Why would anyone on this forum be a democrat??

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popeye

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Jun 12, 2007
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Obama has stated that anyone that makes over 100k will recieve a massive tax increase. How can any successfull IM support this?? That is unless you are a poser/wannabe.

Any successful business person will vote for anyone agaisnt the party of entitelment.
SAY NO TO TAKING YOUR MONEY AND GIVING IT TO THOSE THAT DON'T WANT TO WORK!!!!!
 


Obama has stated that anyone that makes over 100k will recieve a massive tax increase. How can any successfull IM support this?? That is unless you are a poser/wannabe.

Any successful business person will vote for anyone agaisnt the party of entitelment.
SAY NO TO TAKING YOUR MONEY AND GIVING IT TO THOSE THAT DON'T WANT TO WORK!!!!!
Several reasons.
  1. My Expenses are as Follows: Cigarettes, Food, Rent, a modest amount of inebriants, Red Bull. I don't really need as much as I make
  2. It's insane that people in this country are starving. I can understand not wanting them rollin Cadillacs on 22s or what the fuck ever, but they should get to eat.
  3. I have lived in some really nasty areas between high school and college. The people there were not lazy. In many cases they were uneducated, but rarely lazy. Some couldn't get transportation to a job as well. Welcome to Detroit btw, where our gangsters are too poor to buy bullets because there's no work.
  4. Minimum wage is not even near what's necessary to live on, even working 50+ hour weeks. Those people work MUCH harder than me. Not smarter, but harder. Oh yeah, and they have to put on pants. I don't.
  5. I refuse to punish someone's children because their mother is a lazy and/or stupid.
  6. People with money buy shit. They sometimes buy my shit.
If you honestly believe most people on welfare or whatever are "not working", and not working by choice, you're an ignorant prick and need to get the hell out of your basement.
 
xmcp123 - a wise man once said that anyone under 25 with a heart is a liberal. Anyone over 30 with a brain is a conservative. If I understand it correctly you are in college and a good guy so you are justified in your beliefs. I on the other hand am over 30 and would like the government to keep there hands off the money I make.
In all your arguments you have not answered 1 question - (asked in 3 parts LOL) how or why is it my responsibility to take care of someone else? Were was that written into our constitution? When did we become socialists? The reason we are the super power is the system we live by. With all our faults it is still better than what else is out there.
 
I vote taxes ... PERIOD

That means I can never vote democrat, which is fine because I believe in taking responsibility for myself and my family, small government, states rights and am anti-war. Basically get the gov't out of my ass so I can make this country a better place. Now I must say, fighting a war overseas will cause our taxes to stay high even if we get McCain. So this election (like the last few) there really isn't a good candidate. Viva La Ron Paul!

XMCP, I'm very surprised to hear you say that. I've agreed with about everything else you've ever typed. Uhhh, I feel bad for the kids that grow up in the ghetto and all but this country is divided into 2 classes that do ok ... Rich and Poor. I'm all for giving the middle class all the breaks that we give the inner city population. I've got family and friends that work their ass off with a college degree and can't afford insurance and are still living off ramon noodles. On the other hand, I've got family on the wife's side pumping out kids living in section 8 (decent houses) and getting SSI checks, food stamps and free insurance ... all without working. Where's the fairness in that?

I'm personally for restitution for the descendants of slaves, but it's only in the form of education vouchers. Teach a brother how to fish, don't fucking feed them fish sticks their entire life and wonder why their still asking for a handout. Giving poverty stricken families money is just suppressing them for generations to come because there is no motivation or education pushing them to do better.

I'm also for population control (which helps the problem of welfare). If you are on state provided insurance, you're tubes get tied after your 1st child ... this is mandantory. I personally feel you should pay MORE taxes for each child you bring into the world, not get tax breaks. So if you can afford more kids because you earn decent money AND CAN PROVIDE FOR ALL OF THEM .. go for it. If I'm going to pay for your kids through my taxes ... fuck you, tie the tubes.
 
