Any Childfree by Choice Here?

[dangregory]

Always find this so sad, that guys who really don't want kids aren't really "allowed" by their circle of womenfolk to even DARE to express that fact. So they get "oopsed" into having a kid they neither want nor can afford, but are pressured to grow to "love."

This isn't a "kids are evil" thread.

This is a genuine question. How many guys here are childfree by choice?

How many WOULD have remained childfree but their fuck buddy/girlfriend/wife oopsed them and they got pregnant despite their wishes?

How many used lax birth control (no condom, no vasectomy) and then were shocked when a kid turned up?

Men really need to get more verbal about if they dont' want kids, they don't have to have them; and this doesn't mean you're a shitty person, either.

Most of the childfree by choice guys I know are real heroes; they work as EMT's, rescuing other people's kids all the time; they're military; they're social workers; they're in some way trying to make the world a better place, so that FUTURE kids don't have such a fucked up future. But they get a world of shit from their shared circle of womenfolk who lose their minds when a guy says he doesn't want children.

I have a vasectomy (easy fucking operation; don't be scared about it) and my wife had her tubes tied; we are fucking hardcore childfree by choice.

And we're both on the same page; if my vasectomy failed or her tubal ligation failed (which does happen sometimes) we live in a state where abortion is easily available.

Where do you stand? If you don't want kids, how much pressure do you feel that you HAVE to want kids at some point, you're being "immature" otherwise, you'll "regret" it otherwise?

ANd also, if you were pressured into having kids you didn't want, feel free to vent; I figure we could inspire some more conscious condom usage at the least, where you tell your horror stories about the child support you're paying, how you're forced to remain linked to the woman who had the kid you didn't want, etc.

And if you think kids are so important and wonderful, save me your silly rants; this is a thread for people who don't want kids and who feel social pressure to deny their desires. Because, what? The world needs more people (at seven billion and nine billion by 2050)....or your fucking DNA is so special? Really?

 

[productionhead]

 

[bodiddley]

Who the fuck wants to have kids with the world in a downward spiral?

And if you're easily pressured to have kids, you need to grow some balls and start thinking for yourself.

 

[greenleaves]

Silly OP, no one gets pregnant from the mouth or ass, so we have nothing to worry about here.

 

[dangregory]

Who the fuck wants to have kids with the world in a downward spiral?

And if you're easily pressured to have kids, you need to grow some balls and start thinking for yourself.

Unfortunately, thinking for yourself isn't enough if you want to remain childfree by choice, especially if you are male.

Within my own extended social circle (family, acquaintances, neighbors, my wife's friends/family/etc, my own business associates) I see so many men still going "Oh well, a kid showed up, we couldn't really help it."

And I'm going, "Can you afford the 200,000$ or so after tax money to raise that kid? Can you even stand the mom? And that's just raising the kid to 18, doesn't include college money, etc."

And the guys are all, "I thought she was using the pill but it didn't work" (news flash; that's mostly bullshit as Pill failures are VERY rare and most of this shit is a woman deciding she's dated you long enough or been married to you long enough and it's time for you to crank out some kids, even without warning you about it.)

Getting a vasectomy can seem drastic and you shouldn't tell ANY women in your family (sisters, mom, etc) because they will lose their fucking shit.

But if you can find the right partner, who GETS it, and even better, if she's another self-made business owner who understands MONEY, she will be behind you 100% and will also get her tubes tied when she can.

The problem is that even here in the "liberated" US it can be hard to find docs who will perform vasectomies or tubal ligations on people younger than 40; this is because they are too often sued by people who later "change their minds," which is fucking stupid.

YOu either want kids or not.

And even if you do change your mind someday, there are SO many unwanted kids desperate for adoption right now in the world of foster care and social services; good kids, too; not just the freaks you read about. Know several people who work in that world who are heartbroken every day from seeing all the really good kids who can't find parents to adopt them and are shuttled from foster care family to foster care family, so sad.

If you want to help a kid, for reals, it doesn't have to have your DNA.

 

[dangregory]

Silly OP, no one gets pregnant from the mouth or ass, so we have nothing to worry about here.

Um, yeah they do. I have a close friend whose parents got pregnant and had her because of pre-cum and who openly complained to her about it! Because truly, they didn't want her and were just teenage fuck buddies having some fun when SHIT....a kid resulted.

There's also sperm in pre-cum, and that shit can float around to various unintended locations.

Unless, of course, you're a gay webmaster; then I get your point.

 

[shindig]

Fuck yeah I don't want kids. I have nieces and nephews and dogs, that's plenty.

I remember at the girlfriend's family(girlfriend for 10 years) we were talking about it and they were mystified that we didn't want kids. I said maybe I'd adopt some brown kid that's potty trained, give them a chance in life, and her family was even more baffled.

