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mGrunin said:
Small businesses care little about their ROI; but about getting website visitors. If their CTR's are shitty, they will end up spending more money to get the same amount of clicks that an affiliate would utilizing targets, right?

On this thread, someone posted getting several thousand clicks for like $40 using CPM. For a non-educated advertiser, if they wanted several thousand clicks, they would end up paying a lot more than $40. If the affiliate can saturate a demo with $100 spend, that advertiser would need to pay 10x more to saturate it.
Click to expand...

I still think your logic is flawed...

Let's say a certain demo has 100,000 impressions available per day on FB, and the only advertisers targeting that demo are me, and a small business.

I get 100 clicks per 1000 impressions. Due to my high CTR I pay only $0.01 per click.

The small business gets 1 click per 1000 impressions. Due to his low CTR he pays $1.00 per click.

If you do the math, I am paying $1.00 CPM, and the small business is also paying $1.00 CPM

Whether Facebook gives the impressions to me, or to the small business, Facebook is going to make $100 per day either way on that demo.

If the small business doesn't care about ROI and simply wants to get X number of visitors to his website, then yes he's going to spend more money than I will to get the same number of visitors. But that makes no difference. It WOULD make a difference if Facebook had a limit on the # of clicks available per day for a certain demo... but that's not how it works. Facebook has a limited # of impressions available; not a limited # of clicks.
 


Cataclysmic said:
I still think your logic is flawed...

Let's say a certain demo has 100,000 impressions available per day on FB, and the only advertisers targeting that demo are me, and a small business.

I get 100 clicks per 1000 impressions. Due to my high CTR I pay only $0.01 per click.

The small business gets 1 click per 1000 impressions. Due to his low CTR he pays $1.00 per click.

If you do the math, I am paying $1.00 CPM, and the small business is also paying $1.00 CPM

Whether Facebook gives the impressions to me, or to the small business, Facebook is going to make $100 per day either way on that demo.

If the small business doesn't care about ROI and simply wants to get X number of visitors to his website, then yes he's going to spend more money than I will to get the same number of visitors. But that makes no difference. It WOULD make a difference if Facebook had a limit on the # of clicks available per day for a certain demo... but that's not how it works. Facebook has a limited # of impressions available; not a limited # of clicks.
Click to expand...

Everyone cares about clicks right, not impressions. What I'm saying is that a small business will need to spend more money to get the same amount of clicks as an affiliate.

Practically everyone that I know that runs CPM hard targets heavily. So the demos are typically <500k. The small business will need to spend more money saturating that demo than an affiliate. That's what I'm getting at.

In your example, if my CTR is high enough, then after 100k impressions I might say "Alright, I squeezed out the demo, I'm seeing my conversion rate dropping, time to change targets or try new ads". For a small business, those 100k impressions won't even scratch the surface for them in getting some sales, so they will keep paying for another 100k, and another, and so on.
 
mGrunin said:
Everyone cares about clicks right, not impressions. What I'm saying is that a small business will need to spend more money to get the same amount of clicks as an affiliate.

Practically everyone that I know that runs CPM hard targets heavily. So the demos are typically <500k. The small business will need to spend more money saturating that demo than an affiliate. That's what I'm getting at.

In your example, if my CTR is high enough, then after 100k impressions I might say "Alright, I squeezed out the demo, I'm seeing my conversion rate dropping, time to change targets or try new ads". For a small business, those 100k impressions won't even scratch the surface for them in getting some sales, so they will keep paying for another 100k, and another, and so on.
Click to expand...

Ok, so let's modify the example so it fits your scenario...

Small business doesn't care about ROI so he keeps buying clicks on Facebook forever no matter how much he's spending per click.

You have a 10% CTR so when you target the demo you blow out the entire demo in one day and then your conversion rates tank so you quit after the one day.

Facebook has 100,000 impressions per day for the demo. As explained in my previous post, FB is earning the same CPM whether the impressions go to you or to the small business.... and let's say the CPM is $1.00

SCENARIO #1: If the small business is the only one targeting the demo for a week, FB will make $700 for the week.

SCENARIO #2...
Monday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day
Tuesday: You come in on Tuesday and split the impressions with the small business for that day (you spend $50 and get 5,000 clicks, and the business spends $50 and gets 50 clicks). You blow out the demo so you stop your campaign at the end of the day. Facebook still made $100 for this day.
Wednesday: Since you blew out the demo yesterday, the small business is the only one targeting the demo for the day, and spends $100.
Thursday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day
Friday: You've got some new ads and a new offer, so again you come in and split the impressions with the small business just like you did on Tuesday. You each spend $50, so FB makes $100 for the day. Again you blew out the demo today so you stop your campaign at the end of the day.
Saturday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day
Sunday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day

End result of scenario 2 - FB still made $700 for the week, even with you coming in and blowing out the demo in 1 day a couple times. So I still don't think it makes a difference. If anything, I think Facebook will make even more money when you come into the picture because you and the small business will be bidding against each other and raising the CPM rates (whether you're bidding CPM or CPC). The more advertisers there are (regardless of whether the advertisers are AMs or small businesses) the more intense the bidding wars, and the more money FB gets.

