Time.com: "Having Kids Is Foolish!"

You do realize that is the oldest argument in the book of being a parent, right? ...And another excuse.

It's the oldest argument in the book for a reason. Like you, I had all of these preconceived notions about raising children before I actually had one; and guess what, I was wrong on several of those ideas.

Don't take this so personally, dreamache, it's not an attack on you unless you step forward and say it is so... I have no idea how much time you plan to spend on your child.

I agree that attention is key, but "I'm talking about ending their careers, hiring a staff of people like nannys, cooks, & educators, all to be there for everything the child needs" is what made me laugh, and I shouldn't have to point out why.

This argument reminds of that movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Divito where they were twins and Arnold was deemed as being perfect because he lived on a tropical island paradise with the perfect upbringing lols..
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I respect/agree with your position of wanting to be in the best position in life possible before you have children; but a parent does not have to drop their careers, their personal lives, and/or hire a staff to most effectively raise a child.
 


I agree with you, I wish your parents never brought you into this world as well... (but I feel that way about all idiot pricks that behave like idiot pricks on both DFB an WF forums)
Sounds like you're taking this as a personal attack too.

Lemme ask you this: What is it about the realization of my parents having me for selfish reasons threatens you so? Are you afraid that if all kids were that self aware then parents like you wouldn't be appreciated for their sacrifice?

BTW, what did I say over at DFB forum? I don't remember talking off the topic of DFB over there at all...
 
It's only natural to want to have kids. It's ingrained in our brain for survival. And a lot of people don't spend their time rationalizing it, because they don't need to. They just "know" it's what they want.

Now I am not religious, but I think that bringing another life in the world is a spectacular thing. It's something to be cherished, like how you would your own life. And if you don't appreciate your own life, well I feel sorry for you.
 
This argument reminds of that movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Divito where they were twins and Arnold was deemed as being perfect because he lived on a tropical island paradise with the perfect upbringing lols..
Agreed. Welcome to my daily life. ;)

I respect/agree with your position of wanting to be in the best position in life possible before you have children; but a parent does not have to drop their careers, their personal lives, and/or hire a staff to most effectively raise a child.
Thank you for taking this somewhere that we can talk constructively about it.

I do not claim to be smarter than all parents or any such bullshit; but I have lived in the house of both extremes, and the causes & effects are obvious and irrefutable to anyone else who has done the same.

I've watched my own parents fail miserably, both when broke and when they had a 1/2 million dollar home... In both cases they screwed up by using the TV as our constant babysitter while they went out and did career and social things.

I've watched my wife's parents succeed at a startling thing that I couldn't even comprehend until recently... Probably still don't quite grasp it yet, in fact. The person Arnie was in Twins, he's nothing of a super-human compared to my wife's family. Being raised correctly* accounts for far, far, far more than most people know... Practically everyone.

(*=Correctly as in with the highest standards of parenting in the world.)

Anyway, my mother in law would very likely say to you that you are right; that it COULD be done, both a career and raising your child correctly... But that she personally wouldn't be able to pull it off.

...And I'm telling you that if she couldn't do it, then no one can.

So long story short; you'd be doing your offspring a big favor by spending less time at work and more time on them, and I'm sure you know this deep down inside. It's just that your standard for HOW MUCH MORE time you spend on them is a lot lower than my in-laws' standard.

If your standard is the average American standard, the only thing that is wrong with raising your child under that standard is that at best it can only make a normal American child, and not one that is beyond your own potential.

...You know, the way Americans have done it since the country was founded.

If you're cool with that then there is nothing at all you could learn from this thread.
 
:angrysoapbox_sml:​

Note: I don't think this post is going to make me any more popular around here, but I just can't stop myself.

Having Kids = Selfishness. - In almost every situation, now that the world is such a crowded place.

They didn't fucking ask you to have them anyway, even if it was utopia here.

Yes, I told my parents this. On many occasions. In fact I didn't know how bad the world was yet back then, but all the same I figured out that they were being selfish for creating me just to be there for them... Like I was another pet, toy, or slave. I was brought into being because some other beings wanted me to be something they had in mind. -Does that sound selfless to you?

Speaking of slavery, it's important to put parenting into perspective.

For eons humans have used ALL children as slaves. Period.

Not always sent away as slave labor, but usually working as farmhands on their parents farms or family businesses and so on. All religions, all over the world; All slavery as far as I'm concerned up until modern times.

