Assange Is Fucked

[hellblazer]

You still don't get it. He's not the press. He's not American.

A foreigner giving another nation's state secrets to their enemies is called espionage. Jail the fucker.

You useful idiots have all been suckered into supporting a traitor and his foreign accomplice.

Anyone here who doesn't denounce the leaker as a traitor, Assange as a foreign spy, and call for the conviction and imprisonment of both implicitly supports them and their un-American attitudes could be viewed as treason too.

 

[Ar Scion]

The constitution can be amended for this very reason. The idea of the press in the minds of the framers does not correlate to the idea of the press in this day and age. I doubt the framers would legitimize a "media organization" that explicitly solicits illegal acts.

 

[xmcp123]

You still don't get it. He's not the press. He's not American.

I've cited the Supreme Court case twice now. Foreigners get first amendment protection. It's settled law, decided by our Supreme Court and supported by our Constitution. If you don't like it, change it. But pretending that it isn't real is just ridiculous.

We don't prosecute foreign papers any more than we prosecute our own.

A foreigner giving another nation's state secrets to their enemies is called espionage. Jail the fucker.

A foreigner working for a non-profit agency based in Iceland provided sources to the national newsmedia, then (like book publishers did with Pentagon Papers), published the documents. By the way, you can buy the Pentagon Papers on Amazon.com today.

Why aren't you calling for the arrest of the Spiegel.de editors? Or the New York Times editors? Or the Guardian's editors? In reality, they actually published their stories and the documents themselves before the documents were available on Wikileak's site.

You useful idiots have all been suckered into supporting a traitor and his foreign accomplice.

He's not an American so he's not a traitor. And even if he was, he's no more a traitor than the New York Times and Washington Post editors who published classified documents in the past. Or the hundreds of other news paper editors who have worked directly with informants and leaks. Hell, they won the "New Media" award...they're pretty obviously press.
But think about how often stories in the news cite an "an anonymous source" "with firsthand knowledge" or "close to XYZ"...especially in things about foreign policy. Should they be jailed as well? After all, they're working directly with an inside source.

Anyone here who doesn't denounce the leaker as a traitor,

The leaker did commit espionage. I will agree this far.

Assange as a foreign spy, and call for the conviction and imprisonment of both implicitly supports them and their un-American attitudes could be viewed as treason too.

There's nothing more unamerican than attacking the freedom of the press. The free press and free speech is what separates us from countries like the USSR. It's what allows us to hold our government accountable. And you throw it away just because the "press" isn't on your side for once.
You're a hypocrite of the worst kind when you call others unpatriotic or traitors.

 

[hellblazer]

Then just answer this one simple question: What is the difference between what Assange did and if a foreign spy(with inside help) transferred the exact same information to an enemy nation?

What is the difference between what Assange did and if a foreign espionage service sabotaged relations between the U.S. and its allies by stealing(ostensibly Manning) and leaking(Assange) classified docs?

I'll answer it for you: nothing. They simply cloaked it under "freedom of press" to snooker fools like you and expanded the list of recipients to everyone.

Assange is a foreign spy. Jail him for espionage.

 

[xmcp123]

Then just answer this one simple question: What is the difference between what Assange did and if a foreign spy(with inside help) transferred the exact same information to an enemy nation?

What is the difference between what Assange did and if a foreign espionage service wanted to sabotage relations between the U.S. and its allies?

I'll answer it for you: nothing. They simply cloaked it under "freedom of press" to snooker fools like you and expanded the list of recipients to everyone.

Assange is a foreign spy. Jail him for espionage.

Then just answer this one simple question:

You haven't really answered any of mine yet, and I'm still waiting hellblazer. I cited a fair number of points within our legal system that show you as being pretty damn wrong, and you just kind of skip over it.

I've shown that what he did is covered under the freedom of the press, and showed that foreigners get the same 1st amendment rights we do. Both with Supreme Court cases. In this country, with our system of law, that is an overriding factor.

