One of the biggest Ponzi Schemes in U.S History & MLM Talk

lukep said:
Are you really putting Amway and Herbalife in the same category with Ponzi schemes?

Hard to call something a ponzi scheme that has been going on for multiple decades, has storefronts worldwide, and is publically traded.
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They're #68 or so on the list of biggest corporate political contributors, and they settle class-action lawsuits out of court to evade publciity.

They've been around since they do sell retail products rather than investment shares, but they're damn lucky to survive since they consistently mislead the recruits on the average member's earnings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Amway_Corp.
http://pyramidschemealert.org/analy...raud-pays-150-million-wheres-the-ftc-and-doj/

I imagine the storefronts are just for show and for regulatory adherence. Only a fool would buy their crap.
 


Its the worst when your relatives get involved in MLM. I still dont talk to my brother in law because he used have my phone number on his weekly to call list.

I told him to go sell auto insurance or refi peoples homes. I dont understand how they do some much footwork for these MLM companies. When they can just become a state licensed professional of some sort and build a real business.
 
jsphfcll said:
ohh and...

didnt-read-lol.gif
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^this
 
lukep said:
Are you really putting Amway and Herbalife in the same category with Ponzi schemes?

Hard to call something a ponzi scheme that has been going on for multiple decades, has storefronts worldwide, and is publically traded.
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Sounds like a Madoff ... oh wait.
 
Surferjock87 said:
2. Instead of MLM...

- Doing things on the side like Affiliate / Internet Marketing / Lead Generation,
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Netflix > pays affiliate Network B for new customer > pays Network C for new customer > pays gay webmaster for new customer

MLM is an affiliate marketing commission structure with multiple levels of affiliates. That on its own is not necessarily a bad thing. The problems have more to do with the shadiness of various MLM companies and the people who promote them.

As for reward sites - yes, people can earn more with a min wage job, but for many it is just something they do here and there when they have time. There's nothing wrong with spending an hour filling out surveys instead of playing video games.





bodiddley said:
I have no idea how the hell Amway is still in business, but the general rule is - if all the sales are made to the members in the organization and not the general public, it's a Ponzi.
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You're thinking of "pyramid scheme." Legal definitions are different all over, but according to some they "seldom involve sales of real products or services."

Amway and Avon sell real products, for example.

Zeek Rewards wasn't a ponzi scheme because of their affiliate model, but it instead had to do with them promising 1.5% daily returns to anyone who joined. They of course weren't really growing the pool of money at that rate. In order to pay those that wanted to cash out, money had to be taken from new investors.

Ponzis tell people they will make a profit just by joining. Things like Amway instead make it clear that people will only get commissions based on sales to others.
 
bodiddley said:
...the general rule is - if all the sales are made to the members in the organization and not the general public, it's a Ponzi.
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That's not what a ponzi scheme is.

A ponzi scheme is, most simply, where you use newly invested money, or a portion of an investors money, to pay dividends to create the illusion of money being generated.
 
My roommate makes decent money in an energy drink MLM and they lease his BMW. I'm unsure if his results are atypical, but he has quite a few peers come over that have the leased cars too. He's been in almost a year...and he's definitely caught my attention in his efforts.

He let me take a SS of his 4 day earnings:
hngjjZJ.jpg
 
Surferjock87 said:
MonaVie - Overpriced acai berry @ about $45 a bottle.
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I remember when I first realized that I would never have to have another job again. The first time that I realized that my mind had completely shifted away from being an employee.

I was with a my mother in a car, and we saw a MonaVie "hummer". After about 60 seconds mom started talking about whether or not she should sell MonaVie, and that she had friends making good money selling it.

The big moment for me was when I realized that I had instead been thinking the entire time about how could I create something like this, and how I could have these people sell it for me.

After that realization about my mindset change it's never been the same.
 
titanium777 said:
My roommate makes decent money in an energy drink MLM and they lease his BMW. I'm unsure if his results are atypical, but he has quite a few peers come over that have the leased cars too. He's been in almost a year...and he's definitely caught my attention in his efforts.

He let me take a SS of his 4 day earnings:
hngjjZJ.jpg
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Not bad for 4 days. His a rare minority.

I'd like to see how much incomeathome.com makes from herbalife. Probably will put most biz opp slangers to shame.

Still 250 a day isnt much.
 
I'm pretty shocked to hear so many here that sell shit for a living can't even tell the difference between the good shit and the shitty shit.

The distinction that most of you are failing to see is the Quality of the PRODUCT.

If your product is a $45 bottle of fruit juice, then sure, there is something really wrong here, and no one should be involved in this business. (Ironically I have tried some and liked it, but certainly not $45 worth.)