However it does still go on today in developing countries, and even with a large percentage of Americans too!

They wouldn't admit it of course, but their family standard of work is still one passed down for generations and it's just their standard of doing chores that make them act as slaves.

Then there is the modern class of people like I am sure many of you reading this belong to; you likely mean better than any slavery at all for your child and even want to give them a much improved life over your own... But of course no one has trained you how to do so... Many of you will be no better at parenting than your parents were simply because there aren't school courses on being a good parent. (And you have a standard of work that your parents passed to you, meaning you wouldn't know how good a life you could give them!)

There is hope for us as a species though.

In the last 200 or so years, the upper-most caring individuals (Usually always very wealthy or even royalty) have started practicing the crazy idea of only having children when they know damn well they are ready to give their child the best life humanly possible.

I'd say we've got something like 500 such people on the Earth right now that fit this description... Could be more though, I haven't met everyone yet.

I was obviously not such a child, in fact I haven't talked to my lazy redneck parents in 10 years. However my wife and her brothers are this kind of lucky person. They truly lived a Utopic childhood, and I can tell you for a fact that such a childhood could never spoil anyone.

The most necessary ingredient to spoiling a child is: Not giving them as much attention as they want. -That's it. It has nothing to do with wealth, no matter how rich Veruca Salt's daddy was. He just should have paid more attention to her instead of bribing her so much.

Anyway, my wife's parents had my wife and her brothers only when fully ready and in every way gave up their own lives to pay 100% attention to them until they were old enough to move away and get married... In fact when we visit today they go back into that mode again and their lives there are totally put on hold 100%.

It's difficult for most people to believe how seriously they took the job of parenting. Many of you will think it is freakish, but it worked beyond your wildest dreams...

I'm talking about ending their careers, hiring a staff of people like nannys, cooks, & educators, all to be there for everything the child needs; but most importantly, the main contact with each is still the parent. 24/7/365/LIFE.

Today my wife and her siblings truly couldn't want anything else, even if you took away all their money, and today they have no desire to drive a $100k car or own a huge mansion. They're waaaaay to smart for that. (Oxford grads, FTW.) They all would look down on silly organizations like Mensa and have already, by their 30's, contributed something major to the world in their fields of expertise.

Anyway, sorry about the longwindedness, and I'm not doing this to brag, really. I think it is extremely interesting how different people are of different standards, and how standards dictate things like our happiness and even our actual evolution.

When I first got away from my parent's bad influence, I still wanted children. Not to be slaves or anything, but so that my way of life could go on, I guess.

That was selfish. Now that I know what humans can be, I would never, ever bring a child into this horrible world unless I could do it like my in-laws did it.

Every last one of you would feel the same way too if you knew them half as well as I do. It's really that incredible.

So the moral here is: If you're going to be a parent, Educate the HELL out of yourself on the subject first. Not just a couple books, but EVERY book on parenting would be a good start.

...But just a start.

Until humanity goes down this path we are no more than a bunch of slave-making monkeys, and deserve the uber-crowded, polluted, crappy world we're making ourselves through extreme overpopulation.

Your standards for raising a child are too high and nearly impossible. Very unrealistic thinking.
 
I think that bringing another life in the world is a spectacular thing. It's something to be cherished, like how you would your own life. And if you don't appreciate your own life, well I feel sorry for you.
Me too. Absolutely Spectacular... But something that should truly be cherished is worthy of handling correctly, right? This is essentially my point.

I appreciate my own life just fine nowadays. -I didn't have reason to before when my parents didn't handle my upbringing correctly.

Your standards for raising a child are too high and nearly impossible. Very unrealistic thinking.
Yet, I've seen it done three times by one set of parents.

They weren't even all that rich. Imagine that.
 
Me too. Absolutely Spectacular... But something that should truly be cherished is worthy of handling correctly, right? This is essentially my point.

I appreciate my own life just fine nowadays. -I didn't have reason to before when my parents didn't handle my upbringing correctly.


Yet, I've seen it done three times by one set of parents.

They weren't even all that rich. Imagine that.

Wait, they weren't even all that rich, but yet they were able to quit their jobs and hire nannies, cooks and educators?

Like Instrumentalist said, you have an extremely high set of standards for raising children; and that's fine if that's the standard you've set for yourself. But I think if a parent is financially capable, ready and willing, has a stable life conducive to raising children with a husband/wife, and has enough time to spend at least a few quality hours per day with them; then they should do so. If every parent matched that criteria, we would see a huge rise in the quality of humanity.
 