I'll reply after you do. I've responded pretty meticulously to your points already, I'd like to see exactly how full of hot air you are now.

Or could it be that you can't refute anything I've said, so instead default to scripted talking points?

 

[hellblazer]

My question distills everything down to the essence of this debate.

I know why you don't want to answer it.

Headshot.

 

[lukep]

Holy Christ on a Cracker!

These last ten posts or so have officially been the worst online ass kicking I've seen in my entire life. And I've seen quite a few, starting back in the chat rooms of AOL and IRCs.

Congratulations are in order to xmcp123, & no matter if you agree with his viewpoint or not, you must see that he has delivered a most extraordinary ass wooping here today.

(And before you call ME a libtard supporter, look up at post #201 where I last spoke and see that I wasn't arguing for his side at all. But he's convinced me now!)

Is it possible to print and frame a forum thread in a presentable format?

 

[xmcp123]

My question distills everything down to the essence of this debate.

I know why you don't want to answer it.

Headshot.

What is the difference between what Assange did and if a foreign spy(with inside help) transferred the exact same information to an enemy nation?

Foreign spies take our secrets, give it to their governments, and otherwise keep information secret. They were sent and employed by foreign governments to do us harm. They use their knowledge (and the fact that their enemy doesn't know they know) to attack their enemies. Secrecy is just as much a part of their job and function as penetrating their enemy's secrets is. Secrets make their world go round.

The press on the other hand gives information to the people. Everyone has the information, and everyone knows it.
We protect the right to the press, because we believe in the ideals of freedom, and recognize that a democracy cannot function with the government being able to intimidate the press. A press that is scared of the prosecution is a press that cannot inform voters, and uninformed voters who have their opinions shaped by the government is the road to authoritarianism.
That's not to say the government doesn't get to have secrets: it just means that when the cat is out of the bag they aren't allowed to suppress information. They can pursue the person who illegally took the information, but our news is allowed to continue.


Ok. Now your turn. Let's hear it.

I believe you have some actual citable Supreme Court cases or laws that would make him not eligible for 1st amendment protection? I've already cited the ones that allow a foreigner support from the 1st amendment, and protect the ability of the press to publish leaked and confidential documents, even when it harms US interests.

Let's see if you're as full of shit as I think you are. If you can't answer the points I gave earlier about our legal system, I can come up with some totally new points that you also won't be able to refute.

Edit: I'd also like to see you refute my quote from the mother fucking Pentagon that says no one has been killed as a result of these leaks. I'd also like to hear what separates them from the news agencies that have subsisted on leaks for years, and why in this case you advocate going after wikileaks and not the NYtimes/Guardian/El Pais/Spiegel, when technically 2 of that 4 released the documents before wikileaks themselves, and 3 of the 4 are foreign papers.

 

[Rexibit]

Anyone here who doesn't denounce the leaker as a traitor, Assange as a foreign spy, and call for the conviction and imprisonment of both implicitly supports them and their un-American attitudes could be viewed as treason too.

Someone sounds like a communist.

Hellblazer, I've always enjoyed reading your tirades, and honestly would have pegged you as someone who understands the entire idea, goal, and necessity of Wikileaks and would support it.

You are all for less government regulations, yet you want them to censure the press, keep your fellow citizens in the dark about what our government is doing without our knowledge, and convict and put away someone as a traitor for not agreeing with the prior two points.

Come on man, listen to yourself.

You are all about patriotism, yet you spit in the face of the founding fathers, all of which would balk and hang their heads in shame to hear someone talk like you are now.

 

[lukep]

LOL this is awesome, the people who support free press are called communists by those who oppose it. I love this place

Yep, Classic. Although it's easier than you think for it to happen when the person using the term communist is actually, in fact, the communist.

