How can the American people compete with $1.78/hr?

[momchil9]

As every strong economy, the US one is focused on services rather than production. US/Canda/EU get money for intellectual labor, China/Other Asian countries/Turkey get their money from production and exporting.

You gotta be more concerned about if(when) the chinese folks will get better at inventing/marketing. Then they will beat the western world.

And btw, when they develop that much that they start focusing on their market(read they have enough smart people that know what they are doing) instead of just exporting to other counties we are just fucked. And they will. I don't think chinese officials have a plan to run a shithole country that just makes cheap ass things for other countries, they despise, forever.

Oh... yeah, and everyone who isn't leveraging cheap outsorcing better get their priorities straight - do you want to make the world a better place or do you wanna make money.

 

[Dresden14]

Another point proven: Just got off the phone with Verizon customer support (office DSL). I know the fuckers name who answered the phone was not "Bill".

 

[craigmc]

Back in the 60's we had Tariffs that leveled the playing field for American companies. American workers produced electronics, automobiles, clothing and most other goods.

Now with out the protection of tariffs we manufacture very little. Corporate greed took over after this and now most all manufacturing is out sourced.

I own a German car assembled in Mexico riding on Korean tires. Interesting to say the least. The only thing that I know on it that is American is the sat rad.

 

[Moxie]

actually everyone is griping because American socialism, minimum wage and higher taxes have restricted the free market and forced labor overseas.

China is not a free market either. Labor unions are banned except for those run by the Chinese government. They also control the education system and there are workers right now making Ipods whose only goal is to become a nurse, but in order to get their degree they have to do X amount of hours as an "intern" at wherever the government tells them to go. Right or wrong, companies like Apple take advantage of this non-free market system just like a janitor will take advantage of a scenario that allows him to get $25 an hour.

Also :

Products Made in Chinese Prison Camps Illegally Exported to U.S. | Change.org News

China used prisoners in lucrative internet gaming work | World news | The Guardian

 

[hellblazer]

Why the fuck would anyone in their right mind want to compete with people who are willing to live in dorms, earn less then 2$ an hour, work more then 50 hours a week AND are proud of it.

You're a moron. Willing to live in dorms? Read the stories about the iPad "factory" that built nets around their compound to catch the "workers" jumping to their deaths. These aren't "factories"; they're slave labor camps.

If you read Leverage by Denninger, this is one of the main reasons the American economy is in such bad shape. There is no such thing as fair competition when one country doesn't abide by environmental laws and employs the use of slave labor.

"Complaining" or not aside, it's not sustainable on any level. Normally, a trade imbalance should resolve itself. Denninger writes about how they've tried to conceal this with the federal deficits. I don't claim to understand the entire picture, but at this point, I'm thinking the interest rates are the main triggerpoint. The Fed can't go any lower than zero, and the minute they go higher they trigger derivative contracts and implode the big banks, not to mention potentially the federal government, which is already paying around 500 billion a year in pure interest. So all that's left is the inevitable crisis caused by runaway inflation, which is happening now and will probably escalate in the coming year.

 

[BigWill]

You think these people WANT to work for a dollar an hour? They do it because they HAVE to and big ass companies exploit this.

And the "took our job" lot can get to fuck, they have more opportunity than these people will ever have, yet they just sit on their fucking asses.

You must be a communist. Could they now grow vegetables and live in a fucking hut if they wanted to? I hope you die of aids, commy bitch.

 

[lukep]

People work these jobs because even shit wages like that can supplement their low living costs, but even so the wages are still too low. In relative terms, what would a US citizen earn for that many hours worked?

People with your mentality seriously piss us off because your mentality is both extremely Harmful and easily preventable.

I'll refrain from calling you names now because I know how you got that way; it's in the government's and Media's best interest to have you believe that such types of socialism are the solution... So people like Obama and Romney get voted in every single time playing the classes off each other like they do.

The fact is though that for every penny you raise the minimum wage, you're also raising the cost of living too. So if you were to pay everyone in the country $500 dollars an hour, a happy meal will soon be ~$500 too.