Read this:
» U.S. Government –> We’ve come so far! Independent 08: The Politics The Presidential 2008 Campaign The Reality Show

Then tell me if you think you should still have taxes go towards welfare, or any other social program.

Then go listen to some Ron Paul - while he may not win the primary (read: won't) if enough people wake the hell up some things might slowly start changing before it's too late for my kids. (That I support by myself with no help from the state - dammit I just sent in checks for lunch and everything).
 
After what a wonderful job the Republicans have done - how could you want to keep them in power? This country is far worse shape than it was 8 years ago. Nobody can deny that. Why would you want more of the same?

I'm not an Obama or Hillary supporter, but I'm thinking they couldn't fuck things up as bad as Bush has.

BTW, I like how you say the democrats are gonna tax the shit out of you. You pay more in taxes under Bush than you did under Clinton...

As P.E. once said - Don't Believe The Hype!
 
xmcp123 - a wise man once said that anyone under 25 with a heart is a liberal. Anyone over 30 with a brain is a conservative. If I understand it correctly you are in college and a good guy so you are justified in your beliefs. I on the other hand am over 30 and would like the government to keep there hands off the money I make.
In all your arguments you have not answered 1 question - (asked in 3 parts LOL) how or why is it my responsibility to take care of someone else? Were was that written into our constitution? When did we become socialists? The reason we are the super power is the system we live by. With all our faults it is still better than what else is out there.
1)It's not technically I suppose. Which is why we have elections. To as a country decide if that's on our priorities.
2)We're not ;)
3)A nice period of expansion was the period where unions and such came about. When we were getting more liberal. Granted, some(like UAW) are far too powerful nowadays.
I vote taxes ... PERIOD

That means I can never vote democrat, which is fine because I believe in taking responsibility for myself and my family, small government, states rights and am anti-war. Basically get the gov't out of my ass so I can make this country a better place. Now I must say, fighting a war overseas will cause our taxes to stay high even if we get McCain. So this election (like the last few) there really isn't a good candidate. Viva La Ron Paul!
For most everything, I agree with getting the government out of my ass.
Finances are really the only exception. And getting out of Iraq would probably provide enough extra rev for whatever the hell it is obama wants to do.
XMCP, I'm very surprised to hear you say that. I've agreed with about everything else you've ever typed. Uhhh, I feel bad for the kids that grow up in the ghetto and all but this country is divided into 2 classes that do ok ... Rich and Poor. I'm all for giving the middle class all the breaks that we give the inner city population. I've got family and friends that work their ass off with a college degree and can't afford insurance and are still living off ramon noodles. On the other hand, I've got family on the wife's side pumping out kids living in section 8 (decent houses) and getting SSI checks, food stamps and free insurance ... all without working. Where's the fairness in that?
Ok. Honestly, I think it absolutely sucks that that mom gets all that if she's not looking for work. But 99%+ ARE looking for work. And for the ones that aren't, I really really don't think their kids should have to suffer, not go to school, and get shitty medical care because their mom is a dumbass. Especially because that would probably throw their future kids into the same situation(no education/stability=fucked up adult)
I'm personally for restitution for the descendants of slaves, but it's only in the form of education vouchers. Teach a brother how to fish, don't fucking feed them fish sticks their entire life and wonder why their still asking for a handout. Giving poverty stricken families money is just suppressing them for generations to come because there is no motivation or education pushing them to do better.

I'm also for population control (which helps the problem of welfare). If you are on state provided insurance, you're tubes get tied after your 1st child ... this is mandantory. I personally feel you should pay MORE taxes for each child you bring into the world, not get tax breaks. So if you can afford more kids because you earn decent money AND CAN PROVIDE FOR ALL OF THEM .. go for it. If I'm going to pay for your kids through my taxes ... fuck you, tie the tubes.
I don't believe in reparations at all. But I'm not going to get into that one.
But getting the tubes tied? ehhh. How about one of those implants that act as birth control. That I can get behind. Less invasive/dangerous, I suspect cheaper, and temporary for when they get off welfare.

