Any Childfree by Choice Here?
- Thread starter dangregory
- Start date
By far the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I understand some of you hate children, but try to pull yourselves back from the brink before looking truly stupid.
Giving life to another sentient being is a supremely generous act when done under the correct circumstances.
I don't see you calling your parents up and castigating them for selfishly keeping you alive instead of aborting you. If you truly believed that what they did was a morally evil act, you would rectify it immediately by walking off the nearest bridge.
Some of you fuckers need to get outside and get some fresh air, including the OP, who sounds one or two steps away from clinical psychosis.
A case can be made that having children with somebody you love forces you to live for others, which is about as selfless as it gets.
And that conversely, growing old alone causes you to become more selfish, as the only person you have to care for is yourself. It would certainly explain some of the bizarre festering bitterness among the "child-hating" crowd here.
Hyperbole is fun!
Who are you referring to?
Are you saying that I hate children (it's a reasonable question since you quoted me in your post)? If so, please quote where I said I hate children. Indeed, I've implied something very different: kids are fine; their parents are often the problem.
Why on earth would I castigate my parents? I happen to think my parents are awesome.
Having said that, the three of us have had fun conversations regarding the selfishness of having children. Looking back, they agree.
So, I'm not sure where you're going with the above assumption. Something tells me you don't where you're going with it, either.
Please quote where I've said that having a child is a morally evil act. I said it was selfish. Not morally evil.
Are you equating selfishness with immorality?
I bought a coffee instead of sending the $2.45 to the Red Cross. I did it because I'm selfish. Did I commit a "morally evil act?"
I put gas in my car instead of giving the money to the single mom who lives several houses down from me. I did it because I'm selfish. Did I commit a "morally evil act?"
If you cannot quote where I've said that having a child is a morally evil act, be a man and own up to it.
You sound like a very reasonable person.
GimpSpack already touched upon this. Did you not read his post? If you did, did you not understand what he was implying?
That might be true. It depends on the circumstances. Consider Mother Teresa. Also consider that there's nothing inherently wrong with selfishness.
It seems like you're ignoring the nuances of this discussion. That's fine. Do whatever works for you. But to do so, and then tell me to "pull myself back from the brink before looking truly stupid" is laughable.
jriddick, I'll let you have the last say on this matter. Call me names, proclaim that I've said yet more things that I haven't actually said, and do it without apologizing for your gaffes above.
You have the floor. Carte blanche, as it were. I'll read your reply, but won't respond to it. Frankly, given your approach, I don't think you and I are cut out to enjoy conversation together.
Profound response. And it's in response to the most salient part of my post too. How interesting.
You did those things because you acted out of rational self interest.
There's a difference between doing things out of self interest and doing things out of selfishness. Methinks you do not understand the distinction.
Of course there is. It's why Gimpsmack said it with such derision, it's why you agreed with it, it's why others responded with disgust, and it's why Gimpsmack made a distinction between having them(evil & selfish) and raising them(good & noble). There was a clear negative connotation to the statement. Or I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with "delusion" either, eh?
If there's nothing inherently wrong with selfishness, then what's the point of even making the post? That people do things out of self-interest?
No shit Sherlock, it's kind of the entire basis of economics. People act out of rational self-interest.
But Gimpsmack's statement isn't even accurate.
Within the correct framework and with full knowledge of what the responsibility would entail, having children is actually one of the most selfless acts a human being can commit.
Thanks, but I really couldn't give a fuck less.
Not sure where you are, but if you have access to traditional-minded, feminine latinas they might be worth giving a shot.
My argument against having children has nothing to do with hating them. Quite the opposite, it comes from a place of empathy. I like kids a lot, and they typically like me.
How so? How is conceiving someone generous to a previously nonexistent human?
If it were possible to communicate with a child's soul before you conceived him/her and get his/her consent first, your statement would make sense.
But it isnt.
I don't have time to read this whole thread but all I'll say is don't go having a vasectomy before you're 35ish. Neither me nor my wife wanted kids and we've been together for 24 years now. We were happy with our two dogs.
Then at around 35 something just clicked in us (call it the biological clock if you will). Suddenly the thought of kids became quite appealing and it got stronger and stronger. Before we knew it it was our main focus. Thankfully I'm now 41 and have two wonderful kids (1 and 4yrs) who enrich our lives more than anything else could possibly do. I'd rather have my kids than a trillion dollars. Oh, and I did the gentleman thing and got a vasectomy which is no hassle compared with what the women go through with childbirth.
Point is, just because your 25 don't think you will never want kids. Things change and sometimes you can't stop change.
Then at around 35 something just clicked in us (call it the biological clock if you will). Suddenly the thought of kids became quite appealing and it got stronger and stronger. Before we knew it it was our main focus. Thankfully I'm now 41 and have two wonderful kids (1 and 4yrs) who enrich our lives more than anything else could possibly do. I'd rather have my kids than a trillion dollars. Oh, and I did the gentleman thing and got a vasectomy which is no hassle compared with what the women go through with childbirth.
Point is, just because your 25 don't think you will never want kids. Things change and sometimes you can't stop change.
Just noticed 1999 posts. Won't post again until I've made it to baller status (or close enough), so I can get into Enlightened forum.
My experience with traditional-minded, feminine latinas is limited. I've spent time with a few latinas, but none of them were traditional-minded.
The only woman I know who fits that bill is indeed a fine woman. She immigrated in her 20s and is now close to retirement age. She's sincere, loyal to her family, a great conversationalist, and a great mom. She's also sharp and hard-working, having built a successful business.
Frankly, I can't tell if those traits stem from her age, her ethnicity, or the fact that she had to start from scratch after immigrating to the U.S.
In my experience, traditional Korean moms are pretty good too.
Aren't we all trying to make the best out of our live situations? I don't know many people whose lives are perfect. And this is applicable to not just having babies but also to where we are at financially, emotionally, or spiritually.
But I wouldn't call it Stockholm Syndrome. That's a bit much.
I'm going to channel my best Rustin Cohle...
"It's all one ghetto, man"
The birth rate for a replacement population is 2.1 births per woman. Immigration can make up some of that difference also. But in general it's not clear cut to call having children a "selfish" behavior. Sure there's a drain on resources, but you must also account for the contribution to society for every individual born. Some people are leeches, some people are contributors, some are world changers.