New World Order

[xmcp123]

Guerilla, your arguments are Utopian and fail to take into account human nature. That was the same mistake made by Marx and his homies and why Communism never worked. It looks great in a textbook, but doesn't work that way in practice.

I'm not in Guerilla's league for arguing free-market, but let me give it a go:

The free market does take into account human nature.
To have faith in the free market, you don't have to have faith in the ultimate benevolence of those in charge, but instead have to have faith in a much more reliable emotion: Greed.

A company exists to make money. In a market without interference, the customer has the choice in what to pick. That choice is fundamental.

-If a company is failing to innovate/have a quality product, then there is a gap to make money. Greed causes another company to try and get their customers by innovating where the first one did not.
-If a company is price gouging (to satisfy 'greed'), another company will undercut them to take their customers (to satisfy their 'greed').
This competing 'greed' is pretty dirty/nasty looking, I'll admit. But the end result is a constant war to either make a cheaper or better product.

The way to break this system is to grant any company a permanent advantage that discourages competition....for example legislation that increases the barrier for entry and creates government-endorsed monopolies, or monopolies in general. But I do believe in one of Guerilla's videos Ron Paul talked about natural monopolies, so I won't dive into that.


And by the way Corporatism is not the same thing as capitalism.

On a final note:[Edit: Oops, didn't put something here]

 

[Andrew Scherer]

I'd have to disagree with you on that Jon.

One government controlling the world sounds like a complete disaster for the average joe just looking to enjoy freedom, free thinking, free speech, and privacy in life.

If you think politicians are bad now, imagine what they would be like without boundaries or external forces keeping them in check.

I'm starting to think one world without government would probably be a much nicer extreme.

 

[Ar Scion]

No one has proven that it exists. Only asserted it. Based on fallacious reasoning in my opinion.

Are you kidding? How many small businesses, those paragons of free market capitalism have been killed off by an overgrown business?

Wal-Mart, for example?

Don't tell me you're in denial about this.

 

[cheezile]

I'd have to disagree with you on that Jon.

One government controlling the world sounds like a complete disaster for the average joe just looking to enjoy freedom, free thinking, free speech, and privacy in life.

If you think politicians are bad now, imagine what they would be like without boundaries or external forces keeping them in check.

I'm starting to think one world without government would probably be a much nicer extreme.

Yeah I would think this too, I'm not sure if i'm correct but at least with multiple governments they have to compete for their citizens. If you don't like your current government then you can move to a new nation that will benefit you more. But with a one world government then you're stuck and if you don't agree with the current rules/regulations then to bad.

 

[guerilla]

Are you kidding? How many small businesses, those paragons of free market capitalism have been killed off by an overgrown business?

So are you protesting the outcome of competition?

Are we supposed to mourn the loss of firms which couldn't compete on price and service? Lament the defeat of bad businessmen in the market?

Wal-Mart, for example?

Yes, Walmart is the devil. They have a massive inventory, and they provide really low prices. Man, they are really fucking over the consumer. How dare they help people stretch their money further! How dare they provide a higher standard of living to those with less means.

Bastards!

Don't tell me you're in denial about this.

Denial about what? You still haven't made a case that anything wrong has occurred.

 

[guerilla]

I'm not in Guerilla's league for arguing free-market, but let me give it a go:

Great stuff. Really. You should have finished your post though.

One government controlling the world sounds like a complete disaster for the average joe just looking to enjoy freedom, free thinking, free speech, and privacy in life.

You hit the nail on the head. One world government is the dream of people who seek to end all competition between social systems, philosophies, religions, cultures etc. It is the death of the individual when he cannot express his own peaceful preferences according to his own free will.

Yeah I would think this too, I'm not sure if i'm correct but at least with multiple governments they have to compete for their citizens. If you don't like your current government then you can move to a new nation that will benefit you more. But with a one world government then you're stuck and if you don't agree with the current rules/regulations then to bad.

