing to us. Does that mean that we cut corners and double the business every month? No - it means the opposite, so giving something we're investing so heavily in to a dumb AM and letting them give it to people asking "hey Bro- what do I run!?" with the thought that they can run some SUPER sketchy ads and return 300% ROI is quite literally the last fucking thing I want to have anything to do with and I've made it quite clear that were something like this to happen I'd sue the shit out of everyone involved. This limits your growth to like-MINDED people and companies. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it means you have to work harder and produce an even better product that converts higher since corners won't be cut.


But do we run everything in-house? Absolutely fucking not. Many lurkers here have forgotten more about various traffic sources and intricate campaign setups than I EVER knew. I'd be an idiot not to work very closely with them and let them do what they do best while we do what we do best. But if you're sitting on offervault or odigger looking for new hot offers you aren't even seeing things like this going on behind the scenes.

This gives the appearance that things are dead. Moving to GURU mode is either a) the next pivot for those who cashed up quick but now realize they can bilk folks including the very lucrative market of Chinese with WAY too much fast money they don't know what to do with by selling courses (or houses in America - look into this people are going massive seminars at 5 star hotels where basically everyone comes in and finds a house to buy - this is totally fubaring the norm for home sales in the Bay Area as this makes it super easy to choose one cheap $3M place and then head to Cathay and send the wire - with these companies handling it all with ease. Think about HOW MUCH FUCKING MONEY THEY ARE PROBABLY MAKING SIMPLY BY CHARGING A 15-20% PREMIUM AND COLLUDING WITH THE SELLING REALTORS ON THIS. How does the user/customer feel? They're stoked - easy home buying and offshore money parking.


GET.THIS.MENTALITY.INTO.YOUR.HEAD.


The other folks moving to GURU status are those who couldn't adapt. This isn't new or unique to this industry. In others these people become university professors, politicians, lobbyists or other self-important B/C tier morons that can afford a 911 but not a Lambo. This is life.


Adapt, or die.

 

[bluechinagroup]

all depends on the app. i don't think ASO is that important as long as you make apps people want and are already searching for. there's loads of people now searching for apps that don't exist, if someone codes it, it's easy downloads. of course some apps there's already competition and play store ranking is all about downloads and rating. i buy some fake downloads to get the ball rolling (you need at least 100-200 to be anywhere in results), then ask users in the app to rate the app for some free feature. i sometimes change colors, graphics and name in an app and duplicate upload a few times so i've 4 or 5 apps across dev accounts dominating search results. this is more of the AM hustle that I rarely see other devs do. (apart from the reskinners of course, but they're nearly all games)

note that i'm talking about apps that provide a function that people are actively looking for, not games where people don't know what they want. 2 completely different markets. i will prob never do games.

i've gotten a few PMs with people asking me where to learn how to code and i've no real answers for you, you know yourselves, there's loads of places on Google. if you never did PHP/Python back in AM days you might struggle alright. my post was mainly aimed at people who have done a bit of web coding already

Is there any kind of tool out there that can help you find what people are searching for?

Also you might disagree, but I think it's definitely possible to hire coders to develop your app if you don't want to code yourself. But I do think it's important to do proper vetting, be a competent project manager, and have some coding background though. I've been working with programmers as a project manager for developing windows apps and server side software for 15 years now. I haven't tried mobile, but I can't imagine that it's any different if you hire a competent and trustworthy developers.

These days I also do C# coding on the side, but it's for a pet project with Unity and not for anything serious. For stuff that is intended for commercial release, I put together a development team. I don't like one man bands.

 

[super]

Thanks for this, as app development is something I've been thinking about getting into for a while now.

I always thought it must be a gold mine considering how huge the industry has become - I mean it's just so obvious; everywhere you look people are staring at their smart phones, but due to the fact that I don't know how to code, I never really knew how or where to start.

Do you have any recommendations of where to begin? I know that you mentioned that you could already code websites.

Not sure why did he say it was mandatory to code it yourself.
You can hire someone just as well. If you start with simple one you can only get away spending few hundred bucks. If you are up for this - hit me up and I will give you a quote.

 

[JohnnyThai]

Not sure why did he say it was mandatory to code it yourself.
You can hire someone just as well. If you start with simple one you can only get away spending few hundred bucks. If you are up for this - hit me up and I will give you a quote.

