Anyone else hate not being a programmer?

I'd like to, but honestly I feel spending my time learning how to run a business is a better investment. Programmers can be expensive, but nothing is as expensive or compromising to a business than hiring a CEO because you don't know what you are doing.

How many startups needed to hire a CEO?

How many startups with real CEOs succeeded?

How many startups without CEOs failed?

I would honestly like to know the answer to these questions. Wouldn't a startup only bring in the CEO type if he was also a partner?
 


How many startups needed to hire a CEO?

How many startups with real CEOs succeeded?

How many startups without CEOs failed?

I would honestly like to know the answer to these questions. Wouldn't a startup only bring in the CEO type if he was also a partner?

If you are a business owner and have employees, you take the role of CEO whether you know it or not + many other roles.

I'd rather be a great business man than anything else. Programmers, designers, writers, etc can be hired; they are like cogs; I want to be the machine maker. I've known great programmers who don't understand business; they make really good coin, but they are tied to a 9-5 and it will take them till they are 60 before they can retire.

That said, while I'm no programmer, I do know enough to integrate simple things, modify a line or two of php, I can use photoshop fairly efficiently and I consider myself a not-too terrible copywriter.

But when I need anything serious, I hire someone. And if you know what you are doing, you can generally use other people's time really efficiently and therefore in a very cost-effective manner.
 
I was really into computers back in the 90's when I was just a little kid but was always pushed to play sports. Had a short period of time where I'd play with photoshop, illustrator, 3d studio max, etc. Read a C++ book and made some simple stuff one summer but that's it.

Kind of frustrating that I have to outsource all of my developer work. Nothing stopping me from learning now, but I can't help but wish I would have taken the time when I was younger to learn to program.

Wish I could chug mountain dew and bang out some side projects every weekend. Anyone else feel the same?

Why can't you? I have been coding since I was little and still find myself coding today.
 
If you are a business owner and have employees, you take the role of CEO whether you know it or not + many other roles.

I'd rather be a great business man than anything else. Programmers, designers, writers, etc can be hired; they are like cogs; I want to be the machine maker. I've known great programmers who don't understand business; they make really good coin, but they are tied to a 9-5 and it will take them till they are 60 before they can retire.

That said, while I'm no programmer, I do know enough to integrate simple things, modify a line or two of php, I can use photoshop fairly efficiently and I consider myself a not-too terrible copywriter.

But when I need anything serious, I hire someone. And if you know what you are doing, you can generally use other people's time really efficiently and therefore in a very cost-effective manner.

I'll just say that every Joe Schmoe out there with a business degree (or no degree) think that they hold some great CEOing skills that should easily convince others to skim the profit on top.

In reality, how many CEOs do you know who 'made it' who didn't get practical first in their line of work? I don't think too highly of that clique of CEOs who go around from company to company looking to make 3 month numbers and then run things into the ground.

So what I am saying is, that how do you convince the unflattering 'cogs' to be part of your machine?

That has nothing to do with knowing how to run a business but about being a good leader, they're not the same. A CEO can be both an administrator or a leader or both. A startup has no need for an administrator.

It is when you grow, then yes, but first things first. I do not see the profit margins of making yourself CEO of a knowledge biz if you're going to employ competent local people. Market forces dictate that they will only take the equivalent of their offer cost, which either means you will get less than optimal employees or there will be no money left for you at the top.

Your setup would probably work well if you brought a big pile of money to eastern europe or the philippines, but not in modern economies.

Or am I mistaken here, do you actually run a business with fulltime employees?

I don't by the way and would rather have a couple of partners who could do all the gritty work to begin with.

Or to put in another way, to make your model profitable you have to be able to make each part worth more collectively than is put in. That is easy to do exploiting outsourcing and currency arbitrage, but can you do it locally?
 
I'll just say that every Joe Schmoe out there with a business degree (or no degree) think that they hold some great CEOing skills that should easily convince others to skim the profit on top.

In reality, how many CEOs do you know who 'made it' who didn't get practical first in their line of work? I don't think too highly of that clique of CEOs who go around from company to company looking to make 3 month numbers and then run things into the ground.

So what I am saying is, that how do you convince the unflattering 'cogs' to be part of your machine?

That has nothing to do with knowing how to run a business but about being a good leader, they're not the same. A CEO can be both an administrator or a leader or both. A startup has no need for an administrator.

It is when you grow, then yes, but first things first. I do not see the profit margins of making yourself CEO of a knowledge biz if you're going to employ competent local people. Market forces dictate that they will only take the equivalent of their offer cost, which either means you will get less than optimal employees or there will be no money left for you at the top.

Your setup would probably work well if you brought a big pile of money to eastern europe or the philippines, but not in modern economies.

Or am I mistaken here, do you actually run a business with fulltime employees?

I don't by the way and would rather have a couple of partners who could do all the gritty work to begin with.

Or to put in another way, to make your model profitable you have to be able to make each part worth more collectively than is put in. That is easy to do exploiting outsourcing and currency arbitrage, but can you do it locally?

I used to have employees. I've changed my business, and don't have any right now, but I hope to.

I guess I might not have used the acronym "CEO' well. What I meant was; I'd rather develop a business model, processes, standards, procedures, delimit roles and so forth. Be an entrepreneur of a highly scalable business.

Basically, what is outlined in the e-myth revised, although there are many great books that compliment the ideas outlined there.

I'm not talking about education, I'm talking hands on experience.
 
