The EURO CLUSTERFUCK..

Yuckystuff said:
Every time I look at my country in despair and realize how fucked we are, I look to Europe and lollercopters my ass off. Thank you Europe for making America look less fucked up.
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This right here.
sixthcutuan said:
Europe =/ Eurozone.
It's pretty much north vs south here. North tends to be tax-paying, hard working and generally pretty sensible with investing in infrastructure. South is (seen as) the opposite. Italy and Greece etc will be getting a lot less tax revenue than they should be. We all have little hopes for heavy longterm economic growth because most of our exports go to the EU, and hell, you're in the same boat.
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Also this. It's true that not all European countries are over leveraged, but the ones that are are fucking everyone over. U.S exports will be suffer, however has a wider portfolio of export partners than the strong EU economies (they have heavy trade benefits within the Eurozone) per se.
But yea, like I said global financial buttfuck.
 


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Ar Scion said:
Is any benefit likely? Who wants to carry the burdens of Greece, Italy and Portugal?

Certainly Germany and the UK won't.
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I think These countries will have to step up a gear and play ball like the rest of Europe. They have it so easy right now working 5-6 hour a day (I know we often talk about escaping the 9-5 etc.. and how great it is to be an IM), but the rest of the 9-5 workers take a huge brunt and work their ass of for us. They work their ass off to make money so they can drive consumerism which we profit from.

In the mediterranean countries the working discipline and hours are a lot more laid back. Working life is slow, nowhere near as fast paced as in the Uk for instance.

In spain they have 2 hour meetings and get less than half done of what you would get in the UK meeting.

I have a cousin who travels back and forth between Spain and UK, and has to sit in a fair amount of board meetings, he always tells me how fruistrating it is to get anything done at speed over there.

The climate will alwyas play a part in work ethic, same thing in the US. work ethic in california and new york are very very different.

As much as I hate the EU. As much as Im glad we have the pound. I think a common United States of Europe is inevitable. It's going to happen sooner or later. So I've prepared myself psychologically for it.
 
TigerUK said:
I think These countries will have to step up a gear and play ball like the rest of Europe. They have it so easy right now working 5-6 hour a day (I know we often talk about escaping the 9-5 etc.. and how great it is to be an IM), but the rest of the 9-5 workers take a huge brunt and work their ass of for us. They work their ass off to make money so they can drive consumerism which we profit from.

In the mediterranean countries the working discipline and hours are a lot more laid back. Working life is slow, nowhere near as fast paced as in the Uk for instance.

In spain they have 2 hour meetings and get less than half done of what you would get in the UK meeting.

I have a cousin who travels back and forth between Spain and UK, and has to sit in a fair amount of board meetings, he always tells me how fruistrating it is to get anything done at speed over there.

The climate will alwyas play a part in work ethic, same thing in the US. work ethic in california and new york are very very different.

As much as I hate the EU. As much as Im glad we have the pound. I think a common United States of Europe is inevitable. It's going to happen sooner or later. So I've prepared myself psychologically for it.
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What percentage of American's think Europe is a country anyway? I can't remember the figure but it was pretty high.

I think everyone agrees that many of the people in the southern countries don't work in an efficient manner and this needs to be improved but I would actually say that the main reason behind many of the problems is the fact that they don't even bother paying tax. It's pretty much optional in Italy and Greece and the problem is that if no one pay's it, it's impossible to police them all.

I doubt the US would be too pleased with the EU becoming a country seeing as they would no longer be "top dogs" in the world.
 
WickedJoe said:
Greece is trying to get out of debt by shorting the world markets and announcing something bad. Then going long the markets and announcing something good. Rinse, Repeat.
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I'm quoting myself, because to anyone watching, this shit is hilarious. The words of just a few people keep jerking the entire worlds markets around. I was joking above but it's totally possible.
 
Honestly Germany was the most idiotic nation to join Euro. They are so powerful economically, they just made a huge fucking mistake which they have to pay now.
 