Once again, I'm not saying these guys should be rollin big. Just able to eat.
 
XMCP I have to respectfully disagree with you, point by point:

Several reasons.My Expenses are as Follows: Cigarettes, Food, Rent, a modest amount of inebriants, Red Bull. I don't really need as much as I make

First, congrats on being so successful at a young age.

Put yourself in someone elses shoes for a second. I have a mortgage, wife, kid, car payments, tons of monthly expenses, life insurance policies, not to mention the retirement fund since our government is pissing away social security. At this point when the government is taking 40% of your money, trust me, you'll have a problem too.

It's insane that people in this country are starving. I can understand not wanting them rollin Cadillacs on 22s or what the fuck ever, but they should get to eat.
I don't know anyone in this country who is starving that didn't want to be. It doesn't matter what State you live in; there are endless social / welfare / housing programs. NOBODY goes homeless or starving in this country who is willing to NOT be.

If this is a hard concept for anyone to understand, visit your local homeless shelter. You will be hard-pressed to find anyone that has actually worked hard in their life and ended up there. 90% are druggies / alcoholics / mentally disabled people - Nothing at all against these people, they need help, just a different kind of help.

I have lived in some really nasty areas between high school and college. The people there were not lazy. In many cases they were uneducated, but rarely lazy. Some couldn't get transportation to a job as well. Welcome to Detroit btw, where our gangsters are too poor to buy bullets because there's no work.
I grew up dirt-poor in a trailer park. Like, SUPER poor. The roof leaked when it rained. Utilities constantly got shut off, etc.

Looking back, I realized that my parents were irresponsible and bad with managing money. It wasn't that they were lazy - just extremely irresponsible, as I'm assuming you've witnessed in the places you've lived. We all make our own beds.

Minimum wage is not even near what's necessary to live on, even working 50+ hour weeks. Those people work MUCH harder than me. Not smarter, but harder. Oh yeah, and they have to put on pants. I don't.
Contrary to what our constitution or the bible or whatever says, we are not all create equal. Some of us are smarter / more intelligent / more capable than others. They may work 'harder' but try to teach them PHP, they will never, ever, EVER get it. It's just not comprehendable (is that a word?) to these people. Dont' feel bad for them. Just understand that, the cashier working at walmart MOST LIKELY isn't down on their luck... That's all they're really capable of.

I refuse to punish someone's children because their mother is a lazy and/or stupid.
This one I agree with you on 100%. While ultimately I am against universal health care, I DO agree that we need to take care of our youth. Especially from their dead beat parents.

People with money buy shit. They sometimes buy my shit.If you honestly believe most people on welfare or whatever are "not working", and not working by choice, you're an ignorant prick and need to get the hell out of your basement.
Prove yourself wrong. Go talk to some people on welfare. Find some hard evidence that they are not working, even though they want to. You won't find them. They are all losers / deadbeats / etc. Show me ONE example of someone who actually tried to make something of themselves, put forth a legitimate effort and didn't make it.

I'm not un-compassionate, I just have a very low tolerance for people who don't get up in the morning and try to better themselves.

And for what it's worth, I'm a libertarian, not a Republican.
 
For most everything, I agree with getting the government out of my ass.
Finances are really the only exception. And getting out of Iraq would probably provide enough extra rev for whatever the hell it is obama wants to do.

Getting out of Iraq gives us the ability to stop borrowing from China, which is a good start. We need to rid our generation of social security ... that's currently ~40% of our GDP. Keep funding for the old farts with our money because they were lied to and cheated. But be honest with us genxers, it's simply not going to be there and we shouldn't have to pay for our gov't funded retirement that won't exist.

But you want the gov't up our asses with finances??? Do you really think the way they fake budgeting and spend frivolously is going to get the country in better shape?

Give the taxes back to the people and let them donate how they see fit. You want to give money to poverty stricken families, cool. Many others will too. I'm personally going to set up free internet access and give those same kids a cpu. Again, teach to fish.