 

[hellblazer]

Foreign spies take our secrets, give it to their governments, and otherwise keep information secret. They were sent and employed by foreign governments to do us harm. They use their knowledge (and the fact that their enemy doesn't know they know) to attack their enemies. Secrecy is just as much a part of their job and function as penetrating their enemy's secrets is.

Secrets make their world go round.

There's no difference. He's a spy.

If you consider the rest of the current world the enemy, he delivered stolen information to the enemy.

That is no different from a spy.

P.S. And can the morons saying I'm a communist actually look up the definition of a communist? Thanks!

 

[xmcp123]

I totally cannot answer a single thing you said. I don't understand how the free press works, or why it's so essential to a democracy.
I claim to be a Patriot, but really have no idea what made this country what it is, or the rights that I'm supposedly enthusiastic about. I may betray the ideas the country was founded on, but I'll do it with a flag flying high so who cares?
I have no respect for the constitution or the rights our forefathers fought and died for.
I only care about brown people dying when it supports my point of view, and they weren't really dying.
I don't understand history very well, and legal documents are hard to read... So I remain stiflingly ignorant on pretty much every point I discussed today.
I believe that it's 100% acceptable to take away someone's freedom even if I cannot refute the idea that what they did was legal.
I hate that Libertarians stand for "freedom" more effectively and in more ways than Neo-conservatives, so I just pretend they're liberal.
I can be confronted with the fact that no deaths or injuries have resulted from the Wikileaks release, but still maintain that they are deadly. Like spies. And other bad things.
I aspire to someday turn the United States into a shadow of the USSR, with no accountability for my omnipotent governmental overlords. I will likely still claim that I like 'small government'.
My version of logic is stating "that's not how it is, there is no difference". Supporting points that you make with actual facts or logic is for libtards and communists.

Does that sum it up hellblazer?
Or are you ready to actually reply to the points I specified in my previous post yet?
:thefinger: :thefinger: :thefinger:

Your evasion is transparent.

 

[Moxxy]

WTF are you talking about? The media isn't allowed to be an accessory to a crime. They're not allowed to publish ANYTHING they want. That's why we have, you know, CONFIDENTIAL documents.

But let me see if I get your retarded liberal apologist thinking straight: some fag inside our government commits treason and steals confidential documents, which is a crime. Another libfag takes those documents, KNOWING they were obtained illegally, but because he's part of the "press", he's well within his legal rights to publish those sensitive documents to the entire world.

Your pathetic excuse of a rationalization for this turd is weak and unimpressive.



Your standard of truth here is that the government isn't "shouting it from the rooftops", ergo it isn't true. Dude, Assange himself ADMITTED his actions in Africa led to hundreds of people dying. Go look it up, you're not worth me getting the link for you. And his latest "leaks" revealed the identities of HUNDREDS of Afghani informants. They'll all be dead within months, if not weeks. If we had a press that wasn't filled with people of your ilk, we'd probably already know exactly how many of them have already been killed.

And his latest "leak"? You think when the U.S. government deems certain sites important to "national security", they say it because it sounds pretty? You'd think even the most brainwashed of communist libtards might get the hint of a thought that perhaps we shouldn't be broadcasting this information to America's enemies. But then again, liberalism is a mental disorder, as you so aptly demonstrate. Up is down, wrong is right, America is the enemy, criminals are heroes, and treason is patriotism.



Good God, do you liberal fags ever get off the "It's all America's fault" script? It's like beating the carcass of a horse that's been dead for years, been picked clean by vultures and rats, with nothing left but the emaciated skeleton, and STILL that's no deterrent.



What this idiot did is make sure nobody trusts us anymore. No embassy will trust us. No informants in Afghanistan will trust us. He isolated America and alienated her. He's not a whistleblower. He's a liberal criminal, could be a rapist, and now his cohorts are committing CRIMES against credit card companies and have already committed crimes against Sarah Palin for speaking out against him.

