Monthly Bills (splitting from efeezy's thread)
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My 3,000 square foot house is $2,200 a month. Cars are $1030. Food, Utilities, Phones, Student Loans, Childcare, et al runs us about $8000 a month.
Makes you wonder how an annual household income of 100k manages to survive ... Oh wait they don't, just keep piling up the debt.
Good thing this household of 4 makes a bit more than 100K.
But seriously - it is extremely easy to run up debt once you have kids. We do have a ton we're working to shed and some of it is absolutely ridiculous and rather unavoidable. For example:
My hubby is 6'5" and I'm 5'9" We have huge children so they have huge carseats to give us as much safety time as possible before moving them to boosters. With one child we fit into my "pay off debt quickly POS Jeep Liberty" and my hubby's midsized hybrid. The toddler sat in the middle of the backseat.
When I was 34 weeks pregnant with #2, we put the second carseat in. That meant moving one behind the driver and one behind the passenger. Unfortunately, if our children were to sit in the cars - even in their smaller, second-car carseats, my husband and I literally couldn't fit in the front seats, much less drive the car. LOL We would have had no way to drive ourselves home from the hospital.
So then it became a question of WTF do we do? Two cars get traded in for a totally unsexy but roomy basic minivan and truck so that we can fit the damn family in our vehicles. Now we have the negative equity to deal with since I had just quit my job for a year to stay home and we were on an already tight budget. That year at home alone cost us big time.
Life happens, sometimes going into debt is unavoidable, and othertimes (like the house) you make the decision to do it based on other factors.
AM is responsible for a fair share of debt in our household, too. In the heyday of the pharmacies, we got stiffed xx,xxxx in a month's payouts and lost all rx income within a month. Of my husband's buddies in that debacle, he's the only one who survived online. The others sold off all thier sites and went to work in some office job.
Those of you living low now, keep saving. I wish we had been able to. Those living large, leave some in the bank - this business goes up and down. If you haven't gone down yet, you don't know how fast and scary that can be.
Very wise words. I've seen the cycle twice in my lifetime, first with the internet boom in 99 and the mortgage brokers and RE agents throughout 2003-2006. A bunch of young people making tons of money and spending pretty much all of it AND running up debt because hell they would be making more next year right?
LOL - I might have to try that one of these days. But maybe when the kiddos are all grown up. Two young boys in a giant metal box = insanity.
Don't take this as an attack on you, your family, or your preferred type of pet.
However- I strongly feel people are insane for exactly what you discuss above.
Let me just present another option for others:
"trade" implies at the dealer- and your mention of negative equity implies a financed car- likely for longer than 36 months (given 72 is now completely 'normal'), and thus being upside down/negative equity. Solution: don't finance cars, and CERTAINLY don't finance new cars. Result: no negative equity, ever.
I can't tell you how many of my wife's friends making peanuts are driving $45k giant SUV's financed for 72 months at immediately negative ($0 down, of course) under the justification of "well we NEEDED IT FOR THE KIDS!!!1"
I'll give you they needed a big vehicle- but why not a $5,000 1994 Suburban that's in a good running shape which they could have actually easily afforded on their income?
Just my opinion, I never finance vehicles but the auto industry in this country has done a great scare tactic campaign about 'old problematic' vehicles costing a fortune to fix, and it's certainly working.
I live in the smallest house in an entry-level neighborhood ( meaning just about the minimum "safe" middle class area) in a Midwest suburb. The house payment is around 1100. I also have a wife, 2 kids, 4 pets, a garden, playground, basketball court.
I used to live in my friend's basement. That was back when, like some people here, I really just wanted to not spend money. But, I was living in a fucking basement. And honestly I was using my frugalness as a crutch to not do anything and be lazy- since I could live for years at a time without needing to make any significant money.
I'm not saying everyone should rush out and get married and all that shit. But there will come a time you will probably want your own place, maybe spend time with women, whatever.
The lowest my bills total is around $2800 a month. And that basically house, utilities, food, insurance. For an entry level house in the Midwest, no car payment, no "extras."
