My Dispute With Hydra Network - Resolved
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Just bumping this post. It was a fresh account, so the reply had to be approved. The timestamp on the original(a few above this post) is when it was actually posted.Hello Forum,
Head of Marketing for Hydra here.
OK, I understand the tendency to see any big company as "the man" and the popularity of conspiracy theories. But please allow me to set the record straight.
1. The affiliate who started this whole thread didn't issue his "the issue was resolved" posting because we sued him. (We never sued him.) He did it because we were finally able to settle the matter - thanks to Mr. Wickedfire AKA Jon's stepping in and helping. In the interest of full disclosure, we did send a letter at the time of the initial posting way back when. You can see how well that worked.
2. We initially did try to come to a fair compromise settlement on the issue with the affiliate. He threatened to post. It was our understanding we were still working on a fair arrangement when he did post.
3. We did call Jon, to ask him to take a look at the situation and help mediate because we felt we were being unfairly maligned and wanted the truth to be known - without publicly divulging confidential communications between us, our advertiser and one of our affiliates. We turned over ALL of our email and AIM correspondence relating to this advertiser and the affiliate to him. After reviewing, he did express his verdict that Hydra was not the evil empire everyone claimed. Phew. Here is a quote:
"Now as for the affiliate and the whole story, I'm only like halfway through these enormous email logs, but from what it looks like, the affiliate DID in fact violate Hydra's Terms of Service with this campaign and wasn't very honest afterall, shocker."
You can see that post here.
4. Had we been clearer and faster in our communications, this whole issue might have been avoided. We apologize for that and will work harder to prevent it from ever happening again. That said, there will always be disputes and issues that arise. It's the nature of the beast. I can promise you this: We will always try to settle issues in a way that is fair and doesn't make you hate us.
5. We did not ignore this thread. In fact our Affiliate Director posted a lengthy response all the way back on 4/29/09. Here's the link.
6. Yes, we resisted/debated/agonized over posting a response here. For 2 reasons - 1) Business issues between Hydra and each of our affiliates are confidential. We don't go blabbing disputes, problems or whatever out in public, and 2) because of the anonymous nature of this forum and the prejudiced view held by some that networks and advertisers are unequivocally evil, it often happens that any posting is just an invitation to more controversy. Not being more vocal I can see was a mistake. Even though the affiliate offered no proof, everyone assumed we were the bad guy. Live and learn. (This is an attempt to start correcting it)
7. It's not in Hydra's interest to screw over our affiliates. For real! Our business depends on you! But we also can't screw over our advertisers. Our business depends on them too. We do try very hard to help our affiliates make money and grow their business over the long term. That's how we grow. And yeah, we know there are zillions of ad networks. We try to serve you better than the others so you stay with us.
What else? I don't know. If I missed something someone please tell me and I promise to respond. Hey and if you want you can call or email me directly. We have nothing to hide, I swear!
Mason Wiley
SVP Marketing, Hydra Network
Direct line (310) 432-1139
P.S. That picture of the kid with the gun to his head is hysterical - though completely untrue and inappropriate. As a father myself I find it highly offensive
Way back when I was caught doing something I shouldn't have been doing. When charged, I was more agitated that I got caught and not so much that I had committed a crime. I downplayed the charge and it went away, however certain circles still to this day remember every detail of what happened. I lost one job because of it, got another job that launched my career, and now I'm calling the shots over a LOT of the folks who earlier sought to put me in the grave.
Maybe Hydra should have come in earlier, or maybe the douche OP should have told the truth, or maybe we shouldn't have taken up pitchforks.
Point being the OP is a fucking douche for calling Hydra out. Hydra is run by a fucking pussy who let a fire spread among a LOT of potential affiliates. WE'RE all a bunch of wankers for reading these two threads and not working on shit that makes us money. And Wickedfire has a continued reputation of being the place to go to get information, attention, and results.
I hope Hydra has a LOT less WF affiliates because of this AND I hope that affiliates do the right thing and work more closely with networks to AVOID this sort of meaningless drama.
Maybe Hydra should have come in earlier, or maybe the douche OP should have told the truth, or maybe we shouldn't have taken up pitchforks.
