Where do YOU split with the good doctor?

[jonas33h]

Something that looks a lot like a baby is not necessarily a baby. Print the jpg out. Is it a baby? It might have the general shape of a human being. It might have lungs and a heart and a liver and kidneys, and probably a brain, too. But can it breath on its own? Can its heart pump blood on its own? Does it not rely entirely on its host (mother) for every essential function that contributes to something being considered alive?

The "omg totally looks like a baby" argument is a sad excuse for proper reasoning.

so i can shoot you, then say just because you look human, doesn't make it so?


Are you fucking retarded.

 

[IceToEskimos]

you are arguing two separate issue. Contraception prevents sperm to egg abortion kills a baby. two different issues

I'm not arguing two issues. I'm not even arguing one.

If you believe life begins at conception because a fertilized egg may grow into a child then I will raise you, and state that because sperm and unfertilized eggs also have the potential to grow into children we should regulate male masturbation and female menstruation.

 

[lukep]

I get a little uncomfortable with so much power being given to the States, though. I want as little government as possible; both federally and state. And some of the States are so back asswards that I'm concerned about the civil rights of individuals if the federal government were completely out but the States were given full authority.

I know you Texans think that your state encompasses the entire solar system but are you by chance aware that individuals are fully allowed to move from state to state?

They have roads that go from one to the other and everything now! -They don't even ask to see your Visa at the border!

 

[MSTeacher]

Forget what I said, where do YOU part ways?

Good question and +rep for asking it as a RP supporter.

The whole cut federal spending by a trillion in a single fiscal year during a prolonged worldwide economic depression thing is just a bit malodorous. Last time I checked that's a really good way to open a society up to seriously awful times. Maybe the good doctor was busy studying vaginas during history class when they covered Wiemar Germany.

Cutting social services by 30-50% and cutting military spending by like 15%, well.. all I'll say is I hope he's just picking his battles carefully.

The lack of explanation about how the mysteries of the market will keep millions of people fed, warm and healthy after the cuts come to bear..

..and the general void of economic strategy explaining exactly how he plans to execute an effective economic turnaround through the powers of the free market, after severely gouging one of the few existing centers of economic activity, without killing millions of people while the 'correction' manifests itself in all its glory.. I'd like a little more info on that whole situation.

Converting a weak dollar to gold when our country's population carries five figures of debt per person, making people pay back in gold what they borrowed in paper, again, during a prolonged economic downturn, well.. at least a strategy would be nice, like a conversion roadmap or something. He's smart, he could come up with a good name for it.

And wanting to audit the Fed, as if that's going to do something significant. lol come on doc.

And yeah this is a bit disturbing:

There’s nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency.

Yeah thanks doc but I'll keep my currency diversity. Good luck with your globaloney.

 

[JakeStratham]

And yeah this is a bit disturbing:

Originally Posted by Ron Paul
There’s nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency.

Yeah thanks doc but I'll keep my currency diversity. Good luck with your globaloney.

To finish Paul's thought:

...But a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified.

Just being fair to the man.

 

[lukep]

The whole cut federal spending by a trillion in a single fiscal year during a prolonged worldwide economic depression thing is just a bit malodorous. Last time I checked that's a really good way to open a society up to seriously awful times. Maybe the good doctor was busy studying vaginas during history class when they covered Wiemar Germany.

Cutting social services by 30-50% and cutting military spending by like 15%, well.. all I'll say is I hope he's just picking his battles carefully.

The lack of explanation about how the mysteries of the market will keep millions of people fed, warm and healthy after the cuts come to bear..

..and the general void of economic strategy explaining exactly how he plans to execute an effective economic turnaround through the powers of the free market, after severely gouging one of the few existing centers of economic activity, without killing millions of people while the 'correction' manifests itself in all its glory.. I'd like a little more info on that whole situation.

Converting a weak dollar to gold when our country's population carries five figures of debt per person, making people pay back in gold what they borrowed in paper, again, during a prolonged economic downturn, well.. at least a strategy would be nice, like a conversion roadmap or something. He's smart, he could come up with a good name for it.

