NJACT: Not Just Another Cancer Thread

infoslob said:
My experience with hospital doctors, oncologists particularly, were positive.

However, my friend Scotty died on August 8. ** [Here's his wikipedia obituary - still don't know who put it in. My only add to it would be that he routinely would broke his claim to only fuck thin American blondes to fuck European and Australian blondes. He was the fucking man.]

He lived hard and didn't take care of himself when he got sick; he always had this "North of England" tough persona going on - which doesn't do jack shit in the face of cancer.

In fact, he wouldn't go to the doctor about it until he was spitting and coughing up blood. By then his lung cancer was stage 4 with 'mets' in his mind.

SO - he had his primary tumor removed from his lung in May - and then that brain op next. He had two more brain ops in two different hospitals. By the time we got him Rolls Royce treatment the doctor remarked he'd been treated like Frankenstein.

For this experience I'd opt for quality of life rather than curative when the odds are stacked against you. He never got much quality of life, just reduced experience and went out after months with no more than a childlike mind. And he was one sharp fellow.

All that said - there's a doctor I got to know, the infamous Dr. Lederman who made George Harrison sign guitars on his death bed.

This guy treats cancer the way bulldog prosectors treat court cases. Does not give a fuck about anything but his innovative radiosurgery techniques, his was yet another surreal chapter within a surreal experience - yet I cannot recommend a doctor more highly. His bedside manner atrocious, work ethic outstanding. Worth crossing an ocean for, plenty have.

I hope the best for you and your family. Spend as much time as possible with him.

I'll just add that while poring through cancer messageboards, I seemed to notice patterns, arcs of experience that desperate patients seemed to go through. The willingness to try anything, the lengths to go to for a cure or coming out the other side - and then ultimately, death.
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It goes both ways. People will try any orthodox or alternative treatment. Brain radiosurgery is very risky and unfortunately he came out worse. That is what I don't like about orthodox treatments, its butchery.
 


microphone head said:
OP: My heart genuinely goes out to you - I have two brothers suffering terminal cancer. It literally brings tears to my eyes when I think about it as they're two of the kindest people I have ever known.

Bro #1 - Brain tumor. Treated within days (thanks to knowing Harley street docs) (and being insured). Radiotherapy has changed his 'chances of living' from six months to now - 'probably a long life' (he was given the first diagnosis over 3 years ago and now he's fine... so it would seem to me!)

Bro #2 - Kidney cancer. One day woke up and went for a piss. Pure blood.
Went to the doctor - referred straight to hospital.
Keyhole surgery to get rid of the cancer didn't work. Removed entire kidney. Now lymph nodes have popped up and it's spread to his spine & liver. I don't hold much hope for him having an enjoyable "end-of-life" That really upsets me - massively.

OP: You're in London - Is your dad at The Royal Marsden yet?
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Glad to hear your friend pulled through and still living on. As for your second brother, what is his next treatment suggested by doctors?

My dad has moved to Essex where my sister is. They are still in the process of transferring the hospital, so not sure which hospital it will be.
 
SeoReborn said:
I'll list what protocol my Dad will be on soon.

Saw the tag 'it worked for Steve Jobs'. Does anyone know what alternative treatment he was on? I only see articles about how his 'special diet' failed but found an article that mentioned he was on the Ornish diet.
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his diet didn't fail. It provided him with all the nutrients he needed and never went to bed hungry. What it didn't succeed in was wishing cancer away. But that, quite frankly, is a bit much to ask of a diet.

You'll need an awful lot of orphan tears to treat cancer. Good luck though. You'll need a lot of it.
 
SeoReborn said:
Saw the tag 'it worked for Steve Jobs'. Does anyone know what alternative treatment he was on? I only see articles about how his 'special diet' failed but found an article that mentioned he was on the Ornish diet.
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Remind me what prematurely killed him again?
 