Point being the OP is a fucking douche for calling Hydra out. Hydra is run by a fucking pussy who let a fire spread among a LOT of potential affiliates. WE'RE all a bunch of wankers for reading these two threads and not working on shit that makes us money. And Wickedfire has a continued reputation of being the place to go to get information, attention, and results.
I hope Hydra has a LOT less WF affiliates because of this AND I hope that affiliates do the right thing and work more closely with networks to AVOID this sort of meaningless drama.
Sure, advertisers are obviously important too. But without affiliates promoting zero revenue is generated for the network and the advertiser period. You can have all the advertiser relationships in the world, but without a pool of quality high volume affiliates the network has zero value to add to a merchant.
Thanks Nvan for your thanks.
I think advertisers and affiliates are a chicken and egg thing. Fact is you need both! You can distribute campaigns and drive conversions... but without anyone to pay for them what's the point?
Point #7 is the real issue in this case. By saying nothing in my opinion you come across as smug and that WF wasn't worth your time. Just my 2 cents. I see it as, because you haven't established a voice in the affiliate community you've made yourself "the man". No blog, twitter, forum posts. How does the affiliate community feel connected to you? If you know someone and you don't know someone else who are you going to side with everytime? Shit happens in this business and all businesses, how's it's handled is always the most important part.
Just my 3 cents. Take it for what it's worth.
Just my 3 cents. Take it for what it's worth.
I still am very curious what the OP did that he thought wasn't bad enough for him to tell us all about it, and start a witch hunt. It took either major stupidity on his part, for obviously it would come out eventually he did something shady, or major balls. I think it was a combination of both.
I think the OP knew he did something shady, but not "illegal" due to his own rationalizations, and felt it was worth a shot to get back at Hydra by denouncing them here. But it had to come full circle, it did, and we're left kind of pissed off that this whole incident was nothing more than a "failed fire drill" on Hydra's part.
Hydra has learned it needs to take WF seriously as a major force to be reckoned with regarding reputation.
The OP has learned he started a bogus witch hunt and definitely regrets it now I'm sure.
I've learned that you can't be so quick to judge any comments on a forum, even here. Hydra or any network would never risk rep. by not paying someone. I think we all knew the OP did something shady, would would a major company NOT pay someone if the traffic was solid? They make money when he does!
Answer: Moot, all we cared about was jumping on the bandwagon because Hydra didn't give WF any respect. And we'll do it again.
I think the OP knew he did something shady, but not "illegal" due to his own rationalizations, and felt it was worth a shot to get back at Hydra by denouncing them here. But it had to come full circle, it did, and we're left kind of pissed off that this whole incident was nothing more than a "failed fire drill" on Hydra's part.
Hydra has learned it needs to take WF seriously as a major force to be reckoned with regarding reputation.
The OP has learned he started a bogus witch hunt and definitely regrets it now I'm sure.
I've learned that you can't be so quick to judge any comments on a forum, even here. Hydra or any network would never risk rep. by not paying someone. I think we all knew the OP did something shady, would would a major company NOT pay someone if the traffic was solid? They make money when he does!
Answer: Moot, all we cared about was jumping on the bandwagon because Hydra didn't give WF any respect. And we'll do it again.
Yeah, the problem wasn't ever really with the OP's problem specifically. When Hydra didn't respond, people got shitty.
When Hydra ended up responded with a canned, bullshit, empty answer, people got shittier because it didn't help anybody and made Hydra look like they couldn't care less.
Your points 4, 5, 6 and 7 are the ones with the most relevance as to why people are pissed off at the network: the complete and total lack of response.
You still don't understand that, because they were the last points you made.
Smaxor is completely right. I can't imagine ANY accusations against A4D (or C2M, Copeac, Yep!Revenue; the networks whose owners post here regularly) without having a fast and adequate response from the network as to what's going on.
When Hydra ended up responded with a canned, bullshit, empty answer, people got shittier because it didn't help anybody and made Hydra look like they couldn't care less.
Your points 4, 5, 6 and 7 are the ones with the most relevance as to why people are pissed off at the network: the complete and total lack of response.