I was biding my time on this turd, but as always, these cockroaches eventually reveal their true colors. He weakened America, he's praised by liberal idiots like you and half the morons here, he and his friends unequivocally committed crimes, and now he's being lionized by the Communist press. That should tell everyone everything they need to know about this coward.

P.S. Oh yeah, and can all the butthurt libtards save the "I'm not a liberal, I'm a libertarian" bullshit for someone who both cares and believes it? Thanks!

Thankyou HellBlazer, I thoroughly enjoyed not reading this post.

 

[Moxxy]

If you consider the rest of the current world the enemy, he delivered stolen information to the enemy.

Couldn't miss this gem though. Wow! Do you really consider everything outside your borders the enemy?

 

[hellblazer]

Does that sum it up hellblazer?
Or are you ready to actually reply to the points I specified in my previous post yet?
:thefinger: :thefinger: :thefinger:

Your evasion is transparent.

This is essentially your argument:

Foreign espionage does not exist anymore because the spy in question has the legal authority to do it under "freedom of the press".

When confronted by the fact that this clearly legalizes foreign espionage(a blueprint of sorts), you cite Supreme Court cases without denouncing the clear illegality of it.

In other words, once you encounter someone clearheaded enough to realize how ludicrous your argument is, you jump back, throw up your hands, and say "Hey man, it's the Supreme Court saying it, not me!"

Would you have supported the gassing of the Jews if the Supreme Court said it was OK?

I suppose what's so amusing about this is that you know it's a blatant lie, but you faithfully push your talking points. Dedication, man.

inb4 Godwin

 

[jamesc32]

This is essentially your argument:

Foreign espionage does not exist anymore because the spy in question has the legal authority to do it under "freedom of the press".

When confronted by the fact that this clearly legalizes foreign espionage(a blueprint of sorts), you cite Supreme Court cases without denouncing the clear illegality of it.

In other words, once you encounter someone clearheaded enough to realize how ludicrous your argument is, you jump back, throw up your hands, and say "Hey man, it's the Supreme Court saying it, not me!"

Would you have supported the gassing of the Jews if the Supreme Court said it was OK?

I suppose what's so amusing about this is that you know it's a blatant lie, but you faithfully push your talking points. Dedication, man.

inb4 Godwin

U Mad?

Just take your beating like a man and quit while you are ahead.

Making extreme references to the gassing of the Jews doesn't prove your point in the least.

You haven't provided any valid arguments against his, and yet you are still going at this full steam ahead.

Go make monies instead, after all it is more fun than getting your ass handed to you.

 

[hellblazer]

Actually I can't believe I responded to this thread so much. Didn't even realize the troll in progress.

Bravo, my good man, bravo.

 

[cougarclaws]

edit: posted in wrong thread

 

[lukep]

Hellblazer, the Asswhooping you have just received is legendary.

Most of us will be telling our grandchildren about it...

In fact, any moment now, Obama will join in to thank xmcp123 and tell us that he's changing his position now, because he now thinks Assange is a pretty swell guy after reading this thread!

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the medal of freedom is handed out here today...

Do you get it yet? YOU LOST.

VERY, VERY OBVIOUSLY.

What makes this such an "obvious" loss, you ask?

It's because Every point you made, every single little one for many posts in a row, were overturned WITH EVIDENCE.

In fact you showed no evidence, quoted no facts, you just evaded questions and worse, you gave opinion after opinion after opinion mixed together with some kind of talking point checklist from someone's show like O'Reilly or Beck.

Those guys don't deal in evidence or proof. You should do yourself a favor and start parroting scientists instead... That way you can be assured that you don't sound like a complete idiot who can't hold his head up anymore after a forum argument with someone you constantly refer to as a "Libtard."

Failing the scientist thing, you could always look up some cases and statutes yourself...

 

[slawptalker]

man... kinda feel bad. maybe we could pitch in for hellblazer to hire a content writer to handle his next response to xmcp