That's a SCHEME, although it's not a ponzi scheme because the newbies aren't paying the income of the grandfathered... Perhaps their product sales are though.

What's not a scheme or a racket in any way is if you make quality products and let other people sell them for you. (Even when they do so with "downlines.")

Amway has been going strong for OVER HALF A FUCKING CENTURY because it's products are valuable. They have offices all over the world, and here in BKK their office is in one of the best megamalls in the country!

Herbalife, too, has excellent products, and I use them myself on a regular basis. My wife has officially been a distributor for Herbalife on two continents and 4 US states now, nonstop for a period of 11 years, just so she could keep buying these products at 25% off.

You should try some of herbalife's stuff... It far surpasses the quality of the shit you'd get at the mall.

So why do these MLM companies have so many lawsuits in the US?

It's really simple... They've been sold by their immediate upline on unrealistic expectations.

One guy who's a good salesman will join, sell the Opp too hard and all of the people he sold get let down and some of these fools invest their life savings in stock they never should have bought... These two companies, at least, specifically tell all newbies that they CANNOT expect riches, just a business, and not to listen to the claims of their recruiter if he promises them more than X$ a month.

The US is the land of the litigious. Of course the lawsuits would pile up when these rules are broken.

It's not the biz model bros, it's the people.
 
lukep said:
I'm pretty shocked to hear so many here that sell shit for a living can't even tell the difference between the good shit and the shitty shit.

The distinction that most of you are failing to see is the Quality of the PRODUCT.

If your product is a $45 bottle of fruit juice, then sure, there is something really wrong here, and no one should be involved in this business. (Ironically I have tried some and liked it, but certainly not $45 worth.)

That's a SCHEME, although it's not a ponzi scheme because the newbies aren't paying the income of the grandfathered... Perhaps their product sales are though.

What's not a scheme or a racket in any way is if you make quality products and let other people sell them for you. (Even when they do so with "downlines.")

Amway has been going strong for OVER HALF A FUCKING CENTURY because it's products are valuable. They have offices all over the world, and here in BKK their office is in one of the best megamalls in the country!

Herbalife, too, has excellent products, and I use them myself on a regular basis. My wife has officially been a distributor for Herbalife on two continents and 4 US states now, nonstop for a period of 11 years, just so she could keep buying these products at 25% off.

You should try some of herbalife's stuff... It far surpasses the quality of the shit you'd get at the mall.

So why do these MLM companies have so many lawsuits in the US?

It's really simple... They've been sold by their immediate upline on unrealistic expectations.

One guy who's a good salesman will join, sell the Opp too hard and all of the people he sold get let down and some of these fools invest their life savings in stock they never should have bought... These two companies, at least, specifically tell all newbies that they CANNOT expect riches, just a business, and not to listen to the claims of their recruiter if he promises them more than X$ a month.

The US is the land of the litigious. Of course the lawsuits would pile up when these rules are broken.

It's not the biz model bros, it's the people.
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In a 2006 court case against Amway, an internal document was exposed which stated that less than 4% of retail sales came from the general public.

Corporate Frauds Watch: March 2012

And if they're not misleading their recruits, why would Amway agree to settle a 150M lawsuit?
 
Do I have something to share? Why yes, yes I do!

I didn't read your entire post, because frankly I think people who buy into MLMs are semi-retarded and should probably be prevented from reproducing.

I wrote MLM software for a while and I'll tell you no one ever made money via the product. The product is just there to make it legal. The real money is in the referrals. If you can't run conf calls and be a hype man that can make flava flav look like an amateur then you won't be any good.

I once had an MLM person tell me "You're not thinking like an MLMer. You're thinking logically!".

I have mlmers and OP you're probably retarded.
 
bodiddley said:
In a 2006 court case against Amway, an internal document was exposed which stated that less than 4% of retail sales came from the general public.

Corporate Frauds Watch: March 2012
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You know, I don't always look for evidence of US Court Cases on Blogspot blogs, but when I do, I look for it on Indian blogspot blogs. :thumbsup:

Lulz... But even if this was precisely true, so what?

As I explained above, my wife and I have an herbalife membership to get their products cheap for ourselves. Would we count as the 4% in that statistic?

I think you're letting your experience with a few bad apple MLMs paint your picture of all MLMs... Some have withstood the test of time, bro.


bodiddley said:
And if they're not misleading their recruits, why would Amway agree to settle a 150M lawsuit?
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Bizness as usual in the land of the lawsuit.
 
lukep said:
My wife has officially been a distributor for Herbalife on two continents and 4 US states now, nonstop for a period of 11 years, just so she could keep buying these products at 25% off.
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So your wife has been a slave for 11 years so that she can get 25% off?
 
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