Aaaanyway, I'm sure of myself, but regardless who is right, this discussion isn't going to make you or I any more money, so I'm going to quit and won't respond again - I'll let you have the last word ;)

Back to making money...
 
Cataclysmic said:
Ok, so let's modify the example so it fits your scenario...

Small business doesn't care about ROI so he keeps buying clicks on Facebook forever no matter how much he's spending per click.

You have a 10% CTR so when you target the demo you blow out the entire demo in one day and then your conversion rates tank so you quit after the one day.

Facebook has 100,000 impressions per day for the demo. As explained in my previous post, FB is earning the same CPM whether the impressions go to you or to the small business.... and let's say the CPM is $1.00

SCENARIO #1: If the small business is the only one targeting the demo for a week, FB will make $700 for the week.

SCENARIO #2...
Monday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day
Tuesday: You come in on Tuesday and split the impressions with the small business for that day (you spend $50 and get 5,000 clicks, and the business spends $50 and gets 50 clicks). You blow out the demo so you stop your campaign at the end of the day. Facebook still made $100 for this day.
Wednesday: Since you blew out the demo yesterday, the small business is the only one targeting the demo for the day, and spends $100.
Thursday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day
Friday: You've got some new ads and a new offer, so again you come in and split the impressions with the small business just like you did on Tuesday. You each spend $50, so FB makes $100 for the day. Again you blew out the demo today so you stop your campaign at the end of the day.
Saturday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day
Sunday: The small business is the only one targeting the demo, so the small business spends $100 for the day

End result of scenario 2 - FB still made $700 for the week, even with you coming in and blowing out the demo in 1 day a couple times. So I still don't think it makes a difference. If anything, I think Facebook will make even more money when you come into the picture because you and the small business will be bidding against each other and raising the CPM rates (whether you're bidding CPM or CPC). The more advertisers there are (regardless of whether the advertisers are AMs or small businesses) the more intense the bidding wars, and the more money FB gets.

Aaaanyway, I'm sure of myself, but regardless who is right, this discussion isn't going to make you or I any more money, so I'm going to quit and won't respond again - I'll let you have the last word ;)

Back to making money...
Click to expand...

Couple flaws in the second scenario...

But like you said, enough about this conversation.
 
lowered my bid and campaign started to perform poorly. Now started bidding high again but it continues to perform poorly. How long does it take for FB ad system to understand the higher bid change?
 
vinnythejinny said:
lowered my bid and campaign started to perform poorly. Now started bidding high again but it continues to perform poorly. How long does it take for FB ad system to understand the higher bid change?
Click to expand...

how much do you lower your bids? by .01 increments?

by poorly do you mean you are getting less impressions?

how many impressions are you gettting on your original and new bids?

I notice when I lower my bids, I get fewer impressions, unless my CTR picks up
 
So I just tried direct linking to a sales page of a clickbank product with some FB ads. Got some decent CTR (0.146 and 0.121) and CPC is at around $0.19... No sales after 100 or so clicks... I think I'm going to drop it.

I want to get into the realm of dating advice. Got a great offer, made a sandwich page, got tracking202 running... But I'm having a hard time targeting. Any pointers as to what kind of Interests I could try targeting? Any strategies? Thanks in advance guys...
 
theflame said:
So I just tried direct linking to a sales page of a clickbank product with some FB ads. Got some decent CTR (0.146 and 0.121) and CPC is at around $0.19... No sales after 100 or so clicks... I think I'm going to drop it.

I want to get into the realm of dating advice. Got a great offer, made a sandwich page, got tracking202 running... But I'm having a hard time targeting. Any pointers as to what kind of Interests I could try targeting? Any strategies? Thanks in advance guys...
Click to expand...

What offer did you try?

For dating interests, try tv shows that single people watch..
 
zotium said:
What offer did you try?

For dating interests, try tv shows that single people watch..
Click to expand...

I tried an offer for a guide/training videos for a currently very competitive video game. It was really easy to target the right demo, but it's just doesn't seem to be converting. Thoughts?

Thanks for the tip on TV shows, I'll do some brainstorming and testing.
 
For anyone that created a new advertising account, and then it was disabled within 12 hours because of safety precautions. Can you PM me and let me know how things went on from there.
 