I never said it was "mandatory".

It's just common sense that someone who knows very little about coding and marketing apps would learn a bit about the industry beforehand.

If any ideas come to mind I'll hit you up.

 

[Grindstone]

Let's rephrase the question. What value add do you provide that would make a coder want to give you a portion of the revenue he'd be generating?

Ideas that actually make money.

Most good programmers are shit ass marketers. No offense intended, just the truth.

Just like most really good black hat SEOs are shit ass at converting traffic when compared to someone who pays for every click.

Left brain right brain stuff. There's some with the right mix who absolutely destroy it. They know who they are and won't be offended by this post. The rest suck cock by choice.

 

[mattseh]

Ideas that actually make money.
...
The rest suck cock by choice.

 

[I Am Attila]

The top affiliate marketers are the ones who could identify a broad interest group and give them exactly what they want (it doesn't matter if its true or not)

Charles Ngo is a great affiliate marketer that realized there's too many people that wan't to quit their job and make money online and be free. So at the time (i think 2013) he stopped posting here, and made himself 'less available' is the day he started his funnel to build out a massive newbie following where the money is.

Less available creates mystery, and sends this 'i am just too busy making a gazillion dollars to talk to you' and newbies eat that shit up like no tomorrow.

He used inspiring stories, quotes and other shit that puts fire in the pants of this broad demographic he targeted, every single post on his blog was a well thought out addition to his funnel. It's an extremely well executed 2+ year old series of blog posts, and then free seminars to warm up his audience to make them trust him and buy everything he says.

Then came the ball drop, that he's going to coach for 10k per student. And many ordered, even people who claim they make 10k a day on Facebook running nutra, but in reality they don't make shit just flaunt it till you make it. (strangely enough I know one dude who took charles's course and became a guru, but in dec 2014 he was bitching how he has trouble keeping accounts up on FB and don't know what he'll do LOL)

Charles also identified that this buzz everywhere around MOBILE is the HOOK that can get him into the minds of most newbies. They are hearing mobile is set to double next year, then the year after, more and more smart phones blah blah blah. Again Charles is giving people what they want to hear (it doesn't matter what he REALLY runs) he's teaching them the shit they wanna hear.

I have nothing but respect for NGO for executing the most well thought out funnel and having it work out for him. That's huge. He's banking hard while people are bitching that he became a guru. He put in the work, and he deserves all the benefits.

It's not easy to talk on stage, come up with content all the time, and repeat the same shit over and over to different people in different countries.

 

[fatmoocow]

1. A newsletter that you opted into converts better than random bullshit banner ads.
2. A product created by someone you know and trust converts better than random bullshit ads.
3. A product that takes into consideration your feedback and ideas because you can communicate with the creator, converts better than random bullshit products made for broad markets.
4. When you capture leads and sell those leads new products over and over again you make more than if you sell a one time product sale from a random bullshit ad.
5. When you provide free content over a period of time, people trust you more than if you are hitting a one time lander.
6. Higher priced products require higher levels of trust than random bullshit ads can provide.


Do you want to make a one time sale for $10-$100 with low conversion rates or would you rather sell a $100 product, then a $500 product, then a $150 subscription, then a $2,000 seminar, then a $5,000 a month mastermind group all to the same person with higher conversions than the one time sale?

I've seen retards make six figures a year selling their own products because they built a following over a long period of time. They aren't dependent on search traffic or algorithm changes. They don't even know how to buy ads. They just generate content for years and sell products.

Following this model still allows you to sell affiliate products and use affiliates, but as a guru providing a recommendation, not someone selling ad space for garbage.

 

[super]

I never said it was "mandatory".

It's just common sense that someone who knows very little about coding and marketing apps would learn a bit about the industry beforehand.

If any ideas come to mind I'll hit you up.