That's the argument that Hans Hoppe makes in Democracy the God that Failed. The world would be better with 1 million Monacos than 2 or 4 super powers. Those microstates would have to keep taxes and regulation low, or people would migrate to the next best destination.

If we accept competition as a principle not only for freedom, but for progress, then we have to insist upon competition in political and economic systems. To argue otherwise is to argue for stagnation.

 

[justo_tx]

Yes, Walmart is the devil. They have a massive inventory, and they provide really low prices. Man, they are really fucking over the consumer. How dare they help people stretch their money further! How dare they provide a higher standard of living to those with less means.

I agree with you on most things but singling out Wal-Mart as a provider of higher living standards is not one of them. Their low prices are partially government subsidized by pushing off health care and a living wage (resulting in the need for social assistance like food stamps, etc...) for their employees onto the state (google "wal-mart health care", read "The Wal-Mart Effect", or watch "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices".) Ironically that means they are beating their competition and executing exceptionally well from a purely market stand point.

 

[snavr]

If I wanted to sniff out all the crazies so I could keep an eye on them, I'd invent a guy like Alex Jones.

As for capitalism ... it's probably the best system so far. But it's not a perfect system by any means.

Every system has imbalances and there will always be people who take advantage of those imbalances - and push the system to cannibalize itself. Rebills is one example. The financial crisis is another ... the next biggest example would be the whole system itself ... abuse it long enough and hard enough and it will crash completely.

 

[guerilla]

I agree with you on most things but singling out Wal-Mart as a provider of higher living standards is not one of them. Their low prices are partially government subsidized by pushing off health care and a living wage (resulting in the need for social assistance like food stamps, etc...) for their employees onto the state (google "wal-mart health care", read "The Wal-Mart Effect", or watch "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices".) Ironically that means they are beating their competition and executing exceptionally well from a purely market stand point.

Right, but these guys are not making the argument that government intervention is the problem (that is my argument), the critique is that pure capitalism (which is without government intervention) is to blame.

There is lots of anti-Walmart propaganda put out by pro-union sources and misguided leftists, and yet people line up to work at their stores because there are not better alternatives in a bad economy.

CHARLES PLATT GOES UNDERCOVER AT WAL-MART - NYPOST.com

To the consumer, Walmart is fantastic. Their dollar goes farther and the number of goods under one roof is mind boggling (people from 50 years ago would be stunned by it). I'm not a fan of Walmart, but I am a fan of low prices and greater diversity of products.

 

[hellblazer]

In capitalism, more profit produces more opportunity to reinvest, which leads to more profit which leads to...in other words the rich get richer.

I had a Marxist economics professor who used to say this exact thing, so perhaps you heard it in one of our vaunted educational institutions.

It makes me think some people don't understand the free market system at all. Capitalism isn't some snack machine you insert investments into and automatically receive profits.

There are tons of people who make wrong investments, tons more who make unimpressive ones, and others who make the correct ones. The competition among those investing correctly means their profit margins are smaller too. It's not some perpetual profit machine. The stupid ones lose money. The mediocre ones will occasionally make money. The savvy ones will make a small profit. And the brilliant ones will scale it out and bank.

In short, you get exactly what you deserve. I can't think of a better system than that.

 

[evelynds]

Re-iterating- stop fucking your mind with conspiracies. The only way to form solid opinion is to experience these fellowships first-hand. A slightly open approach could be freemasonry. Plenty freemasons have/had intricate businesses of some sort. From there follow invites to the gentlemen's club, then the gentlemen's castle, and finally you might just end up being invited to converse with similar individuals at a hotel named The Bilderberg.

Honestly that's all there is to it. Brotherly societies with rich history, sharing views on rich futures. There will be haters but at the end of the day.. no-one gives a f* kind of like AM.

Will there be a representative someday who comes out and lays the plans out for all to see from the super secret groups and think tanks? I'd like to think so, but I don't know for sure, and neither do any of you, so what's the point of trying to figure it out anyway if we have no real control over the outcome to begin with?? You'll probably just end up driving yourselves just one step closer to insanity, and how does that effect your day to day life anyway? Does "figuring it all out" really make your life better? I don't think so. It doesn't, but it sure is easy and convenient to put blame on things we don't understand.