You still don't understand that, because they were the last points you made.
Smaxor is completely right. I can't imagine ANY accusations against A4D (or C2M, Copeac, Yep!Revenue; the networks whose owners post here regularly) without having a fast and adequate response from the network as to what's going on.
If Jon wasn't involved, then what do you think would have happened if Hydra came forward?
I can totally see why they didn't come forward and a lot of times it is the best way to deal with anonymous assholes like the OP.
@mason
^^^ What Jason said.
I can only speak from the point of view as an affiliate. I don't run offers w/ A4D but definitely would if there was a good fit for what I was promoting and same goes w/ Ruck (C2M).
However, I do with Mike (COPEAC) for one simple reason. All the people I just mentioned are an active part of the affiliate community and come on here and deal with things above board. I don't know Mike personally, nor have I ever talked to him directly...but I do get a sense of the kind of people they are based on the way they conduct themselves and deal with things.
The affiliate business to me is about one thing - relationships. I've been on several sides of it. I've been an affiliate manager, I've run offers as an advertiser (in fact I've run things on Hydra in the past, so I've been on the other end of this equation too) and now I'm a full time affiliate. Never been involved on the network side of it though. Anyways, I digress.
My point is becoming an active part of the community could go a long way for helping you scale your business and WF is the mother load when it comes to high volume / quality affiliates. I'm not trying to preach to you about how to run your business, but you should really consider actively engaging in the affiliate community.
Hell if you don't personally (or someone more appropriate) have the bandwidth, hire someone who's job it is to be the "affiliate liason" or whatever you want to call it. Communication, participating in social media, creating incentives & contensts...whatever it takes. Essentially the "affiiliate champion" inside of your organization, parallel to the functions that your AMs do on a day to day basis.
Food for thought.
i appreciate the constructive criticism and will definitely work to be a more active participant on behalf of Hydra and affiliate-network issues overall. Thanks everyone.
Yup - what Smax said. I never worry if Smax or Ruck are going to pay me, so I ALWAYS look to them first for offers to run, with Advaliant and COPEAC next in line. Why? Because I know they are active on WickedFire and will address an issue as soon as it arises.
Sometimes, it's the principle of an issue more than the money. I remember awhile back when one of the offers I was running with A4D had issues for a couple days and I was fucked out of a small amount of money ($500 - $600). As soon as I raised the issue to Smax, he told me to email him how much money I felt I was owed, and within an hour I was credited that amount. A few hundred dollars is nothing, yet he went out of his way to make sure I was taken care of. End result - he's made tens of thousands off of me because he took the time to do the right thing. At the end of the day, it's all about building relationships and the networks that we always talk good about on here are the ones that do that the best.
Hydra has a long way to go to get to that point, but finally addressing the issue publicly is a step in the right direction. Now if I can keep the same AM there for more than a month, I might feel secure enough to run one of your offers...
Sometimes, it's the principle of an issue more than the money. I remember awhile back when one of the offers I was running with A4D had issues for a couple days and I was fucked out of a small amount of money ($500 - $600). As soon as I raised the issue to Smax, he told me to email him how much money I felt I was owed, and within an hour I was credited that amount. A few hundred dollars is nothing, yet he went out of his way to make sure I was taken care of. End result - he's made tens of thousands off of me because he took the time to do the right thing. At the end of the day, it's all about building relationships and the networks that we always talk good about on here are the ones that do that the best.
Hydra has a long way to go to get to that point, but finally addressing the issue publicly is a step in the right direction. Now if I can keep the same AM there for more than a month, I might feel secure enough to run one of your offers...
totally agree..
Cease a desist from hydra. No doubt about it.
Funny thing is, the rest of us can keep this GREAT publicity going on behalf of our good friends at hydra until JON closes the thread...which by my count, is coming soon...
Cease a desist from hydra. No doubt about it.
Funny thing is, the rest of us can keep this GREAT publicity going on behalf of our good friends at hydra until JON closes the thread...which by my count, is coming soon...
Did you miss the part where they responded to this thread a few times? Hydra has stated that they settled the matter with him and didn't threaten him. I'm highly doubting they issued a C&D.