Here is the protocol my Dad is on:

1. Low carb high fat diet
2. Vitamin D
3. Ubiquinol
4. IP6 + inositol
5. Vitamin C
6. Chlorella vulgaris
7. Zinc
8. Beta Glucan
9. Serrapeptase
10. B17
11. B15 + mixture of minerals (magnesium, potassium etc)

Already started 1-9. 1-8 started one and half weeks ago. 10 started on Friday. 11 will come in next week.
 
Just in case you're paying a lot of money for this.

These, among others, are standard ingredients of every vitamin supplement. quit trying to pass this off as awesome Alternative treatment and get back to the doctor. or accept that he will die.
 
3nyaw said:
Just in case you're paying a lot of money for this.

These, among others, are standard ingredients of every vitamin supplement. quit trying to pass this off as awesome Alternative treatment and get back to the doctor. or accept that he will die.
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Just in case you're not a doctor, either show a smidgen of respect for SEOreborn's intelligence and the situation he's opened up about or shut the fuck up. Just because you can troll doesn't always mean you should.
 
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What would being a doctor change? He doesn't believe in them. I'm not trolling and he is part of the reason the person he talks about will die. i could give him the top addresses with THE world wide experts for the exact kind of health problem he's got, but he's onto something here. Surely vitamin c will heal his dad and doctors are holding this back because they are in bed with big pharma.

so you go shut the fuck up. And i don't show respect for things that don't exist. i have ANECDOTAL evidence that backs that up.
 
infoslob said:
Just in case you're not a doctor, either show a smidgen of respect for SEOreborn's intelligence and the situation he's opened up about or shut the fuck up. Just because you can troll doesn't always mean you should.
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Of course this is a delicate situation and SEOreborn is trying his best to help his dad, but eg. supplementing b complex to promote cancer remission is pretty much the same thing as trying to stop a house fire by fixing its door hinge. It just doesn't address the real issue at hand. However if you're deficient in certain vitamins then supplementing will help the overall health and sometimes mood, so aside from doing the treatment which the family opted not to pursue it's a good baseline that might bring his fathers body's faculties to a normal level in case they weren't there before.

I guess the issue are posters like Andrey that are promoting solutions akin to witch doctors in a time such practices would have to be scorned as they take advantage of a person and his family in a difficult situation.
 
My protocol may look like just a big multivitamin, but I will go through each part and explain why my dad is taking it. In case of any confusion, my aim is prolong his life and if he goes into remission, then it's a exceptional bonus
 
Andrey said:
Be realistic, stop living in your imagination guys. Follow the money. It is not hard.

What is the relationship between scientific community and corporate world? Which one is greater?
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The following documentary shows clearly the machine at work in suppressing the use of alternative treatments for cancer:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLrfNJICeM"]Cancer - The Forbidden Cures - YouTube[/ame]
 
the real reason doctors dont use alternative medicine:

its considered alternative because hospitals dont administer it. the moment it becomes standard procedure, its not alternative anymore.
 
SeoReborn said:
Here is the protocol my Dad is on:

1. Low carb high fat diet
2. Vitamin D
3. Ubiquinol
4. IP6 + inositol
5. Vitamin C
6. Chlorella vulgaris
7. Zinc
8. Beta Glucan
9. Serrapeptase
10. B17
11. B15 + mixture of minerals (magnesium, potassium etc)

Already started 1-9. 1-8 started one and half weeks ago. 10 started on Friday. 11 will come in next week.
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Why high fat?

Why not put him a on strict raw foods diet? Cruciferous vegetables, juicing, fresh fish?
 
avatar33 said:
Why high fat?

Why not put him a on strict raw foods diet? Cruciferous vegetables, juicing, fresh fish?
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I don't want to make such a big change to his diet. It took the family a lot of convincing about a diet change. I am the most health conscious, who actually goes and learn about diet etc. The rest of the family is the typical (apart from my brother), i heard it from the doctor or the TV type. I had to get them to understand why he should eat less carbs. They didn't even know that carbs such as bread turns to glucose. Nor that glucose fuels cancer growth. It was hard to even get my dad to give up on carbs. He still tries now and again to ask for carb loaded food. If I am to tell him to go raw food, and predominantly vegetables, his compliance will significantly reduce. Also he find its difficult to eat raw vegetables because of having only one molar left!