 

[Cut]

I'll share my experience on this topic.

I was 20 years old when I got my GF of 3 months pregnant. When I found out I remember waking up like my life was a nightmare. I was pretty unprepared not financially speaking since AM can give you good income regardless of age. But from more a mental standpoint. I always have wanted to have kids. The age that I wanted to start having kids was 25. That didn't happen, it's a pretty well known fact that sex leads to pregnancy. Saying that you are surprised when you have sex and a child comes is pretty much bullshit.

I broke up with said GF a month after she gave birth to our son. I supported her 100% while she was pregnant. I knew that it would be better to spilt up early then just hang on because that's what society tells you to do. What do you know she got married to two different guys before my child turned 3. I gave her about $1,000 a month for 3 1/2 years.

Well about 8 months ago she wanted to move away with her new military husband to a different state. So she petitioned the courts to relocate. I hired a lawyer and went to court. The judge refused her relocation. A couple months later we went to mediation. To my surprise she wanted to leave without our son. So I have him about 100% of the time. She didn't want to pay me any child support or any support what so ever. I'm like fuck I don't want your money.

The point of my story is that my child was an "accident." But he is absolutely the best thing in my life. He is my legacy, someone who I'm trying to shape into a highly functioning member of society. Raising children is without a doubt one the hardest things you can do. Patience is the number one thing you have to deal with.

If you don't want kids, then don't have kids. Take every precaution to avoid having one. For me I can't imagine being child-free, being 40+ with no one besides a spouse to have an immediate family with. Sounds lonely to me. But I can see why people don't want kids. I can respect that. Everyone has different objectives in life.

 

[dangregory]

I'll share my experience on this topic.

I was 20 years old when I got my GF of 3 months pregnant.

If you don't want kids, then don't have kids. Take every precaution to avoid having one. For me I can't imagine being child-free, being 40+ with no one besides a spouse to have an immediate family with. Sounds lonely to me. But I can see why people don't want kids. I can respect that. Everyone has different objectives in life.

There's a clinical term for what you've experienced: Stockholm Syndrome.

You learn to love the being who has imprisoned you, because you really have no other fucking choice.

Let's not call it anything else. It's an adaptive behavior brought on by extreme trauma and your life being totally out of your control, and you've mentally and emotionally navigated to a place where you are making the best of it -- and truly trying to be emotionally, spiritually, and financially present for your unwanted child. Kudos to you, I guess?

But why didn't you use condoms, spermicide, and other backup measures besides her being on the Pill (or not?)

See, everybody wants an orgasm inside a moist and warm vagina; but NOBODY ACTUALLY WANTS A KID.

We just need to get real with ourselves about this, and that would help human society a lot. By EXTREMELY conservative surveys, about 70% of kids conceived today in the US are ACCIDENTS.

Can't we be, I dunno, just a tiny bit more conscious about this whole bringing kids into the world thing? And realize how fucking fertile most of us are, and our women/ladyfriends are, so if we DON'T want kids, we can prevent or delay that from happening?

Anyway, I think most of us do NOT appreciate how fertile we are and what risks we run every time we "date" or "hang out" or whatever. A 20 year old should not be having kids in today's society, period, IMO. Sucks that that happened, but I guess, good for you for trying to be there for the kid.

A lot of women also are guilty of casually fucking and bragging about being "single moms" when the dads get screwed post-birth every which way to Sunday with child support, disruption to their lives, etc; and most of them thought the woman was on birth control.

Zip it up, dudes; or get cut; unless you REALLY want and can afford kids. Don't fall for the mind control out there; the tribal mindset is extremely casual, even in this day an age post Roe v Wade and the Pill coming in, about pregnancy, and I'm tired of hearing my friends bitch to me over their beers about all the kids they have by various baby mommas that they can't afford, don't want, don't care about, etc. No kid deserves that, the complete indifference, cluelessness, etc.

 

[dangregory]

I'll share my experience on this topic.

For me I can't imagine being child-free, being 40+ with no one besides a spouse to have an immediate family with. Sounds lonely to me. But I can see why people don't want kids. I can respect that. Everyone has different objectives in life.

And just so you know, there are a lot of assumptions here about what it means to be intimate and loving with someone, and what constitutes a real "family."

Many of us (childfree by choice) do not consider only the byproducts of our DNA to be "family" and thereby worthy of our time, attention, friendship, intimacy, or love.

Just wanted to point that out as it's a common preconception many people have -- that a kid is somehow going to provide this incredible joy ride of legitimacy and warmth and friendship when, for most people, their kids will move hundreds of miles away from them and let them fucking ROT in a nursing home for decades, so much for "love!"