I was talking not about you, but about this guy:

key takeaways for AMers wanting to get into apps
1) don't be original. it's too risky. copy others from the top grossing lists. remember mgrunin's theft app? i knew straightoff it would go nowhere. it's too original
2) best coders don't make the most money. they have retarded ideas and no hustle. example above is not making new Android dev accounts
3) yes you need to code. it's never too late to learn. some apps are a lot easier than others, stick to the easy ones first. i love coding so I've an advantage there

Cheers

 

[bodiddley]

Moving to GURU mode is either a) the next pivot for those who cashed up quick but now realize they can bilk folks including the very lucrative market of Chinese with WAY too much fast money they don't know what to do with by selling courses (or houses in America - look into this people are going massive seminars at 5 star hotels where basically everyone comes in and finds a house to buy - this is totally fubaring the norm for home sales in the Bay Area as this makes it super easy to choose one cheap $3M place and then head to Cathay and send the wire - with these companies handling it all with ease. Think about HOW MUCH FUCKING MONEY THEY ARE PROBABLY MAKING SIMPLY BY CHARGING A 15-20% PREMIUM AND COLLUDING WITH THE SELLING REALTORS ON THIS. How does the user/customer feel? They're stoked - easy home buying and offshore money parking.


GET.THIS.MENTALITY.INTO.YOUR.HEAD.


The other folks moving to GURU status are those who couldn't adapt. This isn't new or unique to this industry. In others these people become university professors, politicians, lobbyists or other self-important B/C tier morons that can afford a 911 but not a Lambo. This is life.


Adapt, or die.

Don't contribute to the decline of the middle class of the formerly great USA. Fuck Chinese real estate investors, and fuck them up the ass. Otherwise, an obviously excellent post.

 

[netbert]

The top affiliate marketers are the ones who could identify a broad interest group and give them exactly what they want (it doesn't matter if its true or not)

Charles Ngo is a great affiliate marketer that realized there's too many people that wan't to quit their job and make money online and be free. So at the time (i think 2013) he stopped posting here, and made himself 'less available' is the day he started his funnel to build out a massive newbie following where the money is.

Less available creates mystery, and sends this 'i am just too busy making a gazillion dollars to talk to you' and newbies eat that shit up like no tomorrow.

He used inspiring stories, quotes and other shit that puts fire in the pants of this broad demographic he targeted, every single post on his blog was a well thought out addition to his funnel. It's an extremely well executed 2+ year old series of blog posts, and then free seminars to warm up his audience to make them trust him and buy everything he says.

Then came the ball drop, that he's going to coach for 10k per student. And many ordered, even people who claim they make 10k a day on Facebook running nutra, but in reality they don't make shit just flaunt it till you make it. (strangely enough I know one dude who took charles's course and became a guru, but in dec 2014 he was bitching how he has trouble keeping accounts up on FB and don't know what he'll do LOL)

Charles also identified that this buzz everywhere around MOBILE is the HOOK that can get him into the minds of most newbies. They are hearing mobile is set to double next year, then the year after, more and more smart phones blah blah blah. Again Charles is giving people what they want to hear (it doesn't matter what he REALLY runs) he's teaching them the shit they wanna hear.

I have nothing but respect for NGO for executing the most well thought out funnel and having it work out for him. That's huge. He's banking hard while people are bitching that he became a guru. He put in the work, and he deserves all the benefits.

It's not easy to talk on stage, come up with content all the time, and repeat the same shit over and over to different people in different countries.

Nice try, Charles, but make it a little less obvious next time.

 

[dynamicsoul]

Nice try, Charles, but make it a little less obvious next time.

that isn't charles, it's attila.

iAmAttila | Making Money Online Through Affiliate Marketing

 

[netbert]

that isn't charles, it's attila.

iAmAttila | Making Money Online Through Affiliate Marketing

Heh okay, it was quite a glowing 1-poster comment.

 

[mattseh]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[Wicked Ice]

I think all of them sold out. No one is going to reveal their secrets to make money unless they are plain stupid. Who wants to create more competition for themselves? Only in AM where the gurus are not making money anymore. And now trying to milk the newbies. It's like MLM.

 

[jsphfcll]

lol 76k in rev... that speaks nothing to net profit

 

[Wicked Ice]

 

[Vadym]

I like to think of this as a reset. When I started in 2008 - milking MMO newbies was the big surface thing. 8 years later, milking MMO newbies is the big surface thing.

It's comforting, industry don't change - it just updates. You may need to make scripts for 1-click checkouts and apply to interests of 2015 - but it's not like less people are spending monies on the internet every year.