At this point you've only succeeded in penalizing US, the entrepreneurs & business owners, who will get paid less relatively, and worse, will have to be the ones PAYING those minimum wage-earners... So obviously we would have no incentive to stick around and take it up the ass like that!


tl:dr; As you raise the minimum wage, you raise the price of goods by the same amount and punish the biz owners among you. Pretty soon your country will be void of entrepreneurs and business owners altogether. North Korea here we come!

Fuck off you dumb pieces of shit.

Insomniac; Plz go back and re-read Jake's post. I think you'll find he's on the same side as you.

So all that's left is the inevitable crisis caused by runaway inflation, which is happening now and will probably escalate in the coming year.

Congratulations Hellboy, You've managed to write one whole post that didn't make me want to throw something stinky at you!

I don't see how it makes SecretAgentDad a moron though; His point was that those jobs suck anyway, and if you ever find yourself in that situation, use creativity to find a better job.

I do agree on the inflation though. November will be interesting, to say the least.

Too bad we're not allowed to have a president that recognizes that the Socialism in the USA is the thing sending our jobs overseas and causes 99% of our country's ills. Sigh.

 

[ARVolund]

A successful business indeed, but created from selling out to the lowest bidder. Similar to walmart, these bullshit corporations need to quit outsourcing. There's nothing wrong with 10billion in profit.. I mean for fuck sakes?

Walmart buys and sell all that cheap crap from China because that is what everyone wants to buy. If people were willing to pay a bit more for American made products that is what they would sell.

Back in the late 80's early 90's when Walmart was still pushing the whole made in America thing I used to go hunting and drinking with the manager for one of the local Walmart. They used to have a lot more made in America products but nobody would buy them. They would have two similar products on a shelf, one a cheap Chinese product and another better quality American product and just about everybody would go for the cheap stuff and leave the American made products sitting on the self collecting dust. Sometimes the difference would be only pennies but still people would go for the cheap stuff.

Walmart is in the business of selling people what they want to buy, if people really were tired of buying cheap Chinese goods they would stop selling them. Just like in this thread everyone gets up on their high horse and bitches about paying workers in China instead of making stuff in the US but when it comes right down to it nobody is willing to spend the extra money on products that cost more.


Anyway it is not just about hourly wages there are a lot of other reasons why companies do not build plants in the US. Way too much Govt crap to put up with. Look at the shit that the NLRB did with the Boeing plant Carolina. Boeing spends billions building a plant and then the Govt comes along and says they can not open it up. How about the crap they are pulling with Gibson guitars? I doubt it will be all that long before Gibson gives up and just makes all their guitars overseas because the feds are dicking them around.

How about you guys that have employees, think about all the crap you need to do just to hire somebody. Seriously the Govt goes out of its way to make it hard to hire an American and it has nothing to do with the hourly wage.

There are a lot of reasons the Chinese are kicking our asses and low wages is only one of them. The number of anti capitalist crap the Govt does has a lot more to do with how badly this country is doing. Way more than how much we make an hour. It is a pretty sad state of affairs when Communist China does Capitalism better than the US but that is where we are today.

 

[jenzkc]

You gotta be more concerned about if(when) the chinese folks will get better at inventing/marketing. Then they will beat the western world.

China's closer to becoming a service-based economy than most people realize.

 

[danke]

americans are worthless as fuck

Pay commission only.

Take 60% of their sales for them using your office.

Keep renewals.

Post on wickedfire while they cold call seniors...


LIKE A BOSS

 

[g1c9]

1. Of course cheaper labor/foxcon/little kids building my shit makes it cheaper... Apple is only one buyer who contracts with FOXCON, every other large electronic manufacturer does as well, and they pass the savings on to you
2. The suicide rates at the factories, IIRC, aren't actually worse than a comprable city. I might be wrong on this -- I don't really know or care. They're taking and staying in the jobs voluntarily.

These jobs are in China because there is a massive discrepancy between what Americans are willing to work these jobs for and what Americans want to pay for their new computer. But there is nothing wrong with this...