Learning the basics is a good investment. Enough to know when you are looking at a shitty coder's work. If you don't love it you can leave it at that level. As with any skill there comes a time when you hit a level of mastery that is acceptable to your purposes, continuing is optional and has a decreased ROI unless you are going to specialize and/or you just love it. I'm a language nut and my formula has been that if I hit it hard I can get to an acceptable level of fluency in a year, let's say 85% while that last 15% may take 5 more years... it's subtle shit that only comes with practice, consistent exposure to native speakers and time itself. After the year you decide whether you really need that last 15%.
 
Coding..lol.

1. Buy domain
2. Install Wordpress
3. Tweak premium WP theme
4. ????
5. Profit.
 
Coders don't like to hear this, but coding is basically a commodity now, and a fairly low-value one for most IM work. I never learned a bit of coding (unless you count BASIC, which I probably know 10 commands in), and I can honestly say its never held me back from building some pretty large online businesses. Would it be nice at times if I knew a lick of php or java so I could fix some mundane little thing without waiting for a team member or outsourced 3rd-worlder to do it for me? Sure, but it'd be "nice" to speak fluent Hungarian too, that doesn't mean it is worth the time involved vs what I'd get out of it. If your business isn't completely dependent on knowing the intricacies of the source code, or you dont just love doing it, your time is better spent working on other strengths you have vs spending all that effort to become no better than a outsourced Odesker working for pocket change.

Before the coding crowd comes after me with pitchforks, realize that I do think there is serious value in top-level coding, in terms of architecture and true "development", but the actual mundane act of typing out actual programming code is something that can be done quite cheaply, and just as effectively, by someone with 10 years of experience making $6 an hour. If you like to code, great, but viewing it as any type of necessity to be successful in IM is inaccurate. It's something that can be easily outsourced for pennies on the dollars in time you would have to invest to develop yourself into anything more than a rudimentary coder, who often end up creating more work for themselves then if they never knew a bit of coding.
 
Completely opposite for me. Used to program every thing myself. I like programming, but know even if i can do it my self - i try to outsource.
It still great advantage to know programming, cause i know what and where should be outsourced, and and how to do everything in optimized way.
Ideas can't be purchased, programming skills can.
 
Coders don't like to hear this, but coding is basically a commodity now, and a fairly low-value one for most IM work. I never learned a bit of coding (unless you count BASIC, which I probably know 10 commands in), and I can honestly say its never held me back from building some pretty large online businesses. Would it be nice at times if I knew a lick of php or java so I could fix some mundane little thing without waiting for a team member or outsourced 3rd-worlder to do it for me? Sure, but it'd be "nice" to speak fluent Hungarian too, that doesn't mean it is worth the time involved vs what I'd get out of it. If your business isn't completely dependent on knowing the intricacies of the source code, or you dont just love doing it, your time is better spent working on other strengths you have vs spending all that effort to become no better than a outsourced Odesker working for pocket change.

Before the coding crowd comes after me with pitchforks, realize that I do think there is serious value in top-level coding, in terms of architecture and true "development", but the actual mundane act of typing out actual programming code is something that can be done quite cheaply, and just as effectively, by someone with 10 years of experience making $6 an hour. If you like to code, great, but viewing it as any type of necessity to be successful in IM is inaccurate. It's something that can be easily outsourced for pennies on the dollars in time you would have to invest to develop yourself into anything more than a rudimentary coder, who often end up creating more work for themselves then if they never knew a bit of coding.

I'm not so sure I agree with this. The average programmer makes a lot more money than the average marketer, which should say something about the difficulty of both jobs.

I think there is a little bit of a bias here because most of the coding in internet marketing is spent developing really really simple products. You make it seem like the "top-level coder" is the exception, when generally (and especially outside of the relatively small internet marketing industry) it is the other way around.

Being a developer certainly isn't necessary to being successful in IM, but neither is being a lawyer. But they are both competitive advantages - and in general a good programmer won't be doing pure internet marketing stuff because they can go into a businesses with a high technical barrier to entry.
 
Ideas can't be purchased, programming skills can.

Gif Caption - When you agree (but not really)

I-see.gif



But when you share your ideas with coder to code it then you will realise that after few months
he copied your ideas and using it for himself ... (Facebook, Napster and many other products are result of it)

So for that reason I think you should know which part to outsource and which part to hide and that can
be possible if you know coding.

If you know coding than you know what can be done and how it can be executed or outsourced. So
this give some kind of reality to your imagination as well and show you the path ... you can talk with other coder
with the equality (otherwise you can be dumb like non coder - me)

So Yes, I am also planning to learn coding ... but confuse with tonnes of questions and do not
know where to start as I want to do lot of things ... appreciate if someone help

Disclaimer - Above thoughts are of a non coder (so accept it with similar magnitude)
 
I do think there is serious value in top-level coding, in terms of architecture and true "development", but the actual mundane act of typing out actual programming code is something that can be done quite cheaply, and just as effectively, by someone with 10 years of experience making $6 an hour.

You still need a decent software architect/developer/engineer writing the design and scope to create a system that meets requirements so those 'programmers' just have to type out code. Don't expect to get a decent result for anything complex from someone who can only write code. That's why many outsourced projects to the cheapest code monkey fail : lack of planning and specification by the project owner and lack of common sense from the programmer.

It's much like graphics design really, a heap of wannabes fighting over derivative generic rot while the skilled and creative are working for big dollars with real clients.
 
I'm not so sure I agree with this. The average programmer makes a lot more money than the average marketer, which should say something about the difficulty of both jobs.

On average what do they make?

The one thing a marketer has a greater ability to do that a programmer does not is multiply his income. That's salesmanship multiplied, that's conventional marketing knowledge, we all know. The disadvantage a programmer has is not being able to think like a marketer who has much more freedom to multiply his bottom line. Siding with mont on this one and not because I want his silver coins either.