Bitcoin hits $100
- Thread starter lcver
- Start date
I'm sorry, but that's what you guys do. When arguing in favor of anarchy, you corner people by using "A or B" questions. When they select the common sense answer of B, you guys then say, "so if you believe B, then you have to believe this, because otherwise you'd be irrational and going against your own logic", when the world just isn't that black and white.
Every conversation with an anarchist
Anarchist: Do you support the theft that is taxation to pay for state sponsored roads or schools?
Rational Person: Umm, yes.
Anarchist: Well statist, you are literally a nazi.
Anarchist: Do you support the theft that is taxation to pay for state sponsored roads or schools?
Rational Person: Umm, yes.
Anarchist: Well statist, you are literally a nazi.
I honestly believe that if people understood the true nature of Government along with their real agenda and motivations that no sane person would support or defend them.
And no, I'm not calling you a Nazi. Outside of philosophy I'm sure I'd get along great with both of you. 99% of the people close to me in real life are hardcore statists, and I don't hold it against them. I just think they're misinformed and that the Government is very good at what they do as far as indoctrination, propaganda and creating the illusion that they're necessary, good for society and that "the people" have some sort of control over them.
Because right and wrong exist. If you don't believe that right and wrong exist, then you're a moral relativist. And that's fine. Never claim anything anyone does is morally or ethically incorrect.
JUST BE CONSISTENT.
Yes, it is troublesome when someone points out that a person is contradictory to their own stated beliefs, or cognitively dissonant.
I get it, I really do. Most people aren't interested in logic or empiricism. They have a belief system which is tied to their sense of identity, and the facts are irrelevant.
I am pretty sure being intellectually *cough* flexible *cough* had some sort of evolutionary advantage at one time, but in a post-enlightenment society, it's really an albatross.
No, because for example, slapping someone across the face and beheading them are two different things. Yet, when you guys are debating anarchy, you guys will manipulate the person into believing it's the same thing.
"If you don't believe in beheading people, then you can't believe in slapping people, which means you have to agree to the non-aggression principle, which means you can't believe in forced taxation, which means you can't believe in a police force or public education system, and blah, blah, blah..."
Non-aggression is a simple idea. Don't hurt innocent people.
Why is this such a difficult concept for you? Most small children understand it instinctively.
Because it doesn't work, unless you can get all 7 billion of us on board at the same time. Have fun with that.
You admit not initiating violence against others is a good thing right?
So because every individual might not adhere to the non-aggression principle, we should instead do the opposite and delegate legalized mafia's all over the planet, whose very existence relies on initiating (or threatening) aggression? What are you afraid of if government didn't exist? You think we'd all start murdering each other? The moment we slip into a stateless society, your eyes will turn blood red and you'll start murdering people with the nearest sharpest knife?
That's the same type of argument people make who are for drug laws. "Well, I don't really think imprisoning people for drugs is good.. But if you legalize them, everyone'll start doing meth and we'll split into "ANARCHY!!"
No, I do not.
Was this meant to be a direct quote of mine? It's pretty damn close. Propaganda will be the #1 weapon, and putting a heavier hand on the exchanges will be the #2 weapon. I've said all this before. The thing is; the very large and active bitcoin community has been planning for these tactics since 2010 or so... Whatever the gov does has already been planned for years in advance.
...Then there is the fact that it would just be 1 government, while bitcoin is worldwide.
Related:
Today's news pushing up bitcoin's price? Australia just put their first-ever tax on all retirement accounts. A 15% haircut!
Welcome to bitcoin, ozzies.
"Control bitcoin?"
You are clearly ignorant of what bitcoin is. Satoshi Nakamoto himself could not control it. You might as well credit the government with the power of controlling the flow of plasma on the surface of the sun.
What level of exchanges?
Just the top guys like Mt.Gox and BTC-E? None of those are american (yet) so it'd have to be a worldwide effort.
Or the middle level including all of the worldwide money uploaders? There would be over a hundered of those now in half as many countries.
Or did you mean the many, many websites/services/Apps that allow people to do person-to-person (Over the counter) exchanges too? I'm not even going to guess how many of those exist now... I doubt too many of them form legit businesses though...
In short, Uncle Sam is too late, and too limited. They can either step up their DDossing game to shut down the top 5-10 exchanges for long periods of time, or spend the big bucks to attempt a 51% attack on bitcoin itself.
I can't really see them getting organized enough to do either in time.
Bitcoin was specifically designed to NEVER be adopted by world governments.
It was designed to end them.