But 99%+ ARE looking for work ... not go to school, and get shitty medical care ... throw their future kids into the same situation(no education/stability=fucked up adult)

99% is a bit high, perhaps 60-70% is closer, and I do feel for those people. Or maybe Detroit has some ambitious poor people that I've never experienced. Go live in Memphis for a bit and you'll get a glimpse of reality.

Shitty medical care is better than no medical care.

Breaking the chain is tough to do. Giving the handouts has not worked, time to figure something else out. And fucked up adults come from not being loved as a child, not anything that has to do with money, education & food. How can you really say that you love your child when you know you can't afford them and keep popping more out ... that's not love like republicans know it. Remember, Job #1 is to take care of yourself and your family.

But getting the tubes tied? ehhh. How about one of those implants that act as birth control. That I can get behind. Less invasive/dangerous, I suspect cheaper, and temporary for when they get off welfare.

That's a whole different topic and I would wager that very few people in the country agrees with me on this one. That's ok, I still stand behind it. If you want kids that bad after getting your finances together, adopt. Love has nothing to do with genetics.
 
I used to be a democrat but I can feel myself being pulled over to the dark side, the transformation will probably be complete by the time I'm 30
 
There is a funny thing called Parkinson's law. Basically, the more you make, the more you spend. 40% is a lot, but it will always be a lot for everyone. Even if you made 100 million a year, you would still be complaining about the 40%. What 60 million a year not enough for you?

I'm all for entrepreneurialism and free enterprise, but I'm also in favour of socialist values like free healthcare and financial support for those in need. And I'm tired of listening to people complain about taxes. Adapt your lifestyle damnit. Half the world is starving yet those lucky enough to be able to make money complain about taxes cutting down their income.

I'm not old or experienced in the sense of having a family to maintain, in fact I'm younger than xmcp, but I can tell you I couldn't care less about the wealthy, including those of us here who are making good money, getting slapped by taxes. If I was in power I would probably be damn unpopular as I would tax the shit out of people.

My only concern is where the taxpayers money goes. It sickens me to think that a huge proportion of our taxes have gone into dirty work such as the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
 
... I'm tired of listening to people complain about taxes. ... Half the world is starving yet those lucky enough to be able to make money complain about taxes cutting down their income ... I'm not old or experienced in the sense of having a family ...

We complain about taxes because those on the receiving end of the money piss it away. We have a right to complain ... and the last time we did we broke free from your country's oppression in the form of taxes. Turned out quite well if I may say.

The ability to make money has nothing to do with luck. It comes from hard work and perseverance, but not luck.

The last part is a given due to your above statements. You'll realize this one day when you have people that depend on you for food and you see all your money from January >> May gets pissed away by people that think it's important to fight a never ending war on drugs ... gimmieafuckingbreak
 
XMCP I have to respectfully disagree with you, point by point:



First, congrats on being so successful at a young age.

Put yourself in someone elses shoes for a second. I have a mortgage, wife, kid, car payments, tons of monthly expenses, life insurance policies, not to mention the retirement fund since our government is pissing away social security. At this point when the government is taking 40% of your money, trust me, you'll have a problem too.
I can understand that. I've run the numbers. And I know it's not easy, but I'm saying it may be necessary. Not taxing us to hell necessarilly, but to provide these people with something. If I had my say in it, I'd cut the hell out of the war on drugs, and the military. Emphasis on the random ass pentagon projects that spend so much more than they're worth.
I don't know anyone in this country who is starving that didn't want to be. It doesn't matter what State you live in; there are endless social / welfare / housing programs. NOBODY goes homeless or starving in this country who is willing to NOT be.
If this is a hard concept for anyone to understand, visit your local homeless shelter. You will be hard-pressed to find anyone that has actually worked hard in their life and ended up there. 90% are druggies / alcoholics / mentally disabled people - Nothing at all against these people, they need help, just a different kind of help.
Once again, welcome to Michigan. Engler shut down EVERY SINGLE public mental care institution. Everyone that should've been there? Jail or on the streets. They have no option here.
I grew up dirt-poor in a trailer park. Like, SUPER poor. The roof leaked when it rained. Utilities constantly got shut off, etc.

