Be a Ron Paul Delegate. I'll figure it out for you.

subigo said:
For fuck's sake... how many of you spent two years of your life working for the RNC, having to explain this shit to people everyday? I did.
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I know you from your past to be a person of integrity, but it's hard for me to believe that Paul's entire strategy is based upon getting delegates that are already wrapped up and unavailable.

Can you at least point us to some hard evidence online where the GOP has inserted their own delegates to unbound slots that aren't voted in at all?
 


lukep said:
Can you at least point us to some hard evidence online where the GOP has inserted their own delegates to unbound slots that aren't voted in at all?
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3 out of 40 here in MN are reserved for some top Republican Positions.

3 are elected in each of the 8 Congressional District Conventions.

13 are elected at the State Convention.
 
lukep said:
I know you from your past to be a person of integrity, but it's hard for me to believe that Paul's entire strategy is based upon getting delegates that are already wrapped up and unavailable.

Can you at least point us to some hard evidence online where the GOP has inserted their own delegates to unbound slots that aren't voted in at all?
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It's not some conspiracy theory, it's just the way it works. First, you have the state reserved super-delegates. This year there are 126 of them. These are automatic GOP pushers... a sort of trump card. They are already pledged to Romney. That takes his number of "real" delegates that are needed to win down to 1018. Then you have the have about 300 "elected" unelected delegates, which are given their status by... guess who? The superdelegates. Add those together and Romney now only needs 718 delegates to win. He has 573 already.

Paul will not win. No matter what.
 
subigo said:
It's not some conspiracy theory, it's just the way it works. First, you have the state reserved super-delegates. This year there are 126 of them. These are automatic GOP pushers... a sort of trump card. They are already pledged to Romney. That takes his number of "real" delegates that are needed to win down to 1018. Then you have the have about 300 "elected" unelected delegates, which are given their status by... guess who? The superdelegates. Add those together and Romney now only needs 718 delegates to win. He has 573 already.
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Even if all of that is true, where are you getting 573? The media's quotes? The GOPs? These are all bullshit numbers. Romney's turnouts are smaller than Newt's! Paul's turnouts have been referred as "Beatlemania II."

And what happens if both Romney and Paul get enough delegates?
 
lukep said:
Even if all of that is true, where are you getting 573? The media's quotes? The GOPs? These are all bullshit numbers. Romney's turnouts are smaller than Newt's! Paul's turnouts have been referred as "Beatlemania II."

And what happens if both Romney and Paul get enough delegates?
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573 is the number that's already set in stone. Those are the the delegates that are bound by the state rules to vote for the winner. That's why I linked you to the RNC site... those are the official, already bound, delegates. Those are set in stone and will not change. After the votes are counted, each congressional district reports the delegate count directly to the RNC. In fact, I'm pretty sure they send the report via the gop.com site directly.
 
lukep said:
And what happens if both Romney and Paul get enough delegates?
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I missed that part... it won't happen. Simply because there won't be enough free delegates for a tie. You have to remember, Santorum just suspended his campaign and locked up 200'ish delegates right there. So what, you ask? Well that means the super-delegates will now poll all of Santorum's bound delegates (who are required to vote for him unless he official drops out, not just suspends his bid). If the poll indicates that they would swing over to Romney, you'll see Santorum officially end his campaign, not just suspended it. This will free up his delegates and allow them to move to Romney. If the poll indicates they would swing over to Paul, you'll see Santorum keep his campaign "suspended" until after the convention.

No matter what, you have to see that it's rigged from the beginning. And at this point, there is absolutely NO way that Paul can win. In fact, once the results are officially polled and updated for the previous two weeks, Romney will have around 686 bound delegates. Less than 50 away from unofficially winning.
 
subigo said:
...Way too much scary shit...
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Listen bro, we agree that things have been set in motion since before the start of the election to stop every possible way Paul could proceed. Hell, since 2007 in fact.

However, there has got to be a way. If it can't happen through politics, it's going to happen through bloodshed eventually. Could be in August or November.

If you're so smart with these rules, don't just give up... Find a way around. What can be done to buck the system that they haven't or preferably could not have planned for?
 
lukep said:
What can be done to buck the system that they haven't or preferably could not have planned for?
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Nothing that will get Ron Paul in. I honestly think that the only reason he is even running is to get younger people interested and involved in politics. He's doing it so his *son* might have a shot at the White House in the future. However, that still doesn't matter, because it'll be at least 20+ years before those in charge of the RNC are gone and dead. The only way to change anything is to have a serious third-party or a war. Neither of which I see happening soon.
 
It's also possible that some of the bound delegates can abstain from voting in the first ballot, similar to what happened in 1976. What a few people are looking into right now is what kind of effect that would have, and quite possibly, this won't make a difference at all. In some delegations, the chairperson of that delegation enters all their bound votes on the first ballot. Not all of these chairpersons are going to be 'establishment' GOP, so it may get interesting what they will do.

What I think may be more interesting is that the probability of a serious, can't be ignored fuckup by Romney increases every time he opens his mouth; This is why I think why Gingrich is still in the race, because this guy did himself in:

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I wouldn't be surprised if GOP comes up with a reason to refuse to seat some of the delegates at the RNC; shit like that has been pulled in the past with both parties. Paul people have been pretty successful at getting alternates this time around, so they'd just be replacing one with the other.

One thing I do believe though- if Romney does get the nomination, it will be done so at a great cost to the GOP and possibly our political system, financial and otherwise.
 
I have very little faith in your electoral system and understand it even less, knowing that ass clowns like Santoum and Romney were even allowed to be considered candidates for any party in the first place.

I sadly have to side with subi on this one.

When no common sense is evident, how can common sense prevail? I hope I am wrong.
 
subigo said:
One that successfully fills seats in the House and Senate.
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So do you have any hope for all of these new Libertarians entering the GOP this year? Think they can change anything?

BTW; you still haven't proven your case though: Every day there is another story like Colorado here where Paul actually gets more delegates than Romney from a state that Romney supposedly did 10 times better in.
 
subigo said:
One that successfully fills seats in the House and Senate.
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That's the biggest problem. I think Ron Paul would get more votes if he just started a new party "The Freedom Party" or some shit. None of his supporters are Republicans anyways so it's not like leaving the party would hurt his votes, plus a lot more democrats and independents would vote for him if his name wasn't attached to the GOP, or the Libertarian Party for that matter. Ron Paul on a clean slate would probably do best, but it's too late for that. He's trying to rebrand the GOP and that name is already too tarnished to fix.
 
Unarmed Gunman said:
That's the biggest problem. I think Ron Paul would get more votes if he just started a new party "The Freedom Party" or some shit. None of his supporters are Republicans anyways so it's not like leaving the party would hurt his votes, plus a lot more democrats and independents would vote for him if his name wasn't attached to the GOP, or the Libertarian Party for that matter. Ron Paul on a clean slate would probably do best, but it's too late for that. He's trying to rebrand the GOP and that name is already too tarnished to fix.
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I was a big supporter of Paul waiting until the convention and then announcing a 3rd Party run if things don't go his way there.... It would solve a lot of problems.

...And create many as well, unfortunately. The net is full of articles like this one that points out the problems with it. I think their main point however is that it would kill the chance to "slowly infiltrate" the GOP, and make it a Libertarian party, which we are on track to doing now if we just keep on keeping on.

I don't want to wait that long though; Obama's second term is an unacceptable concept to me that will literally destroy the republic. Therefore I'm really torn on the 3rd party issue. It still seems to be the only chance to get the establishment without bloodshed... Although it's a TINY chance.
 
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