Yuckystuff said:
I've always wondered about this. What did Germany have to gain?
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Yuckystuff said:
What I mean is - Germany has always been a powerhouse, even long before the Euro. It seems obvious (maybe only in retrospect) that a lot of the other countries in the EU would never carry their own weight.
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After the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, Thatcher and Mitterrand insisted that Germany had to give up part of its sovereignty(as introducing the Euro) as precondition for the reunification in 1990.
The Treaty of Maastricht wich introduced the Euro was the result.
Nobody wanted a reunited Germany with the almighty D-Mark as the new powerhouse in central Europe; the French had allready to devalue their currency from time to time to keep up with the German economy before the reunification.
The Euro and its consequences - a fiscal and political union - are the price for it.
And Germany will lead this new Europe.
What we see now is just a consolidation process, and a ruthless wolf pack doing their thing.
 
Yuckystuff said:
But what would France, Belgium, Italy etc have been able to do if Germany told everyone to eat a dick, reunified and went on their own? At least with the DMark, because Britain kept the Pound after all...
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Germany was not a sovereign nation at that time.
Belgium,Italy etc had no say in this,but the Allies did.

Wikipedia:
"Germany remained under nominal military occupation until 15 March 1991, when the final ratification of the Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany (signed on 12 September 1990) was lodged with the German Government. This, as the final peace treaty, was signed by the four powers and the two German governments restored German sovereignty. It also meant the official end of the Allied Control Council, insofar as it still existed at all."
Allied Control Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have in mind that when the Wall fell,there where still Russian troops in East Berlin and bases in the DDR; US and allied troops all over the BRD (and still there).
It was Mikhail Gorbachev in 1986 wich initiated Glasnost and Perestroika, wich led to the revolution in eastern europe and finaly to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the fall of the Iron Curtain.
But Honecker didn't follow Gorbachev's lead,trying desperate to maintain status quo. And when the people could not take it anymore, they stood up and chanted "We are the people!". The rest is History.

tl;dr :there where a lot of powers in play wich led to the events in November 1989 and so to the Euro, there was no "eat dick and i do what i want".
 
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i kinda pity greek since some of my employees are there. they are definitely in a crap shoot
 
Yuckystuff said:
Every time I look at my country in despair and realize how fucked we are, I look to Europe and lollercopters my ass off. Thank you Europe for making America look less fucked up.
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emp said:
err... nope, you still look fucked up beyond repair.

Signed,
::emp::
(Eurofag)
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While I agree that the US is FUBAR the Euro is worse off near term (out to a year or so) than the US and the dollar. Long term both are fucked as all those bills they kept kicking down the road get too big to move anymore.

There is really no denying that there is some serious readjustments coming in the next few years, the important question is what form they are going to take and if we are going to be able to do it without mass violence. I really would like to think we can do it in a civilized manner but I honestly think it is going to get pretty ugly.
 
ARVolund said:
While I agree that the US is FUBAR the Euro is worse off near term (out to a year or so) than the US and the dollar. Long term both are fucked as all those bills they kept kicking down the road get too big to move anymore.

There is really no denying that there is some serious readjustments coming in the next few years, the important question is what form they are going to take and if we are going to be able to do it without mass violence. I really would like to think we can do it in a civilized manner but I honestly think it is going to get pretty ugly.
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It's not just that, and the difficulty of unifying such a diverse set of nations, it's that the bulky, tax-eating entitlement system in Europe is so vast and so ingrained in society. The concept of libertarianism and small government in Europe is the equivalent to communism in the US.
 
TigerUK said:
true, but the european states needed to take that hit for the long term benefit 20-30 years from now.

Im sure the American Union was the same when it began, The north frowing on slavery, and the south wanting to continue slavery. Very very different attitudes and culture.
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You know seem to know as much about American history as I do UK history (nothing at all).
 
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