Its a balancing act of trying to give him the best while satisfying him emotionally and putting the least hindrance on his present lifestyle. Also I had to get the support of family, I can see going raw and juicing would make it much more difficult.
 
1. Low Carb High Fat Diet

Why Low Carb:

Firstly how to slow cancer down. Cut down on sugar and anything that gets converted into sugar in our digestive system.

Cancer cells can only use glucose not fat as fuel, and they starve when glucose is absent.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUlE1VHGA40"]How Do People Get Cancer | Cancer Awareness | Memorial Sloan Kettering - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS1Wv0ax3s0"]Low Carb Prevents Cancer in Mice - Global BC Health Headlines - Jun 20 - YouTube[/ame]

Why High Fat:

Glucose can be used for energy by our healthy cells and cancer cells.

So reducing glucose also reduces the fuel for your healthy cells. However, unlike cancer cells,, healthy cells can also use fat for energy, and in doing so create ketone bodies too.

They have also been shown to inhibit cancer cell growth:

"…Our present studies indicate that ketone bodies revert metabolic adaptations in pancreatic cancer cells to induce growth arrest and apoptosis. …"


The inhibition of malignant cell gro... [Aust J Exp Biol Med Sci. 1979] - PubMed - NCBI


And here:

http://www.cancerandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/2049-3002-2-18.pdf

Cancer cells cannot use ketones for fuel, so when we go on a low carb high fat diet, we are both reducing the cancer fuel which is glucose, thus starving them as well as increasing ketone bodies that is potentially toxic to them.

Case 1:

10 advanced cancer patients did a very low-carb, ketogenic diet for 28 days.

According to a PET scan, 4 of the patients continued to have progressive disease, while 5 remained stable and 1 had a partial remission.

Those who had the best metabolic response to the diet (that is, lowest insulin and highest ketone levels) saw the most improvement

Targeting insulin inhibition as a metabolic therapy in advanced cancer: A pilot
safety and feasibility dietary trial in 10 patients

Case 2:

2 girls with brain cancer went on a ketogenic diet.

After 7 days on a ketogenic diet, blood glucose levels decreased and glucose uptake at tumor site decreased by 21,8%.

One of the girls had significant improvement in symptoms and her disease did not progress for the next 12 months

Effects of a ketogenic diet on tumor metaboli... [J Am Coll Nutr. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

Case 3:

In a pilot trial of 16 advanced-stage cancer patients, a ketogenic diet did improve quality of life and stopped the progression of cancer for the 5 patients who completed the 12 week study

Effects of a ketogenic diet on the quality... [Nutr Metab (Lond). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Also animal study using mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21673053

'our findings offer a compelling preclinical illustration of the ability of a low CHO diet in not only restricting weight gain but also cancer development and progression'
 
Published as a large scale review in the Journal of Nutrition and Metabolism:

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-8-75.pdf

“Over the last years, evidence has accumulated suggesting that by systematically reducing the amount of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) one could suppress, or at least delay, the emergence of cancer, and that proliferation of already existing tumor cells could be slowed down.”

According to this review, a high-carb diet is believed to contribute to cancer in six ways:

1. Cancer cells depend almost exclusively on glucose. The mitochondria of cancer cells are dysfunctioning (because of UCP2), which prevents them from metabolizing ketone bodies or free fatty acids. Chronically elevated glucose levels feed tumors and cancer cells. Elevated insulin levels also promote the growth of tumors.

“Evidence exists that chronically elevated blood glucose, insulin and IGF1 levels facilitate tumorigenesis and worsen the outcome in cancer patients.”

The best way to fix this problem is to lower both glucose and insulin levels. This method is especially effective in people with advanced stage cancer (like Steve Jobs).

“High fat, low CHO diets aim at accounting for these metabolic alterations. Studies conducted so far have shown that such diets are safe and likely beneficial, in particular for advanced stage cancer patients.”