(Have you ever worked or spent time in an assisted care facility or nursing home in the US? Talk about a reality check; that will disabuse you of your notion of "family' pretty fucking quick. Most of the oldsters there will complain to anybody who visits regularly about how they haven't seen their own kids or grandkids in ages; so don't count on your kids to be looking after you when you get old or giving a shit about you. Build LASTING FRIENDSHIPS with REALLY AWARE AND LOVING PEOPLE; and dont' count on your kids to conform to that category just because they share DNA; they might, but they are far more likely NOT TO. Ask any nursing aid, nursing home staffer, elder care physician, etc. Don't rely on me; check this stuff out yourself. YOU WILL BE LONELY as you get older unless you build social structures in place that DO NOT rely upon your kids.)

 

[Vadym]

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

You learn to love the being who has imprisoned you, because you really have no other fucking choice.

Let's not call it anything else. It's an adaptive behavior brought on by extreme trauma and your life being totally out of your control, and you've mentally and emotionally navigated to a place where you are making the best of it -- and truly trying to be emotionally, spiritually, and financially present for your unwanted child. Kudos to you, I guess?

What the hell are you babbling on about? You do realize you just told this guy the only reason he loves his own kid is because he was forced to adapt due to suffering trauma, right? What a horrible thing to say.

 

[dangregory]

What the hell are you babbling on about? You do realize you just told this guy the only reason he loves his own kid is because he was forced to adapt due to suffering trauma, right? What a horrible thing to say.

Your point? Sometimes, the truth hurts. And men who lie to each other about the truth are fucking shitheads.

 

[Cut]

Stockholm Syndrome seriously? I understand you don't want to ever have kids and that's cool. I myself have always wanted kids. In fact I want 3 or 4 more, but that's me. Trying to explain what having a child is like it trying to tell a blind person what seeing is like. You can't fucking do it. You can explain the basic concepts of it but you will never be able to fully describe it in detail what it's like.

I agree guys do get "FUCKED" in terms of child support. If you are paying 25% child support then 25% in taxes. Oh you live in a state where you have state taxes another 10%. So that guy is left with 40%. I get it, I paid child support. Sucks even worse when you make a high income.

On the other side the child has to be supported. If a father is uninvolved the mother has all the responsibilities of raising that child. So she needs some sort of money from the father to help pay for things. So the tax payers are left to care for the child. I'd rather the father take the responsibility to pay then me fucking pay out of taxes. Of course you are going to have welfare cases across the board. The less the better though.

 

[dreamache]

Most of the childfree by choice guys I know are real heroes; they work as EMT's, rescuing other people's kids all the time;they're military; they're social workers; they're in some way trying to make the world a better place

And if you think kids are so important and wonderful, save me your silly rants;

Were you neglected as a child? Just curious.

 

[dangregory]

So there's this cousin-in-law of mine....I guess that's what you call a cousin of your wife's? Anyhoo, he got into Drexel, major geek genius type only without many social skills (surprise surprise). First girl he met in his life who would agree to fuck him is a Korean immigrant, freshly-off the boat, gorgeous, brilliant, thinks that he comes from money just because his poor as shit parents put all their money into sending him to a private school instead of regular high school

Fast forward. It's six months into his freshman year, he's fucking her, everything is great; except she thinks he has money so doesn't REALLY take the pill when she promised she was taking it; gets pregnant.

Fast forward; kid comes; quickie marriage.

A bit into the marriage, turns out the kid is majorly fucked up. Some messed up combo of Downs but also some other stuff, not just normal Downs.

By the age of six this poor girl is operating at the level of a ten month old cognitively, physically; can't walk, talk, function; etc.

The parents try to be there for the kid but since they can't face the fact that this kid really needs round the clock professional and developmental care, they attempt to care for her at home in shifts (because the stress of all of this broke them up as a couple long ago.)

various family members attempt to intervene, help out, or at least get the poor kid into a private clinic or situation where she can be properly assessed/looked after.

Guess what? Neither of the parents could face the fact that this was an unfortunate byproduct of a fuck buddy freshman college "relationship" that should ahve never resulted in marriage; neither had any money; they hated each other so much at that point that they couldn't see past their collective shit to actually CARE for their majorly disabled daughter.

Fast forward; the mother of the kid marriage a "rich" laundromat owner who first kept her as his mistress, then later found out about her severely disabled kid, now the kid is only just BARELY looked after by anybody and is still at the level of a five year old and she is almost 16 years old. No extended family has even been permitted to see the kid much less send money/help out.

The father of the kid dropped out of college ages ago; lives with his elderly and disabled mother; works on and off at various gas stations pumping gas.

ALL THE BYPRODUCT OF A RANDOM FRESHMAN COLLEGE FUCK with a hot gal he thought was using rigorous birth control (although he never bothered with a condom, so he was pretty clueless, too.)

A severely disabled daughter was brought in on his sperm. And that girl is FUCKED.