You guys are making this shit way more complicated than it has to be. Facebook, just like almost every everyone other site that sells advertising inventory is looking at CPM, it's really that simple. They make the same money regardless of your great CTR and low CPC or if it's a clueless small business with a horrible CTR who has to pay 4 times your CPC. They could give 2 fucks how fast or slow either of you saturates a market, there will always be other advertisers there paying them to reach that market. A branding advertiser will run much longer after your direct response campaign stopped converting (potentially) but they still get the same CPM day in and day out for their inventory so it really doesn't matter to them. You could also run 4 direct response offers in that same amount of time and make the the same CPM, so bottom line is always CPM for them.

The real reason Facebook doesn't like affiliates is because they all run the same bullshit offers that our found on every network with the same exact ads and the majority of the offers are sketchy. Then on top of that they use ad copy and images that are meant to catch the eye but are sometimes shocking, disturbing, sketchy etc and no publisher wants those if they can avoid it and make the same CPM.
 
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This new Broad Category Interests Targeting is a p.o.s. Why the fuck would they take 10 steps back with targeting options?
 
WayneDog said:
You guys are making this shit way more complicated than it has to be. Facebook, just like almost every everyone other site that sells advertising inventory is looking at CPM, it's really that simple. They make the same money regardless of your great CTR and low CPC or if it's a clueless small business with a horrible CTR who has to pay 4 times your CPC. They could give 2 fucks how fast or slow either of you saturates a market, there will always be other advertisers there paying them to reach that market. A branding advertiser will run much longer after your direct response campaign stopped converting (potentially) but they still get the same CPM day in and day out for their inventory so it really doesn't matter to them. You could also run 4 direct response offers in that same amount of time and make the the same CPM, so bottom line is always CPM for them.

The real reason Facebook doesn't like affiliates is because they all run the same bullshit offers that our found on every network with the same exact ads and the majority of the offers are sketchy. Then on top of that they use ad copy and images that are meant to catch the eye but are sometimes shocking, disturbing, sketchy etc and no publisher wants those if they can avoid it and make the same CPM.
Click to expand...

I still believe that Facebook does not want performance marketers on their CPM model. Does anyone remember a blog post that Facebook did about 1 year if not a bit less. They basically went on to say that they want to make the CPM model for advertisers that just want brand awareness. I remember at this time quite a few of you were complaining in this thread about it and labeling it as the death of CPM on Facebook.

Upcoming system change:
As you know, we continuously work to make our ads system more accurate in order to further improve the effectiveness of your advertising campaigns. Among other ongoing improvements, we are refining our ads delivery system to better reflect the goals of our advertisers. This change will take place over the next few weeks and, assuming current bids remain unchanged, will mean that:

  • CPC advertisers (advertisers who have chosen to bid “cost-per-click”) may receive more clicks.
  • CPM advertisers (advertisers who have chosen to bid “cost per thousand impressions”) will continue to receive impressions but may receive less clicks.
Do I need to do anything?
As a CPM advertiser, you are indicating to our system that it’s more important that your ad is seen by your audience rather than clicked i.e. you have chosen to pay for impressions, not clicks. If your main objective is to increase awareness of your business with an ad impression, there is no need for action. However, if your most important objective is to drive clicks on your ads, you should change your bids from CPM to CPC.


​
Click to expand...


http://www.allfacebook.com/facebook-cpm-advertisers-will-soon-receive-less-clicks-2010-04
 
mGrunin said:
I still believe that Facebook does not want performance marketers on their CPM model. Does anyone remember a blog post that Facebook did about 1 year if not a bit less. They basically went on to say that they want to make the CPM model for advertisers that just want brand awareness. I remember at this time quite a few of you were complaining in this thread about it and labeling it as the death of CPM on Facebook.




Facebook CPM Advertisers Will Soon Receive Less Clicks
Click to expand...

Yeah that's a year old now and so flawed it's not even funny. What were these idiots thinking even sending that out.
 
theflame said:
So I just tried direct linking to a sales page of a clickbank product with some FB ads. Got some decent CTR (0.146 and 0.121) and CPC is at around $0.19... No sales after 100 or so clicks... I think I'm going to drop it.
I want to get into the realm of dating advice. Got a great offer, made a sandwich page, got tracking202 running... But I'm having a hard time targeting. Any pointers as to what kind of Interests I could try targeting? Any strategies? Thanks in advance guys...
Click to expand...

too fucking early to kill the ad, dude.

wait till 500 clicks and use a landing page to presell.
 
Well, my days on Facebook are over - C&D. Going to have to stop my participation in this thread, and offering any help privately. GL.
 
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