2. High insulin and insulin like growth factor, “resulting from chronic ingestion of CHO-rich Western diet meals”, can “directly promote tumor cell proliferation via the insulin/IGF-1 signaling pathway.” High insulin levels from a high-carb diet promote tumor growth.

3. Many cancer patients develop insulin resistance, which can make a high-carb diet deleterious to their health in numerous ways. As the researchers stated, patients may “profit from an increased protein and fat intake.”

4. High amounts of circulating glucose are extremely inflammatory. Inflammation exacerbates almost all diseases, including cancer.

5. Rodent studies have found ketone bodies to inhibit cancer cell growth. This has yet to be proven in humans – but the clinical observations are very strong.

6. A grain based diet contributes to inflammation, depletes nutrient stores, and prevents the absorption of nutrients.
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Now the Ornish diet that Steve Job used is high carb, low fat vegan diet. Ornish also believes grains is the food for healthy humans.

Smeems said:
Remind me what prematurely killed him again?
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Ornish diet maybe?
 
My grandfather passed away today from stomach cancer.

He was 84 years old, and was diagnosed with stage 4 stomach cancer with liver metastases. He had no symptoms besides general fatigue, it was found after a blood test showed a low iron level and they eventually figured out he was bleeding from the stomach cancer. Insidious fucking thing.

He had six cycles of chemotherapy (oxaliplatin), but we decided to make him fast for 48 hours before each infusion. There's some recent studies showing it reduces the side effects significantly and actually increases the effectiveness of the treatment. Typically you're told to eat as much as you can because you're probably not gonna feel like eating for the next couple of weeks.

He actually had very few side effects from the chemo, probably due to fasting. He didn't lose his hair, he didn't vomit, he didn't get nausea or mouth ulcers or anything like that. He did develop some nerve damage in his extremities that gave him pins and needles all the time. The sixth cycle really knocked him down though after his electrolytes severely went out of balance. After he recovered from all the chemo, we were told the cancer was about 90% gone which was an amazing result considering how advanced it was.

Unfortunately it only took about a year and a half for it to come back with a vengeance, and he finally passed away last night. He lasted about 2 years which is pretty darn good, with no actual problems with his stomach until the very last few days. He could still eat and be normal for the most part.

You're all talking about special diets, fasting is a contender.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGafhm1cuSI"]Dr. Valter Longo - Fasting Cycles Retard Growth of Tumors - YouTube[/ame]
 
SeoReborn said:
so then i picked 3 videos and 3 "studies" - which werent even conclusive on their own laughable terms - and became better than a doctor.
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just like that. you dont understand metabolism. quit trying to help people youre making it worse.

your daddy goes to a clinic and they blast him with a ct. because they dont have an mri. or a pet. or because hes not important enough for them to waste 10k on. how about you visit a real fuckin doctor before you go on "alternative".

the first thing every legitimate oncologist, who is interested in curing people, does, is order a full body mri scan to make sure theres no metastases. if thats the case, there is a specialist at some university, in england that would most likely be oxford, who has spent 30+ years doing nothing but treating that one particular kind of cancer. you visit that guy. if he says he cant do shit, then you can try to make his death comfortable. but he most likely wont. not because hes a money hungry bitch but because hes really fuckin good at what he does. he knows everything about that cancer. how to treat it. how to reduce potential side effects to a minimum.

he will inject a glucose derivat rich in radioactive fluor in your dad, as a marker for a pet scan. that visualizes exactly what theyre dealing with. at that stage, they will decide how likely it is to cure the cancer. they will give you accurate percentages. you can then decide what you want to do. they have machines that administer active doses of radiation only to exactly where the tumor is. you wont even feel sick.

combined radiation and chemotherapy last for 3 months. if you dont want the chemo, just fuckin say so. theyll just do radiation. that will almost never cure you, but it will potentially get you another 20 fuckin years. then on top of that, you can reduce his blood glucose, if you want to.

still troll because youd rather label me a troll than admit im right. jokes on you though.

good luck. you will need it.
 
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