Just want to mention that: not all the fairy tale stories of "I accidentally got a girl pregnant at 20 but it all worked out for the best and I love my kid and everything is fine" stories work out that way.

AGAIN, moral of the story is, if you don't want a kid, be EXTREMELY CAREFUL, 'kay?

 

[Vadym]

Next time I come to America - I'm going to bang a bunch of chicks in New Jersey. So that when I leave, Dan's taxes have to pay for the offspring.

Lulzitakeyousrslyforsrs.

 

[dangregory]

So two weeks ago I'm out with my bros...some I work with or have worked with...others neighbor/acquaintance types...all of them nice dudes.

All but one in their 30's to early 40's.

All but two (me and one other guy) have kid(s).

Six of us in all. Hanging at our favorite microbrewery.

Two of them bragging about the bitches they're fucking on the side; both of them married at least five to seven years; both have multiple kids that they don't want.

One of them is a wealthy CEO type; hires the women he wants, discards them when he doesn't want them; if they get pregnant, he pays for their abortions. He's pretty famous in his industry so gets them to sign non-disclosures before they even fuck, and everything seems to run very smoothly in his life. He favors eastern European model types, gorgeous as shit.

One of them is an Italian Catholic who ended up with FIVE kids before he turned 30; he's the heaviest drinker among all of us and the one we're all seriously worried about because he often expresses what could be considered suicidal intentions. (We have put a buddy system in place to try to prevent the worst from happening, but you never know.)

The other guy without kids is a little like me; mostly self-employed throughout his career as a consultant type, now moved into having his own business; managed to hold on throughout this shitty economy. Great guy. He has confessed to me almost like it's a dark secret that he doesn't want kids and his wife doesn't want kids; and I'm like, "Dude, you and your lady have volunteered on suicide hotlines, worked at soup kitchens, are the salt of the earth; dont' have a fucking guilt trip just because you dont' want kids; you've done so much for this planet already!"

And yeah, I guess we childfree by choice are the evil rat bastards. Keep drinking that poison cocktail; it's yummy! And it will only cost you $200,000 or more after taxes til each child is 18 and a lot more thereafter if you're bothering to buy the kid a car, a college education, or paying alimony; HAVE FUN WITH THAT BROS!

PS And no, not the byproduct of a broken home. Had two classic 1950's type parents; mom stay at home and miserable but very self-sacrificing and sweet and loving; dad worked his ass off and couldn't afford me and my sister, even though nobody ever said so, as it wasn't polite. BUT I FUCKING HAD EYES AND EARS AND COULD SEE THE SHITTTY LIVES THEY HAD BECAUSE THEY HAD KIDS THEY COULDN'T AFFORD. Blame me for my awareness, that's okay!

 

[dreamache]

Could you give us more stories to help justify your decision to not have children? It's riveting stuff.

 

[dangregory]

Could you give us more stories to help justify your decision to not have children? It's riveting stuff.

SNORT! (Falls for troll bait)

I was always childfree by choice, from a very young age -- at least four or five years old.

Any other anecdotes I'm sharing are merely informed by being an observer and outlier type over the years who has always looked out at society and tribal mind control and gone, "What the fuck?" This has also involved me being an atheist and seeing the bullshit within all the world's religions, not choosing a political party because none of them are sensible, and other points of view.

So, no real STORIES. I'm afraid that if you hang out with any hardcore childfree by choice folks that most of us are in "helping humanity" type professions; healthcare, surgeons, child welfare workers, teachers, coaches, ministers, EMT's, military; etc. So people always try to paint us as anti-human, anti-love, and it couldn't be farther from the truth. Most of us are actually DEEPLY invested in "trying to make the world a better place" so that tomorrow's children can experience a better quality of life; yet we also see the completely fucked up stuff going on now, especially how men and women are being manipulated against each other with the porn culture and so on; and it would be nice if all of us could just, you know, be conscious of what we're doing, be loving with one another; and maybe NOT fuck somebody mindlessly just because she looks like Scarlett Johannsen and has big tits and actually THINK ABOUT WHETHER YOU WANT TO HAVE A KID WITH HER..........not that much to ask, really? Yet we're constantly vilified as a societal group.

Gays are ostracized (except here on the gay webmaster forum.)

Atheists come next.

Childfree by choice are next.

And nobody ever speaks out in this group, which I find really fucking sad; especially since I can count on one hand the amount of men I've ever known who truly wanted to have children; and then there are loads of other poor fucks who just had to deal with Stockholm Syndrome and not feeling like they could articulate to the women they'd fucked that they REALLY didn't want kids, even if birth control failed and it was just an accident. And I find that fascinating in a post-Roe v. Wade reality; where are we living these days? 1920? Because whether you're liberal or conservative, that seems where the majority of folks are stuck these days when it comes to child stuff.