State of affiliate marketing, GURUS, and other things...

[erifdekciw]

(forgive the shitty headline, but I just want to have a discussion about this).

So I'm probably one of the few people on here still trying to grind away at the affiliate marketing game, but there has been a lot of stuff going on in the industry that makes me wonder if affiliate marketing is still viable these days for a regular joe. It's making me wonder if the affiliate industry as a whole is on the decline...

What kicked this off was the shift in all the big players focus over the last year or two. Remember shoemoney, johnchow and the other big bloggers? Not that they were god-tier affiliates or the top dogs, but they were a big starting point for a lot of people back in the day. Where are they now?

Shoemoney seems to be doing his own thing, has some products and courses, but nothing at the level of sellout johnchow has gone.

John chow seems to have cashed in everything and went straight into the MLM scene and is cashing in on his newbie reader base. As much as I don't like john chow, I never thought he would become a total sell out and hock a garbage MLM company 24/7 on his blog.

Didn't think much of either of them, so it didn't really surprise me too much when they went full 110% guru mode.

But as time passed I noticed other big, more reputable affiliate bloggers starting to make the shift from AM to teaching. I'm going to name a big name here and fellow WF user, charles ngo. I love charles and his blog is gold. He's always been one of the best go to guys for affiliate stuff... But now even his blog has turned into another "guru for hire".

The only reason I mention charles is because I remember the days when everyone here laughed at the idea of gurus and people "selling-out" because they couldn't hack it in the affiliate game anymore.

Now I'm starting to wonder if there is something I'm failing to see. Is the affiliate game really that tough now? Surely if there was still a ton of money to be made doing AM, these guys wouldn't be going guru status selling ebooks and courses for $50-$500 a pop.

Or maybe the affiliate business is on the decline and everyone who made a small name for themselves is cashing in on that while they still can.

Everywhere I look some old school player seems to be trying to cash in and become the next big guru. Maybe the money is easier to make.. if so more power to them, but at the same time it makes it feel like the AM ship is sinking and everyone is jumping on a lifeboat to save their ass.

Maybe if charles is still around he can tell us why he went that route. I've always wondered why someone would want to become a guru especially anyone with ties to this place, seeing how it was heavily anti-guru for a long time.

And I'm not trying to bash anyone who does it (well maybe john chow because that guy would probably sell his mother for a dollar). I'm just curious how this all plays into the big picture. You know somethings wrong with the business if a lot of the top guys are offering to sell you their secret sauce for a fraction of what they claim to be making.

Maybe I'm just a hater, Maybe I'm just jealous, Whatever it may be. I just want to have a discussion about this topic, because I've never been a fan of gurus and a lot of that distrust for gurus started here... but maybe there is something I am missing. Or maybe I just want someone to come out and say it "I make money off newbies because it's easy".

I'm curious to know WF's thoughts on this... Am I the only one who hates this trend?

 

[medicalhumor]

at the end of the day, you have to put food on the table. I haven't seen their blogs lately, but if they are able to offer someone something of value and not just scam newbs out of their money, more power to them. Adapt or die.

I'm curious to know WF's thoughts on this... Am I the only one who hates this trend?

Indeed, it's tough to watch this industry in general trickle away.

 

[kyescontent]

Indeed, it's tough to watch this industry in general trickle away.

I'm not sure that's really what's going on. I think it may be more like the dotcom bubble. Lots of people dove into that thinking it'd be easy to make a killing online, and the bubble burst as a lot of people found out otherwise and washed out.

But the bubble itself was unnatural. The internet has only continued to grow since then, along with online opportunities to make money. I think that we've seen an unnatural bubble with AM as well. That's going away, but it doesn't mean the industry is trickling away. It may just be adjusting to what will become a normal, slower, steadier growth curve after a reset period.

 

[JakeStratham]

The affiliate model will never go away. It was being used long before the internet. It will be used long after all of us are dust in the wind.

But coaching is very lucrative if you can prove you know your stuff. What's more, it builds your brand and sets the stage for developing products you control.

Several years ago, I watched a friend, an affiliate marketer, get up on stage, give a 45-minute presentation and sell $750,000 of coaching. That's more than he was making each month with affiliate marketing (he was making a lot, but not that much).

If you can do the same, why would you not do so?

 

[BeerNuts]

I think affiliate marketing was a bubble like Kye mentioned. It wasn't just that SEO and SEM were easy money. It was also that many businesses still didn't quite know much about online marketing or didn't want to spend the extra cash. Having affiliates do it for them seemed like a good idea. No risk, all reward and they didn't need to worry about it. Then slowly their in-house programs grew and grew and they realized they wanted to rank for their own terms so started the "do not bid" lists and not being able to use copyrights etc. After years of that and them doing fine on their own with total control over their brands they just didn't need the affiliates.

