How Hydra Affiliate Network Screwed Me Out Of $25,000
- Thread starter BTP32
- Start date
- Status
Why can't the advertisers suspend the offer when it reaches a certain threshold, like $50,000 without scrubbing legitimate leads? By your reasoning, it's perfectly understandable that they continue reaping the benefit of the affiliates' leads, while stealing their rightfully earned conversion payments if the tab gets too large. That's why affiliates here are calling you shady.
...wait - what? You want networks to cancel offers once they hit $50,000 in leads? That makes no sense. If I'm misunderstanding your point, can you clarify it?
The $50,000 was an arbitrary number meant to represent the advertiser's budget. His point is that the advertiser should pause the campaign altogether once they reach their budget limit rather than scrub legitimate leads to keep it running.
You're making excuses for businesses not knowing how to run, plan and budget their business? Damn! I wish I had someone like you going to bat for me when I make a budgeting or planning error so I could get someone else to pay for my carelessness.
Isn't it the responsibility of the network to vet these rogue "businesses" who "jump into the game without knowing what they are getting into" for viability to do business on the network under the TOS? How is it that "they don't know what they are getting into"?
Nope, I don't work for Hydra and I don't do one dime of business in the mainstream game.
I do, however, know how this business works from top to bottom. I'm not in here making excuses for anyone - I couldn't care less on either side... consider me a benevolent observer who has decided to finally say something. The fact is this: If you are an affiliate and you've never run a network/program, then you just don't have all the information. I'm trying to HELP you guys understand how this business works and how to protect yourself.
Business is not a democracy, it's dog-eat-dog. Some networks do a better job of sugar coating it and marketing themselves.. but don't be complacent.. the mighty dollar trumps all.
Just wait til advertisers start blowing up their merchant accounts, then when the 3rd part billers come in.. and then THEY start blowing up. Believe me.. there are going to be people who lose many 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars in bad deals, it's not going to stop. On the flip side.. way more money is going to be made than lost.
You guys can keep flaming me like children or check your ego at the door and try and learn something.
It's quaint that you think a network would have your best interests in mind when making business deals. Affiliates are a means to an end.
Any business partnership is only as good a the profit it generates.. it's not a warm fuzzy kumbaya fest. Business is cold and heartless.. get used to it.
I have absolutely nothing to do with Hydra and, to be honest, I know little to nothing about their specific business. I do not speak for or represent them in any way.
My knowledge is from years of experience in the Adult industry.. we have been doing the whole affiliate marketing thing for a lot longer than any of these 'mainstream' networks and affiliates have been around.
QualityHealth has been around for quite a while - they know exactly what they're doing when they fuck over publishers & networks. They know exactly what their leads are worth - and I can guarantee you that they're not scrubbing just because they hit their budget.
They're scrubbing so that they can show a high CPA & entice people to promote it. Either that, or they've got a shitty dynamic pixel system. I'll vote for the former option.
teh Interweb Rockzors!
Any other Internet memes you want to use?
a) I've run a program, I know the numbers upside down and inside out
b) Any program that blanket guarantees all payments is setting themselves up to be defrauded of 100s of thousands of dollars
c) Fuck YOURSELF noob.
I would venture to guess we haven't seen the last of this. There is a tipping point, for the networks, where the losses will outweigh the benefit of them taking all the risk - making sure the affiliates get paid.
Not everyone is clean from affiliates to networks to advertisers. This can be a cluster fuck when all 3 line up the wrong way.
I've never heard of any networks that cap based on $$. That would definitely be a good thing to start doing though. I know that networks, especially the smaller ones, will cap the quantity of leads per day. This helps the smaller/newer advertisers stay within their budgets so they don't get in over their heads and screw over affiliates like the OP.
Also, there was some talk about how advertisers pay networks upfront; this isn't true UNLESS it's a new advertiser. I was looking into starting an offer ($40 street payout) and the network wanted 5k upfront for the first week of traffic. They wanted weekly payments after that.
Bottom line: the networks are the middle man - to take a cut means they also must take a risk. They should pay BTP32, he did his job.
Hey TAG, I think that's an overly cynical way at looking at networks, and business in general. Not all businesses are run with a "fuck everyone as long as I make a buck" mentality. While I agree that there are some businesses that run things that way, I have always believed that running that way is extremely short sighted and will ultimately lead to the failure of your business. And I'm not some clueless newbie to this business either. I've been working the internet probably just as long as you.
Affiliates are not "a means to an end" for properly run networks. They are our customers. As a business, if you shit on your customers often enough, you'll lose them. This is especially important as a CPA network because there are hundreds of competing networks around and there are more starting up every week. What separates a network from others when so many offer the same campaigns at the same rates? Strong relationships. And you aren't going to build strong relationships by regularly fucking over your customers - your affiliates.
Some people have expressed that the only real function of a network is to float payments for affiliates. That's not really true. Networks are in the business of relationship management. That's our real function. We manage the relationships that affiliates and merchants are either unwilling or unable to manage themselves. As a network, we cannot succeed if we regularly undermine, screw over, ignore or take for granted these relationships.
Strike that. We cannot succeed IN THE LONG RUN if we do these things. This industry is littered with the carcasses of failed networks who did not realize this. Some of them shot up and burned bright for a while, but ultimately they fell just as fast (or will soon) once they fucked over enough people.
And with all due respect, I do not believe experience in the adult industry carries over very well into mainstream internet marketing. The choices available to adult affiliates is not the same as the choices available to mainstream affiliates.
Properly run networks do this all the time. The cap won't necessarily be X leads per day, but will be based on the amount of credit extended to the mechant. Too much credit extended = campaigns pulled from network. The amount of credit extended is based on credit checks and/or existing payment history with the merchant.
And those "means" can disappear in a hurry if enough abuse happens. No "means" ergo no "end".
@Steve: great response.
See this is why "MaxSteve" is in Mainstream and the Shady biz "ThatAdultGuy" is in the adult game, where you can pull off bullshit business practices. The so-called Business model "ThatAdultGuy" outlines of caring less for affiliates not having to pay them out. I guess he is use to affiliates that spam to get traffic to shit adult sites and feels he can push them around. "ThatAdultGuy" wouldnt last 2 seconds in the mainstream business with that kind of attitude. Hydra needs to learn from this thread. Competition is steep right now in the CPA network game and they can be knocked off very easily for not taking this kind of bad press seriously.
Oh thanks Adult IM god. We all bow at your exceptional and vast bastion of knowledge. You appear to have ZERO idea of who's here and what the collection of knowledge and experience already resides. You are pompass and empty headed to try and pass basic information as it is the holy grail of network and AM culture. People here GET how this business works. ITs just that some networks are doing business the wrong way. And now its becoming more and more common. Youve shed no new light on the trend, moron.
- Status