That was 100% Keynesian BULLSHIT speaking.

It's not too late... Come over to the Austrian side and you will know no more fear.

And wanting to audit the Fed, as if that's going to do something significant. lol come on doc.

The thinking here is that an Audit will easily reveal that our money is so funny that other countries will take note... Internally or externally, just the knowledge of how bad we are at balancing the checkbook will shut down the USD as a global reserve currency... Clearly the opposite of what Nixon wanted and all the presidents since have worked hard to protect.

And yeah this is a bit disturbing:

There’s nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency.

Yeah thanks doc but I'll keep my currency diversity. Good luck with your globaloney.

Where the fuck did you hear that? Paul has explicitly said he wants COMPETING CURRENCIES right here in the USA.

I cannot believe he would have ever said that about currency. The first two sound like him though.



EDIT: Jake knows the score, once again. Anyway, the fact that you (MSTeacher) could think that Paul would want a single currency for even a heartbeat means that you're not familliar with his standpoints. Here, check them out for yourself this time.

 

[turbolapp]

but are you by chance aware that individuals are fully allowed to move from state to state?

That's not really a good excuse for more government control.

So basically the two arguments I've heard here so far are: "If you don't like it, move." (Ironically, what most establishment republicans are telling ron paul supporters) And this solution is the lesser of the two evils (kind of like when people pick romney over obama or obama over romney)

Not really swayed here.

 

[jonas33h]

I part ways with RP on gay marriage. He says that he believes it is between a man and a woman and would just leave it to the states to decide. But he knows very good and well that all men were created equal. With that said I do not believe churches should be forced to marry people that do not fit the values of their church. But you should at least be able to go to the court house get married and let it be called that. gay marriage doesn't infringe on anyone's rights so there is no reason to stand against it.

Other than that he da man

END THE FED

 

[jonas33h]

That's not really a good excuse for more government control.

So basically the two arguments I've heard here so far are: "If you don't like it, move." (Ironically, what most establishment republicans are telling ron paul supporters) And this solution is the lesser of the two evils (kind of like when people pick romney over obama or obama over romney)

Not really swayed here.

Turbo I think you are missing the fundamental point of returning the power back to the states. It is not to give the state more control it is to give the people more control over the imposing restrictions of government. I agree with you less government is always better federal/state.

By giving the power back to the states it makes it easier for people like me and you to demand more freedom's from the states where we live and allow crap states like California and New York to give out as many entitlements as they want until the bankrupt themselves and have to make changes of their own. It is harder to rebel against congress than your state rep. who has to see their constituents every day.

 

[MSTeacher]

Just being fair to the man.

:thumbsup:

That was 100% Keynesian BULLSHIT speaking.

lulz uh huh

The thinking here is that an Audit will easily reveal that our money is so funny that other countries will take note... Internally or externally, just the knowledge of how bad we are at balancing the checkbook

lol you think they don't know that

will shut down the USD as a global reserve currency...

you don't happen to know how the good doc would feel or what he would plan on doing once the single largest driver of world trade is eradicated and the dozens of economies it drives implode do you cuz I'm curious.

Where the fuck did you hear that?

it's part of the congressional record dude

Paul would want a single currency for even a heartbeat means that you're not familliar with his standpoints.

the quote stands. and to my knowledge he's not withdrawn or explicitly contradicted it

END THE FED

yeah.. and then?

 

[lukep]

That's not really a good excuse for more government control.

But overall, it will be LESS government control. Even for those staying in the state.

Would you rather double the power of a normal man or Godzilla? If you double a normal joe's strength he can do worse things like beat you up of course... But he still thinks like a man and has human friends and family... Can still act in your favor at least sometimes.

Meanwhile, if you double godzilla's strength, Tokyo just won't be enough anymore. Get it?

So basically the two arguments I've heard here so far are: "If you don't like it, move." (Ironically, what most establishment republicans are telling ron paul supporters)

Moving from state to state is so normal and easy to do that I honestly had to laugh at the connection you're trying to make here... It's always a good thing to move around between states and find which one fits you the best...