Most all of the legit offers that I promoted either closed or priced me out. Campaigns that had run for 4 years now were unprofitable. Payouts decreased and cpc's increased. I kept afloat a bit longer being super inventive like everyone else. New unknown traffic sources, new styles of landers, etc but it didn't last. The companies I used to promote all have their own in-house SEO/SEM teams and they have just taken over where the affiliates used to be. Sure some still have the programs but payouts are 1/5th what they were. I just got priced out of the business margins are just to low to bother with how much work it took.

This is just from my personal impression and own laziness. I know tons of people are probably still out there busting ass doing fine. I think with the gurus its just that they realize in the end that it is far less work to just talk about affiliate marketing and be a guru then to have to constantly innovate to keep alive.

Affiliate marketing is probably mostly back to established sites with tons of traffic already wanting to make some extra ads that they can control. I mean shit every price comparison site is an affiliate site. For us its all that we went for the quick money/short term offers and were not the affiliates that made the massive content sites.

 

[contract]

Things have changed..

- Start up scene has sucked away a lot of talent.. Why hustle when you can just spend other people's money while building your own co.. (If not building a start up, then there's the # of rising high-paid tech jobs. Steady paychecks.) OR Kickstarter, etc too.

- Algo changes drove a lot of people away/out.

- Website flipping growing trend (Flippa).

- Social media / viral sites cashing in.

- # of web apps/services/tools/platforms has grown significantly.. There's a chart out there with before and after, it's crazy.

- Networks closing/scamming/etc. Rebills.. FTC...

- eCommerce has grown. Amazon in particular.. Make your own products, harness their traffic.

- Deal/coupon sites/toolbars/etc popped up.

- eBay change their affiliate program.

- Blocked affiliate links when running ads. (Adwords polices for example) Or FB blocking dating ads recently.

- Video content grew.. (Youtube)

- Ad blindness, ad blocking, massive bot/fake traffic, etc.

- (While not directly Affiliate marketing), Widspread Adsense bans/huge revenue cuts for publishers.

- Forums died down, people started switching to syndicate hubs like GrowthHackers.

- "Growth Hacking"...

- People started building big brands.. (Goes back to Flippa)

- Anti-virus software and browsers

- "Super affiliates" moving away from sharing great industry insights/advice to selling awful, outdated ebooks, programs, etc to the gullible.

- More and more mobile traffic. GL conversions. (Think of ad format/sizes too)

- MLM programs hooked a good % of the younger generation who wanted to make money outside of a 9-5. Visalus, or w/e they call it. That energy drink brand, etc. etc. There's many. (Then The Empower Network Movement, and all that other shit)

- Advertisers working with agency to get within private networks. Why let small affiliates touch your brand, when you can just partner with a few big publishers.

.......

For the guru thing.. Why hustle when you can sell the dream for 100x more, and with 1/100 the effort.

 

[acidie]

Remember shoemoney, johnchow and the other big bloggers? Not that they were god-tier affiliates or the top dogs, but they were a big starting point for a lot of people back in the day. Where are they now?

Shoemoney seems to be doing his own thing, has some products and courses, but nothing at the level of sellout johnchow has gone.

John chow seems to have cashed in everything and went straight into the MLM scene and is cashing in on his newbie reader base. As much as I don't like john chow, I never thought he would become a total sell out and hock a garbage MLM company 24/7 on his blog.

Anytime someone has a large following they are a Guru/Leader/Authority Figure.

And what they are doing now is exactly what they were doing before, it's what they are promoting that changed.

MLM* is AM just with a different marketing approach, it's still slinging other peoples products/services for a commission.

I can only guess to motives, but it seems logical to move towards MLM since I would guess ShoeMoney, John Chow, etc have been approached by MLM networks before, they just never had a reason to sling their shit.

Now they do.

People are moving away from AM for a number of reasons, though mostly I suspect because the easy money is gone. And I say good, but if you're making money by promoting shit to your followers you have to follow the money.

The Internet has grown up and shit's getting harder, fact of life. They are just moving with the times.**

* To be clear, I'm not defending MLM, I dislike MLM immensely, but I still admit that when you break it down there is little difference between the two.

** Again to be clear I don't care what they do, I don't read their blogs, just calling how I see it.

 

[SirKonstantine]

IMO what they're doing is a smart move.

1.) They have a pool of loyal readers
2.) Coaching is a better form of learning than reading a blog post
3.) They make more money from coaching
4.) People they've coach will be even more loyal fans
5.) Coaching is a monthly service whereas a an affiliate sale is a one time commission

Who could say no to increasing estimated lifetime value per customer, cash flow, and ROI in one move?