Looking back, I realized that my parents were irresponsible and bad with managing money. It wasn't that they were lazy - just extremely irresponsible, as I'm assuming you've witnessed in the places you've lived. We all make our own beds. a

Contrary to what our constitution or the bible or whatever says, we are not all create equal. Some of us are smarter / more intelligent / more capable than others. They may work 'harder' but try to teach them PHP, they will never, ever, EVER get it. It's just not comprehendable (is that a word?) to these people. Dont' feel bad for them. Just understand that, the cashier working at walmart MOST LIKELY isn't down on their luck... That's all they're really capable of.
I understand and agree. But if you're gifted with something that so many people weren't, don't you feel the least desire to make sure they can exist in a healthy fashion?
We all got lucky. We were given at least some form of opportunity(some more than others) and had the natural ability to do things that SO many people in our country never could. We worked our asses off, yes. But still. Actually, my girlfriend(who is reading over my shoulder) pointed out that the woman who works the hardest out of anyone she knows(I've met her, and it's true), makes less than $15,000 per year. And by the way, she recently got her water shut off. She doesn't live extravagantly at all by the way. And there's no way I can look in my bank account and say that I deserve all that, while she deserves to get her water shut off just because I happened to get lucky in the genetic pool.

This one I agree with you on 100%. While ultimately I am against universal health care, I DO agree that we need to take care of our youth. Especially from their dead beat parents.
I just wish there was a way to give the kids money, without giving it to the parents. And btw, taking them away from their parents it's more expensive, and generally traumatic for the kids(my father used to have to do that as part of his job. Some of the most heart breaking stories you'll ever hear)
Prove yourself wrong. Go talk to some people on welfare. Find some hard evidence that they are not working, even though they want to. You won't find them. They are all losers / deadbeats / etc. Show me ONE example of someone who actually tried to make something of themselves, put forth a legitimate effort and didn't make it.
I've met some that tried to make something of themselves, and did for a bit, and made some shitty shitty decisions. But most around here are people who just aren't capable. I worked(community service) at a private soup kitchen. These guys honestly just didn't have the ability. And with no public mental care or anything like that around here, and no way for them to afford medication, they're just royally fucked. A lot of them just did odd jobs when they could, but it never adds up enough.
I'm not un-compassionate, I just have a very low tolerance for people who don't get up in the morning and try to better themselves.

And for what it's worth, I'm a libertarian, not a Republican.
I agree with that completely. When we are given some gift or talent, it is our almost obligation to everyone else to do the best we can with it and develop it.
However, that said, I don't want to punish the people with IQs lower than the temperature in January. They really can't make much of themselves.
Getting out of Iraq gives us the ability to stop borrowing from China, which is a good start. We need to rid our generation of social security ... that's currently ~40% of our GDP. Keep funding for the old farts with our money because they were lied to and cheated. But be honest with us genxers, it's simply not going to be there and we shouldn't have to pay for our gov't funded retirement that won't exist.

But you want the gov't up our asses with finances??? Do you really think the way they fake budgeting and spend frivolously is going to get the country in better shape?
Spending frivolously? Keeping people alive is spending frivolously? Getting them educated and healthy and in a position where they can actually benefit the country?(providing they're able of course).
Once again. Chop the fuck out of experimental military programs. Chop the fuck out of beaurocracies. Stop putting people in Jail for weed, and try and educate the people that are in jail so they can have a shot in hell of getting a job when they get out(and btw, people with a job will be the guys NOT commiting crimes and NOT using up more police budgets/prosecution budgets). What do you think it costs to arrest and prosecute someone nowadays? Easily 40k. Plus housing them in jail again. That's several years at a private university worth of money. So get em a damn community college education.