Meanwhile, moving out of the USA is impossible for most Americans. I know because most Americans would consider me "rich" but I'm just barely able to do so myself. I'm still gonna get raped in taxes, too.

And this solution is the lesser of the two evils (kind of like when people pick romney over obama or obama over romney)

Not really swayed here.

By "this solution" are you referring to keeping more power at the Federal level? If so I can't see how there is any comparison... You know how much evil is done with that power... Why would anyone older than potato ever consider this option??

 

[turbolapp]

Turbo I think you are missing the fundamental point of returning the power back to the states. It is not to give the state more control it is to give the people more control over the imposing restrictions of government. I agree with you less government is always better federal/state.

By giving the power back to the states it makes it easier for people like me and you to demand more freedom's from the states where we live and allow crap states like California and New York to give out as many entitlements as they want until the bankrupt themselves and have to make changes of their own. It is harder to rebel against congress than your state rep. who has to see their constituents every day.

Yeah I see all this, and honestly it's not a major deal to me. The OP's question is where do you separate from RP and I couldn't really think of anything solid, more along the lines somethings I'm unsure how they would play out since we've never (at least in recent history) had a leader that followed the constitution.

I can honestly say I have never been this aligned with a canidate, ever. It's bewildering and such an uplifting thing to behold. (Something I had almost given up on in our political system) More so, I'm excited about the younger generation embracing him. I was talking to my son about this and how great it is as a parent to behold his (almost) generation responding to Ron Paul. The old people always bemoan the youth, which is so ironic since they're the ones driving this country to shit. But apparently there's still hope.

 

[lukep]

lol you think they don't know that

It's not documented anywhere except by opinions on blogs and YouTube videos, made by people who are anti-establishment. (Like Paul followers.) It may be widely "known about" but it is not accepted as fact in the business world. Certainly not the depth of how bad the problem is.

you don't happen to know how the good doc would feel or what he would plan on doing once the single largest driver of world trade is eradicated and the dozens of economies it drives implode do you cuz I'm curious.

I know he often quotes Rothbard and Mises and it seems pretty obvious to me that less Gov regulation and more of a free market will do wonders for world trade.

Doing this is the RIGHT THING TO DO. It's called Freedom. What we have now is a fake system keeping us all in slavery.

I do agree that he would be smart to wait to audit the fed until after he's passed (somehow) his regulatory repeals. They need to be done together, or at least not the audit first, and furthermore I'm sure Paul is smart enough to know this.

it's part of the congressional record dude

But it doesn't mean what you reported it to mean. See Jake's correction that you gave a thumbs up to.

Bottom line on a single currency: Dr. Paul is AGAINST it because he is to his core a lover of the free market and has said on many occasions that he'd like to see multiple currencies in the USA.

the quote stands. and to my knowledge he's not withdrawn or explicitly contradicted it

Whatever you got out of that quote doesn't override the above fact.

yeah.. and then?

As the dollar falls have competing currencies rise. It will balance out because that's precisely what a free market does... It is always self-balancing when you remove regulation.

 

[REIMktg]

I have to agree with MSTeacher. It seems no one around here ever considers the immediate implications of their actions and rests on the theory that the market will work it out.

Maybe it will eventually, but maybe not for 50-100 years, billions of deaths, and incredible unrest. You would think the RP supporters would at least advocate a slow, precise, unraveling of the system, not just blowing it up. Must be a lot of young people around here that do not understand suffering.

 

[lukep]

^And how would you know that they "advocate just blowing it up?"

Seems to me you must be pretty high up in the Paul camp to know Paul's entire strategy there dude.

Can you get me an Autograph?

 

[IceToEskimos]

I have to agree with MSTeacher. It seems no one around here ever considers the immediate implications of their actions and rests on the theory that the market will work it out.

Maybe it will eventually, but maybe not for 50-100 years, billions of deaths, and incredible unrest. You would think the RP supporters would at least advocate a slow, precise, unraveling of the system, not just blowing it up. Must be a lot of young people around here that do not understand suffering.

Lots of people are going to die, and there is going to be a lot of unrest regardless.

As far as understanding suffering, I'd like to think that RP supporters understand that legislation is not, and will never be an effective means to mitigate hardship on the level of the individual.

 

[erect]

I know you Texans think that your state encompasses the entire solar system

I can tell you for certain that Arkansas is Texas' moon.

The whole cut federal spending by a trillion in a single fiscal year during a prolonged worldwide economic depression thing is just a bit malodorous. Last time I checked that's a really good way to open a society up to seriously awful times.

... because he'll get libertarianism crucified if given shot within this flawed system...

That's actually the same argument. Angry postal workers will go, well, postal. Some staged, some legit but it won't matter because it'll be all over the MSM engrained in the public's heads. Ron not making friends (sic) on the way up could hurt.

The trillion dollar cut would stimulate the economy and probably postpone Japan's demise and save the euro temporarily (less tbonds to buy). This would be painted as a victory for IMF and socialism. Here at home, the banks would strike back and call in debts costing the unprepared general public everything. When they say "we're all in this together" they mean it. If we continue with fed notes, we'll have to drag the entire world to recovery.

It has potential to end terribly, setting back libertarianism and getting the screws tightened even more. I'm game for RP now, don't get me wrong. It's best for the movement to let the mother fucker burn under someone else's watch and just be the voice of reason & sanity. This isn't a long term plan either, the cards are falling daily.

... With that said I do not believe churches should be forced to marry people that do not fit the values of their church. But you should at least be able to go to the court house get married ...

Your statement assumes the government's involvement at all. I reject any arguments contained on principle.

... More so, I'm excited about the younger generation embracing him. I was talking to my son about this and how great it is as a parent to behold his (almost) generation responding to Ron Paul. The old people always bemoan the youth

Nice pic.

Fear is the most destructive old people problem in the US. Fear of gays voting. Fear of social security failing. Fear of foreign folks. Fear of computers.

As stated in a different thread, I believe they all have full intentions of going down with the ship and have zero problems with the fact they've enslaved multiple generations if the current system holds power ... it's up to our kids generation to really break free though. Our numbers aren't strong enough yet and our generation has contributed to the problem.

Maybe it will eventually, but maybe not for 50-100 years, billions of deaths, and incredible unrest.

In that time frame, 90% of us will be dead anyways

 

[REIMktg]

^And how would you know that they "advocate just blowing it up?"

Seems to me you must be pretty high up in the Paul camp to know Paul's entire strategy there dude.

Can you get me an Autograph?

I get you a link for that.

 

[dreamache]

About the issue of abortion.. Here's my personal timeline.

(Age 0 - 17) I never had an opinion in my early years about abortion.
(Age 18 - 28) When I had a girlfriend and experienced a "scare" that she was pregnant, oh yeah, I was 100% for abortion. 18 yrs old and having a kid? FUCK THAT!!!!
Fortunately, she wasn't pregnant.

(Age 28 - 29 [current age to this last summer]) - Wife's sister was announced pregnant. A girl who should not have a baby by any standards. My first reaction, get an abortion.
(Age 29) - Decides to look up RP's ideas of Abortion: That abortion is an act of aggression against another human being, thus against the ideas of libertarians.. got me thinking my previous ways.
(Age 29 [current age - just to now, when I've made up my mind]) - Abortion is morally wrong.

If a mother believe's she's not fit to be a parent, give the child up for adoption / social services; you at least let the child have a chance at life. If you have sex, accept the consequence and potential of pregnancy.
If you're raped, have the child and either (a) choose to keep it or (b) give it up for adoption. Having been raped is terrible (I'd assume, harhar), but none the less, there is another human life inside of you.

....disclaimer: I'm not 100% on my ideas above, that's why I'm posting them.

 

[IceToEskimos]

Abortion is morally wrong.

I also feel that abortion is morally wrong. However, the state has no business attempting to legislate morality.