I think it's doing an incredible job.
Mass adoption? As in displacing the primary currency in most regions?
No. It doesn't need to though.
The freedom people, like myself, are in bitcoin to educate others about freedom... That's our goal, not the public's goal, obviously.
However, naysay all you want, every time someone starts using bitcoin, they get educated about possibilities that uncle sam and other government never wanted them to know about.
Even the most sheeply of sheep will be learning a lot about freedom from bitcoin.
Properly formatted that for you.
This won't happen until the price is fully discovered. No one has any solid numbers on what area that could land in, and how many crashes we could have first.
...I'm personally guessing that it'll like go to $1000ish this time, crash back to $20-$100, then grow back to something like $100k per bitcoin in the next 5-10 years.
...THEN it should stabilize, given enough merchants and exchanges. So don't expect this any day soon.
This is in the works, the bitcoin community is very active on this front and new exchanges and even trading platforms are announced almost daily.
Mt.Gox's move to Silicon Valley will likely provide a lot more of these benefits until uncle sam decides to lean on it hard one day.
Same as the first answer. Stability is required here.
I think he should have given you this chart instead:
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular
No exchanges, nor even gambling addresses in that one.
Clearly more people are USING bitcoin all the time. What do you expect to happen when more people buy it and then discover that they now have more purchasing power?
There are core industries of bitcoin USERS that you don't seem to think exist.
Both the black market and Gambling are dependent on bitcoin now... For this reason alone, bitcoin cannot die or get too small.
But if you keep up with the bitcointalk community boards (and no one really can, there are tens of thousands of new posts a day) then you will see that new services start up at an incredible pace, all which only take bitcoins.
The goal of that huge and dedicate community is clear: To REPLACE the existing economy with a bitcoin economy.
Laugh at them all you want, they won't notice.
They're too busy.
Sure it works. It works all the time where I live.
But that aside, why do you ever criticize anything if you don't believe that right and wrong actually matters?
Why do you chime in on threads about matters of justice if you really believe the world is fundamentally unjust and no one can change that?
Better yet, would slavery have ever ended if everyone thought as you do?
Pretty funny. A Porsche was just sold and the transaction was handled in bitcoins:
Man Buys 2007 Porsche Cayman S for 300… Digital Bitcoins, Which Initially Cost $1,200! - Carscoops
Man Buys 2007 Porsche Cayman S for 300… Digital Bitcoins, Which Initially Cost $1,200! - Carscoops
Question for Luke (or anyone else actively trading bitcoins atm) - someone posted earlier that Mt.gox has a monthly widthdrawal limit of $10,000 (https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20490576-Withdrawals-and-Deposits). So if you were holding 5000 bitcoins right now, and wanted to sell your position and cash out - would you have to wait 100 months before you could collect your full USD position from the exchange? That seems like a ludicrous limit to have in place, but I couldn't find anything on the exchange to suggest otherwise. If that is the case, are there any other ways to 'instantly' convert and withdrawal as a currency of your choosing? Otherwise, how on earth can any of you feel comfortable keeping any significant balance on these exchanges?
-EDIT - I see that you can get your limits raised by sending in scans of an id and they will "review your document and increase your withdraw limit based on your risk profile" (pretty vague, but whatever). I guess question should be now have any of you gotten limits raised and withdrawn any significant amount of money.
-EDIT - I see that you can get your limits raised by sending in scans of an id and they will "review your document and increase your withdraw limit based on your risk profile" (pretty vague, but whatever). I guess question should be now have any of you gotten limits raised and withdrawn any significant amount of money.
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I've thought about this a lot. Unfortunately I don't have this problem, but what I'd do is spend it on hard assets - gold/silver, guns, bullets, etc...
If you live in a big city maybe try to sell for cash locally.
You can buy pretty much anything with them, check BitcoinTalk.org.
Edited to add: I wouldn't trust any exchange with a large amount of Bitcoin. And if I were heavily invested now I'd be cashing out at least 1/2 my portfolio, but that's just me. On that note I'm not invested at all right now because I didn't think they'd keep going up, so take that for what it's worth.
The buyer thought he got that Porsche for $35k but 2 weeks later those bitcoins are worth almost $55k so he got fucked royally. So what incentive does anyone have to actually spend their bitcoins if they risk losing significant money by not holding onto them?
I keep hearing this talk about all these new merchants accepting Bitcoin which sounds good, but as a customer I would never want to spend them as the price is shooting up, and as a merchant I would never want to accept them as the price plummets.
That's a HUGE problem.