And, *no*, coaching is not easy. You'll have to *coach* the mother fucker. Some people are ready and willing to open up their wallets for a solution but, when its time to act (even with a coach), they're lazy as fuck. Then, its *your* job as his/her coach to motivate him/her. Talk about a hard job.

Also, if you've coaching the mofo and he's stuck and isn't getting results, after awhile, it drains you. Like, you'll think "is it me? am I a bad teacher?" and other stuff like that.

Don't think this is true? Who would buy IM coaching? Are they self-starters? Self-learners? Willing to give it their all? Willing to lose everything? If they are, they'd be grinding and learning from the market, their competitors, and other IMers instead of just 1 source (limits your potential right there).

Anyways, enough of this, time for me to write some highly informative articles; so informative that StackCash states my rate would be $5/100 words if I were to sell my articles. (Thanks StackCash!).

 

[bluechinagroup]

I still have plenty of affiliates pushing my offer. I'm not dependent on them though. I have my own internal campaign that I run as well.

Also once you reach a certain threshold, it's smart to move up from affiliate to something a bit more ambitious. Be it guru, running your own offer, etc. I started out as an affiliate, but now I run a sustainable rebill offer and am about to launch several more.

 

[tangy]

Smart marketers work to maximize the amount of income they make from any given audience.

What Charles, Shoe, Chow or any other "guru" is doing is just that. They're marketers working to extract as much cash as possible. Pretty straightforward.

 

[barman]

so affiliate marketing is dead and Charles Ngo killed it?

 

[stockfire]

sometimes I jerk off to the size of dr ngo's ego, I mean it's just so big and veiny.

 

[avatar33]

Even the Rich Jerk is doing a comeback, and this time with celebrities by his side.

The way I see it... the guru business is the most evergreen niche you will ever find. There is never a shortage of people willing to pay to learn to make millions. NEVER.

Those guys are sick of always having to find new offers and new sources of traffic, so naturally the guru path becomes the obvious choice... it's the easiest long term way to generate recurring income. Their audience is already there and they're hungry as fuck, so it's kind of a no-brainer... The ones that don't choose this path generally launch their own startup or invest in startups/offline businesses. Very few stay in the affiliate game.

Any of you guys following what MOBE is doing? They are distributing some of the biggest monthly checks I've ever seen to their affiliates... which include John Chow, Shaqyir Hussein and some unknown guys. Part of their strategy seems to be organizing seminars in Asia where they're able to fill football (soccer) stadiums full of noobs that pay to be there.

 

[conjamuk]

Those guys are sick of always having to find new offers and new sources of traffic, so naturally the guru path becomes the obvious choice

This is so true.
The guru game seems to be a goldmine. Private membership sites, books, seminars.

 

[eliquid]

(forgive the shitty headline, but I just want to have a discussion about this).

So I'm probably one of the few people on here still trying to grind away at the affiliate marketing game, but there has been a lot of stuff going on in the industry that makes me wonder if affiliate marketing is still viable these days for a regular joe. It's making me wonder if the affiliate industry as a whole is on the decline...

What kicked this off was the shift in all the big players focus over the last year or two. Remember shoemoney, johnchow and the other big bloggers? Not that they were god-tier affiliates or the top dogs, but they were a big starting point for a lot of people back in the day. Where are they now?

Shoemoney seems to be doing his own thing, has some products and courses, but nothing at the level of sellout johnchow has gone.

John chow seems to have cashed in everything and went straight into the MLM scene and is cashing in on his newbie reader base. As much as I don't like john chow, I never thought he would become a total sell out and hock a garbage MLM company 24/7 on his blog.

Didn't think much of either of them, so it didn't really surprise me too much when they went full 110% guru mode.

But as time passed I noticed other big, more reputable affiliate bloggers starting to make the shift from AM to teaching. I'm going to name a big name here and fellow WF user, charles ngo. I love charles and his blog is gold. He's always been one of the best go to guys for affiliate stuff... But now even his blog has turned into another "guru for hire".

The only reason I mention charles is because I remember the days when everyone here laughed at the idea of gurus and people "selling-out" because they couldn't hack it in the affiliate game anymore.

Now I'm starting to wonder if there is something I'm failing to see. Is the affiliate game really that tough now? Surely if there was still a ton of money to be made doing AM, these guys wouldn't be going guru status selling ebooks and courses for $50-$500 a pop.

Or maybe the affiliate business is on the decline and everyone who made a small name for themselves is cashing in on that while they still can.

Everywhere I look some old school player seems to be trying to cash in and become the next big guru. Maybe the money is easier to make.. if so more power to them, but at the same time it makes it feel like the AM ship is sinking and everyone is jumping on a lifeboat to save their ass.