You can consider me part of "them". I won't deny it and I don't think I ever have, its just no one has ever asked until just the other day. It is in my opinion that the New World Order theory is something that humanity will eventually accept, thrive and likely look back and wonder why people were so hesitant to see it as a solid new platform to build upon. I think the big reason why there is so much unrest about it is because as humans we ultimately fear what we don't understand. The reason why most people don't understand it though is because it hasn't been properly disclosed or explained in-depth, so the mob effect goes into high gear and that's where the "evil plans" and conspiracy theories thrive.

 

[Jon]

I'd have to disagree with you on that Jon.

One government controlling the world sounds like a complete disaster for the average joe just looking to enjoy freedom, free thinking, free speech, and privacy in life.

If you think politicians are bad now, imagine what they would be like without boundaries or external forces keeping them in check.

I'm starting to think one world without government would probably be a much nicer extreme.

Well, it worked on Star Trek!

 

[gbmack]

Only a little bit of what Alex Jones says is valid.

He just stretches and exaggerates the truth to the max and sells his shit on the interwebz.

But you're right, if I were the gov and had some secret agenda I'd send a spiked dildo right up AJ's ass in no time.

 

[tjcocker]

Christ, what are all of you, 16 years old with a dictionary?

Visit the east coast, Martha's Vineyard, where the rich will only hire family, friends, family members of other rich friends, or people of their own race.

There are no classes? Grow up.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

Christ, what are all of you, 16 years old with a dictionary?

Visit the east coast, Martha's Vineyard, where the rich will only hire family, friends, family members of other rich friends, or people of their own race.

There are no classes? Grow up.

 

[tjcocker]

George Muthafuckin Washington, motherfuckers! He grew weed, didn't want to be a general, and hated being president after two terms even though he could have stayed in for life. Anyone else think they'd do that? That's leadership, not the gimme gimme fuckheads we have growing up today.

I just wanted to make that point... lol

 

[tjcocker]

So are you protesting the outcome of competition?

Are we supposed to mourn the loss of firms which couldn't compete on price and service? Lament the defeat of bad businessmen in the market?


Yes, Walmart is the devil. They have a massive inventory, and they provide really low prices. Man, they are really fucking over the consumer. How dare they help people stretch their money further! How dare they provide a higher standard of living to those with less means.

Bastards!


Denial about what? You still haven't made a case that anything wrong has occurred.

LOL... you live in some la-la land. In a world where money buys anything, Wal-Mart can pay to have port security compromised, and anything else they feel is best for them, and nobody can do a damn thing about it, free market or not.

"Wal-Mart and its retail lobby group, the Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA), are lobbying Members of Congress to oppose 100% scanning of port containers." "Even if the final price tag came in at $100 additional cost per container, it would raise the average price of cargo moved by Wal-Mart or Target by only .2 percent"

Don't even get me started on how they influence suppliers to stop dealing with their competitors. How is that capitalism?

Wake-Up Wal-Mart: The Real Wal-Mart Facts

 

[evelynds]

"Wal-Mart and its retail lobby group, the Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA), are lobbying Members of Congress to oppose 100% scanning of port containers." "Even if the final price tag came in at $100 additional cost per container, it would raise the average price of cargo moved by Wal-Mart or Target by only .2 percent"

Don't even get me started on how they influence suppliers to stop dealing with their competitors.

...and how exactly is any of this wrong? Not referring to popular debate or opinionated politics. As a business, isn't this precisely what anyone would want to achieve? I thought this forum was for businessmen..

*takes a few days off.

 

[hellblazer]

Don't even get me started on how they influence suppliers to stop dealing with their competitors. How is that capitalism?

Wake-Up Wal-Mart: The Real Wal-Mart Facts

You're parroting talking points from a union website that wants to FORCE the unionization of Walmart employees. Nice job advocating liberty there, fuckwad.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

tjcocker: