US Fires Missiled Into Libya

hellblazer said:
Did you expect me to respond to your brainwashed idiocy? At least Guerilla has original opinions. I'll try and get one simple fact through your diseased mind:

Only Congress has the power to declare war. In Iraq, CONGRESS voted for an authorization of force, effectively a declaration of war. So it doesn't really matter what the wording was, they had the authority, they used it, so it went through the proper legal and constitutional channels.

With Libya, Congress didn't vote on anything. The UN did. And the UN has no power over our military. That's what makes this so disturbing. If the UN and Obama alone can command American troops to attack a country without the authorization of Congress, what kind of a precedent does that set?
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so basically, in your mind, the human life of a non-american is worthless?
You sir, are a despicable person

Also, no-one has declared war - this is a multi-country action to safegaurd the people being brutally murdered by Qaddafi.

it sets the precedent that not all americans are morons like you...

I do understand what you are trying to say

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/03/20/gop-on-libya-whats-obamas-goal/?mod=google_news_blog

but your mindset is just wrong.
 


mattfca said:
so basically, in your mind, the human life of a non-american is worthless?

You sir, are a despicable person
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I can barely follow your twisted logic, but I do know China has been torturing and killing its own people for decades. How many times have YOU spoken out against it? Same thing with Russia, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, etc..

This is a pointless mission. The time to act was over a week ago, when Ghaddafi was weak, not on the verge of victory. There's no standard here that can't be applied to ten other countries, it wasn't done constitutionally, and it's a clear political move for 2012 a la Clinton's "wag the dog" pre-election. So save the righteous indignation. You spout whatever the Left pumps into your soft brain, if I had the time or desire I could probably find you regurgitating talking points in 2003 on why we should let the Iraqi people be butchered by Saddam. So get lost, bitch.
 
mattseh said:
Anywhere. It'd cost slightly more than Libyan oil because of transport costs and there might be some slight short term disruptions, but it's not the end of the world.
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obviously not worth arguing with someone who suggests oil can be sourced from "anywhere"... lol.
 
I am in no position to liberate the people of china, or any other country.

But I do 'speak out' that my belief is that it is wrong...

There are problems with every large nation, doing what we can to help 'humanity' is the best anyone can do.
 
hellblazer said:
In Iraq, CONGRESS voted for an authorization of force, effectively a declaration of war. So it doesn't really matter what the wording was.
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You saying this demonstrates that you are ignorant of the nature of laws in general and international law in particular. The wording is absolutely everything in law, from the smallest disputes in small claims courts to war crimes tribunals in the Hague. Or have you never read a legal document?

With Libya, Congress didn't vote on anything. The UN did. And the UN has no power over our military. That's what makes this so disturbing. If the UN and Obama alone can command American troops to attack a country without the authorization of Congress, what kind of a precedent does that set?
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I agree completely and yes, it is a disturbing precedent. But you're turning it into a partisan issue, as though this happening on Obama's watch is some sort of condemnation of the left or a justification for aggression carried out under Bush's watch by the right. That's silly.

This latetst breach in confidence by the Federal government is no different than the deliberate falsification of evidence eight years ago to justify an invasion of a sovereign country. I'm not hung up on the particular injustice, or which party is in power when it happens. I'm concerned with the trend, which shows that both sides are equally corrupt, compromised, and driven by imperialism. But it seems you are a partisan hack who has trouble negotiating these things.

And for what it's worth, at least Bush told people straight up he was a warmonger. Obama fools way too many people under left cover.

Hang on a second. I just noticed that you justified our invasion of Iraq by saying Saddam was butchering his people. Forget everything I said. Nuke a gay whale for Jesus.
 
hellblazer said:
If the UN and Obama alone can command American troops to attack a country without the authorization of Congress, what kind of a precedent does that set?
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It can't be a precedent because Reagan already did that to Libya without a vote from congress, and he cited a UN resolution.
 
TFLNetwork said:
winnobelpeaceprizebombl.jpg
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+rep
 
What a clusterfuck.

You people are arguing stupid things that don't really address the issue at hand. While I'm always inclined to jump in on the side that is arguing against hellblazer and his lunacy, I really don't agree with anyone's assessment here.

This is, just as Bush's was, another OIL conflict. Bush made up WMDs. O is saying that Gadhafi wants to slay 95% of his own people... GHW Bush said some similar shit about Saddam back in 91... In all cases we're just making up fucking excuses to go secure some oil rights.

Every time. It's a pattern so obvious a 4 year old could spot it... And like MSTeacher says, it has nothing to do with partisanship.

The only real issues on the table are:

1. Should we, as Americans, support another oil war?

2. If not, WTF can we do about it?

3. Is there some international conspiracy to rob the middle east of all of it's oil and make them a 3rd world again while we stockpile reserves?

4. If so, isn't that kind of a crime against humanity?

Any other bickering on here is missing the big picture.
 
lukep said:
1. Should we, as Americans, support another oil war?
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I mean this in all seriousness: what do you believe is the extent of your influence, as an American, over the foreign policy of your nation?
 
kind of interesting how some people who have probably promoted acai berry offers, etc are all of the sudden developing a conscience in regard to an "oil war". not a lot of difference imo. just another opportunity to make money.
 
I am going to say that I actually agree with the bombing of Libya by Europe and America and I am going to say that it has nothing to do with the rights or Freedoms of the Libyian people. It was a last ditch bid by the West to save our oil interests and other investments in Libya, it had nothing to fucking do the freedoms of the Libyian people.

In the beginning of this uprising everyone thought that Qaddafi was done for. This caused western leaders to make a stand on the side of the Libyian rebels 'before' the conflict actually ended. Unfortuantly for them Qaddafi turned out to be stronger than everyone thought and after some time it soon became clear that he would not fall so easily and in fact would most probably prevail.

Anyone who has read about Qaddafi knows he can hold a grudge (look into his son Hannibal and the Swiss Gov incident). If he won, then he would no doubt punish Europe and American oil interests in the country. Where would it all go to? China or India. We like to think we give a shit about other peoples freedom, but what we really care about is the price of oil.

If Qaddafi won we were bound to lose billions. Unlike the war in Iraq or Afganistan we won't be using ground troops and this action has the support of most arab countries. Therefore it makes sense that France, Britain and the U.S bomb the shit out of him.

However I wish that Western leaders would just keep their mouth shut in the future. Why are we always spouting bullshit about every new international event in the news. This just ends up offending people and getting us into these kind of problematic situations.
 
lukep said:
The only real issues on the table are:

1. Should we, as Americans, support another oil war?

2. If not, WTF can we do about it?

3. Is there some international conspiracy to rob the middle east of all of it's oil and make them a 3rd world again while we stockpile reserves?

4. If so, isn't that kind of a crime against humanity?

Any other bickering on here is missing the big picture.
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1. Depends on the circumstances. Iraq was just stupid, this makes more sense strategically.

2.Nothing

3. No, they get paid for it. What they do with the billions they earn from it is their choice. So what if the USA wants to stockpile reserves, if you don't China certainly will. It is actually their number 1 foreign policy objective, securing resources.
4.There is no such thing. Iraq was a crime against the Iraqi people, all
conflicts or crimes are against some nation or race. But in the end most people not effected by the conflict don't really care, outside of giving their opinion in some argument. CNN is the worst, fucking hypocrites.
 
lukep said:
This is, just as Bush's was, another OIL conflict. Bush made up WMDs. O is saying that Gadhafi wants to slay 95% of his own people... GHW Bush said some similar shit about Saddam back in 91... In all cases we're just making up fucking excuses to go secure some oil rights.
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well, i agree its a clusterfuck. But this is not true.
Bush started war against Suddam before it was UN sanctioned. This action against libya was started by the UN, with all nations involved to safeguard the people of libya.

Even IF it is about oil for the US, that is NOT the reason this is happening.
 
jenzkc said:
kind of interesting how some people who have probably promoted acai berry offers, etc are all of the sudden developing a conscience in regard to an "oil war". not a lot of difference imo. just another opportunity to make money.
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How are they even remotely comparable?

You're talking about delivering a mediocre product at a $xx/monthly re-bill that is normally quite easy to cancel compared to decimating thousands of acres of farm land, local economies, killing tens of thousands of civilians and ruining millions of lives.
 
Question .... are we the only. Ones bombing libya? If so why the fuck are we the only.ones? Why doesn't the UK or.any other.countries.step in. Why can't we.be like ... that's not our.problem?
 
Jabberwokky said:
I have seen this shit coming for weeks.

You think it's just a big coincidence that nearly all of the oil rich countries of the world are rioting right now?

The CIA has been known for coaxing a people to create internal sabotage/disruption before.

Obama is just a fucking genius. We need oil. USA has 8 years of oil reserves left, and we sure as hell can't afford to throw away all of our cars in the next 8 years.

He saw the international outrage the USA received upon invading iraq. And learnt from it.

IMHO, obama is saving all of our fucking asses. By acquiring as much oil as possible.
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Feelin ya on that one !
 
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