Combine all those and you have billions saved from the military, and millions saved from criminals not going back to jail once they're out.
Give the taxes back to the people and let them donate how they see fit. You want to give money to poverty stricken families, cool. Many others will too. I'm personally going to set up free internet access and give those same kids a cpu. Again, teach to fish.
Hellllll yes.

99% is a bit high, perhaps 60-70% is closer, and I do feel for those people. Or maybe Detroit has some ambitious poor people that I've never experienced. Go live in Memphis for a bit and you'll get a glimpse of reality.

Shitty medical care is better than no medical care.

Breaking the chain is tough to do. Giving the handouts has not worked, time to figure something else out. And fucked up adults come from not being loved as a child, not anything that has to do with money, education & food. How can you really say that you love your child when you know you can't afford them and keep popping more out ... that's not love like republicans know it. Remember, Job #1 is to take care of yourself and your family.
Handouts hasn't worked, I'll admit. But I still want to give the kids a chance. Helping the parents are just a necessary condition since they handle the money.

That's a whole different topic and I would wager that very few people in the country agrees with me on this one. That's ok, I still stand behind it. If you want kids that bad after getting your finances together, adopt. Love has nothing to do with genetics.
True, but it's a hard sell still. Given the fact my belief is the government needs to stay the fuck out of my body, it'd be a bit out there for me to agree.
My body is my possession, and regardless of any other condition(and I mean any other condition) they are not allowed to make any permanent decisions about it.
 
People don't vote on personal interest. People choose how they vote by answering the question: "What would a person like me vote for?".
And if you're a guy who values helping the poor over low taxes, you'll vote for that even if it fucks you.
 
<< Spending frivolously? Keeping people alive is spending frivolously? >>

Sure, if we had the money, feed the children. But our aching heart cares more about overseas dealings than our own.

Spending frivolously = FEMA, social security, Department of Homeland Security, Israeli Aid, Dept of Education, War on Drugs, Military overseas, Lucrative Congressional retirement plan, IRS, Federal Reserve, etc .... and yes, welfare, medicare / medicaid.

Should it all go away, of course not. But the levels should not be anywhere close to where they are today.
 
<< Spending frivolously? Keeping people alive is spending frivolously? >>

Sure, if we had the money, feed the children. But our aching heart cares more about overseas dealings than our own.

Spending frivolously = FEMA, social security, Department of Homeland Security, Israeli Aid, Dept of Education, War on Drugs, Military overseas, Lucrative Congressional retirement plan, IRS, Federal Reserve, etc .... and yes, welfare, medicare / medicaid.

Should it all go away, of course not. But the levels should not be anywhere close to where they are today.
You had me until the etc.
 
what I find amusing is that we're on the verge of a global socio-economic meltdown... many 3rd world nations are on the brink of collapse because of food shortages and the riots that are ensuing... the dollar being in the shitter hasn't helped matters either... yet people are still content to argue about trivial shit like dems vs. repubs...

sheeple...
 
I get the excessive taxation argument in principle, but:

  1. The Bush administration, in many different ways, has decimated the Federal budget. Cut taxes + spend way the fuck more. In what world does that kind of math work?
  2. What's with the obsession over welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc? Sure something is more than nothing, so if you're against it in principle, ok. But these are such small parts of the Federal budget (especially after Clinton's welfare reforms) it's kind of silly to keep harping on it if the argument is really levels of gov't efficiency. Defense spending is like 2/3 of the Federal budget. The bulk of the remainder is Medicare & Social Security.
  3. The biggest drains on government spending are the defense/national security black hole and Medicare. Medicare spending is spiraling not because of gov't largesse (they actually keep cutting benefits & payment levels) but only mirrors what is going on in the health care industry at large

Besides what about things like publicly regulated utilities, roads, the Internet, a monetary system that doesn't require exchange of a physical medium, that are the result of *ba dum dum* ... big government?

Disclaimer: No, I'm not in college, and yes, I make very good money (off-line).
 
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