Maybe if charles is still around he can tell us why he went that route. I've always wondered why someone would want to become a guru especially anyone with ties to this place, seeing how it was heavily anti-guru for a long time.

And I'm not trying to bash anyone who does it (well maybe john chow because that guy would probably sell his mother for a dollar). I'm just curious how this all plays into the big picture. You know somethings wrong with the business if a lot of the top guys are offering to sell you their secret sauce for a fraction of what they claim to be making.

Maybe I'm just a hater, Maybe I'm just jealous, Whatever it may be. I just want to have a discussion about this topic, because I've never been a fan of gurus and a lot of that distrust for gurus started here... but maybe there is something I am missing. Or maybe I just want someone to come out and say it "I make money off newbies because it's easy".

I'm curious to know WF's thoughts on this... Am I the only one who hates this trend?

I'm glad you brought this up.

This is something I have been watching myself personally over the last 3 years and I have a lot to comment about on.

I am not going to go too deep into it, but while I agree with you I also know its a natural transition.

When you are doing well and you start to blog or podcast about a topic, people naturally look to you as a "guru" of sorts and start to ask for your advice and follow you. That in itself is "teaching" to a degree even if its just you sharing a blog post.

At some point you start sharing more and more and get asked to speak at a conference or someone ask you personally for 1x1 help which is a next level of the teaching.

Then it makes the leap into what you describe above.. giving seminars, writing books, "selling out", and "guru-ing". It's just the next step up the ladder all stemming from having a good userbase of blog fans.

You need to watch these guys though. You will pick up signals, texts, and things they say that don't match up to what they said the week before, the month before or even match up to what they are posting cross channel on different outlets. Some of them just are not what they post of themselves online.

 

[dsm56]

I agree with the fact that it is easy money and a lot less hassle doing this than constantly trying to innovate.

I've had quite a bit of success with affiliate revenue over the last 2-3 years so it's definitely possible, but not in the traditional way that was explained on wickedfire or STM etc.

I think there is another reason for this guru trend though. I am pretty sure 80-90% of affiliate marketers suffer from some type of personality disorder, most likely narcissistic personality disorder. Scratch that, most entrepreneurs suffer from personality disorders. It's why we start, and then why we do it, being fucked up helps in being different.

But if you investigate how narcissistic people behave, it's easy to see why a lot of people end up as gurus. Not only is it quite easy money, it fills the void quite nicely that your personality disorder gives you. In a way it gives you something more important than money, admiration and constant feedback about how great you are. For a lot of people, I think that's actually more important than the money over a certain level of income. (if you're already "rich")

It's a trap of course if you want to be fuck you rich. You'll never be fuck you rich as a guru, just quite rich. But perhaps it never was about the money, not really.

 

[slayerment]

This is how free markets work. The margin through affiliate marketing has slowly been growing less and less. When less people knew about it and less people did it the margins could be larger. Now that the Internet has matured more and more and more people focus on advertising online there are less margins to go around.

This same thing happened with websites. You used to be able to charge $5,000 for a simple brochure site. Now people can get that same site for free. Free markets make things cheaper and cheaper until they become free.

Now you just have to find the next market imbalance that you can exploit.

 

[ptpatil]

The internet has grown up and is not the wild west anymore. Affiliate marketers were always the snake oil salesman of sorts in the wild west of the internet. Very few affiliate marketing "offers" really offered anything anyone who wasn't a moron would buy.

Shit like that only lasts for a while, currently the most capital resides in the app bubble, and most people who had any technical skills etc. worth anything has been sucked up in that bubble making some app or another with VC monopoly money instead of slinging berries and rebills to slack jawed retards with credit cards.

 

[cheshire]

Been hustling the Affiliate Marketing game since 2001, still make more money than ShoeMoney, JohnChow or any of those fake ass busta's.

Affiliate marketing is still viable, profitable and fun. I'm personally glad the heat is dying down, mo' monies, mo' opportunities fo' me!

 

[rusvik]

The internet has grown up and is not the wild west anymore. Affiliate marketers were always the snake oil salesman of sorts in the wild west of the internet. Very few affiliate marketing "offers" really offered anything anyone who wasn't a moron would buy.

I know most of you guys are paid traffic to rebill type offer affiliates, but the above is simply not true.

People in the civilized world are buying bigger and more expensive purchases online by the year and that won't change. 10% of a semi-pro fitness machine or high end espressomaker or garden trampoline or home remodeling adds up real nice.

While the middle class is thinning, the middle class in the top spends more than ever on their precious little prestige projects (also known as kids). God bless these elite mommies with tight ass in yoga pants and their expensive lifestyle.