Me too. Absolutely Spectacular... But something that should truly be cherished is worthy of handling correctly, right? This is essentially my point.

Yes, but it can be handled within reason. And because you witnessed higher standards of someone else's parenting, doesn't make it realistic for most people. My parents were not perfect, but I'm still glad that I am breathing.

They weren't even all that rich. Imagine that.

Good for them?
 
One look at your newborn is all you need.

I NEVER beieved parents who would tell me how wonderful kids are, blabla, etc..

Now here I am, on the other side of the fence.

::emp::
 
love it.

Youre the second person to say this - in the last month..

Dont have kids cuase you are soooo in love , yada yada yada bla bla bla.. have kids because you are ready financially. Dont be pressured into having kids (like thats easy).

For poor young people it sucks. I can see that.

For me its the greatest thing that ever happened to me.
It would be interesting the see if the people that wrote this article have kids, and do they have an agenda. Considering the fact its time magazine, I'm sure they do.

Most American millionaires have kids and are married. That's a fact.
 
luked.
I'm not sure how old you are. But one day if you get a chance. You're child will look in you're eyes, and call you daddy. At that moment maybe you'll get it.
Money, politics, religion a side.
 
Youre the second person to say this - in the last month..

Dont have kids cuase you are soooo in love , yada yada yada bla bla bla.. have kids because you are ready financially. Dont be pressured into having kids (like thats easy).

I made way more money after the kid.
 
I'm 24 and have absolutely no urge to have children, but I am afraid of ending up a lonely old man with nobody around me. Nevertheless that's not a good enough excuse to have one.

Either way, I wouldn't think of having a child until I was financially secure.
 
Ted Turner who owns Time is huge on depopulating the earth like Bill Gates....

If you take any of these moronic studies they've twisted into illogical inferences on not having kids, whether you agree or not, please pay more attention to bullshit when its in front of you...

Being marketers, most of you certainly wouldn't take this seriously...remember how all those acai supplements took alleged "facts" and said you could lose weight with it? Same thing going on here, Ted Turner is trying to sell you on depopulating the earth.

There is no way and will never be a way to quantify something like "joy that a child brings" or "pain that a child brings." And what is the support to say that comfort, ease, and non-stress are of value or virtue?
 
Instrumentalist said:
And because you witnessed higher standards of someone else's parenting, doesn't make it realistic for most people.
Like it was said at the top of this thread, different strokes for different folks. I know very well that most ppl won't accept such high standards. I'm just glad that you guys can see that it's a standard thing, not something else like a fantasy or a religious thing... This way you know that it does exist in the world and what the outcome is.

After enough years, as your standards grow, the seed will sprout and perhaps the next generation will learn a similar lesson from you. Afterall, the endgame here is to make the world a better place... I accept that this takes a lot of time.


Instrumentalist said:
I'm still glad that I am breathing.
I never got that argument... We don't know what the alternative is.
Even if you believe in Heaven, wouldn't the alternative be up in paradise? If you don't, then it's nothing at all, in which you wouldn't experience a single pain in your life nor know any better. Seems like most anything is better than being in this world unless your rich and have skills to stay rich.


luked.
I'm not sure how old you are. But one day if you get a chance. You're child will look in you're eyes, and call you daddy. At that moment maybe you'll get it.
Money, politics, religion a side.
I'm still young enough to physically perform the task, ;) and I would very much like that feeling you describe, but I doubt that I'm going to be rich enough in time to uphold my own standards.

Although I don't disagree that I'll "get it" if and when that happens, what could there be to "get" that would make me lower my standards enough to suddenly care less about that child's well-being?
 
I was wondering why poor countries have the most population with big families.

Thanks TIME magazine.
 
I never got that argument... We don't know what the alternative is.
Even if you believe in Heaven, wouldn't the alternative be up in paradise? If you don't, then it's nothing at all, in which you wouldn't experience a single pain in your life nor know any better. Seems like most anything is better than being in this world unless your rich and have skills to stay rich.

There is no alternative, and that's my point...
 
I'm 24 and have absolutely no urge to have children, but I am afraid of ending up a lonely old man with nobody around me. Nevertheless that's not a good enough excuse to have one.

Either way, I wouldn't think of having a child until I was financially secure.

You could still end up a lonely old man even with kids.