I don't share your Nationalism; I side with people everywhere. China is nowhere near "ahead of us." They're on the brink of a revolution because the average person still makes 2 fucking dollars a day and eats nothing but rice while watching Chinese billionaires and Americans live well "off of" their cheap labor. Their human rights index is total shit; their government still tells them how many damn kids they're allowed to have. US media doesn't talk about this much, though.

I'm glad we're sending our jobs over there, and I'm glad they're getting small raises year after year. I can't wait until a billion more people are making livable wages and enjoying similar comforts as us.

fuck

 

[Fastb]

You requested the source of the 97 Billion number, here it is:

A Relative Look at Apple’s Cash Reserves | Apple Stock Watch | The Mac Observer

Let me also point out that if you review their financial report you will find that they pay a lower net tax rate than your average local taco stand. Why? Because they pay Millions to lobbyists to get out of paying Billions in taxes.

They enjoy all the benefits of being US based, but the average Joe gets to pay their share of the tax burden while they play shell games and hide their cash offshore.

Steve Jobs is going to be in the history books both as a charismatic pioneer in business and also as one of the most despicable and corrupting robber barons of all time.

 

[music4mic]

In relative terms, what would a US citizen earn for that many hours worked?

Nothing because deh tuk er jobs. It's quite the paradox isn't it?

 

[lukep]

Steve Jobs is going to be in the history books both as a charismatic pioneer in business and also as one of the most despicable and corrupting robber barons of all time.

If so, then ALL of "the most despicable and corrupting robber barons" are from our time... So he'd be lost in the cloud.

 

[geomark]

They're screaming "teh tuk er jobs" over here in Thailand, too. Americans think Thailand is just another cheap manufacturing country in Asia but China undercut them and almost all the electronics manufacturing left. Only hard drives are still made here, but got crushed by the flooding so that might leave next. Cars and trucks still big but China might gobble that up in the future.

How did that happen? It isn't about minimum wage. Factory workers earn about US$9 per day which is a little higher than minimum wage here but appears to be lower than what Foxconn workers make it. I think it is about other factors, like the scale of the factories, size of available labor force, tax incentives, ability to get it done without wasted months of greasing palms, etc.

 

[JakeStratham]

I'm glad we're sending our jobs over there, and I'm glad they're getting small raises year after year. I can't wait until a billion more people are making livable wages and enjoying similar comforts as us.

Agreed. There are a lot of things wrong with the labor markets in China (same with the U.S., as ARVolund demonstrated above). Despite this, these people have been given an opportunity to improve their lives. Why else would they do it? As long as every exchange/negotiation between employer and employee is voluntary, it's fine, even if some of the latter choose to commit suicide.

Minimum wage laws remove any opportunity for a low-productivity person to work. If a guy with no skills can only add $5 an hour to my bottom line, why on earth would I pay him $7.25 an hour (current minimum wage, IIRC)? Instead, remove the disastrous minimum wage laws, and let the dude negotiate privately for as much as he is able to get. Maybe I'd pay him $4.90.

 

[hehejo]

Nothing wrong with outsourcing.

You pay them in us dollars, so they will use the us dollars to buy stuff from the usa later, or pay someone else who will then buy us stuff. Hoarding doesn't make sense because of inflation.

So nothing is lost to China, it has to come back and will create jobs in the export industry.

If they can't use the dollars anymore to buy things, they will stop accepting them quickly.

 

[crackp0t]

 

[blogspotter]

We wants a Free Ekonomees.. Only we wants to sell our products/services, but we don't wants to buys your serviceees..

 

[Dresden14]

Walmart buys and sell all that cheap crap from China because that is what everyone wants to buy. If people were willing to pay a bit more for American made products that is what they would sell.

Don't agree... People buy crap from these stores because its what they can "afford" to buy, not what they "want to buy". They can "afford" to buy it because there's no jobs due to outsourcing. I can afford expensive shit, but if I go out and buy a shirt from an expensive store its still made in Bangladesh or china - so do I even have an option? No... Outsourcing was only just recently heavily promoted (80s-90s seems about right). This all falls in line with my initial point imo.