I used to live in my friend's basement. That was back when, like some people here, I really just wanted to not spend money. But, I was living in a fucking basement. And honestly I was using my frugalness as a crutch to not do anything and be lazy- since I could live for years at a time without needing to make any significant money.
I'm not saying everyone should rush out and get married and all that shit. But there will come a time you will probably want your own place, maybe spend time with women, whatever.
The lowest my bills total is around $2800 a month. And that basically house, utilities, food, insurance. For an entry level house in the Midwest, no car payment, no "extras."
Rent €375 (€750 split with gf)
Elec €150 pm (using too much juice than I have to because I have a greenfinger hobby)
Vodafone €30-50pm
Food €200-300pm (We cook alot and go to a restaurant(not included) once week)
Beers €100pm I'm Irish
socializing bars/clubs €300pm
€1225 = $1743 pm
Thats pretty much it. I don't have a car because I live in the center of Dublin so I can cycle anywhere I need to go. Of course I have more annual expenses like holidays and stuff but that varies every year. I have really been meaning to start making a yearly budget but have been too bitch lazy.
Elec €150 pm (using too much juice than I have to because I have a greenfinger hobby)
Vodafone €30-50pm
Food €200-300pm (We cook alot and go to a restaurant(not included) once week)
Beers €100pm I'm Irish
socializing bars/clubs €300pm
€1225 = $1743 pm
Thats pretty much it. I don't have a car because I live in the center of Dublin so I can cycle anywhere I need to go. Of course I have more annual expenses like holidays and stuff but that varies every year. I have really been meaning to start making a yearly budget but have been too bitch lazy.
a buddy of mine always spends mad monies on drinks and food when he goes out.
the last time we hit the sushi bar, we got blasted drunk on saki, japanese beer, grey goose and got filled up on their best sashimi, rolls, kobe beef etc. we met a day trader dude, his girl and some other of his friends and they kept passing all kinds of korean appetizers at us and just seemed curious if we would enjoy something we never tried before.
our bill was $450 that night and for me that was over the top. to some people it is extravagant and retarded expensive, to others it's a cheap night out (think of those mofo advertisers buying boatloads of cristal at industry parties). usually i get a bento box there and some beers for around $50 w/ tip and that is all i want.
for me, a night like this is totally worth it. we laugh about it from time to time because we were so ridiculously drunk in a restaurant. my buddy accidentally launched a can of sapporo behind the sushi bar (whole other story... the shit was hilarious). the sushi chefs there are great people and were getting buzzed with us too.
it wasn't the spending that made it great. it was more about getting the most out of life, giving yourself license to get excessive and rewarding yourself.
many of my other friends are reluctant to step foot in the place because they think it's expensive. i enjoy plenty of free and cheap activities too, but i definitely feel they are missing out on a great experience.
the last time we hit the sushi bar, we got blasted drunk on saki, japanese beer, grey goose and got filled up on their best sashimi, rolls, kobe beef etc. we met a day trader dude, his girl and some other of his friends and they kept passing all kinds of korean appetizers at us and just seemed curious if we would enjoy something we never tried before.
our bill was $450 that night and for me that was over the top. to some people it is extravagant and retarded expensive, to others it's a cheap night out (think of those mofo advertisers buying boatloads of cristal at industry parties). usually i get a bento box there and some beers for around $50 w/ tip and that is all i want.
for me, a night like this is totally worth it. we laugh about it from time to time because we were so ridiculously drunk in a restaurant. my buddy accidentally launched a can of sapporo behind the sushi bar (whole other story... the shit was hilarious). the sushi chefs there are great people and were getting buzzed with us too.
it wasn't the spending that made it great. it was more about getting the most out of life, giving yourself license to get excessive and rewarding yourself.
many of my other friends are reluctant to step foot in the place because they think it's expensive. i enjoy plenty of free and cheap activities too, but i definitely feel they are missing out on a great experience.
This is a very interesting topic. So I thought I would post about my views on money and spending.
I think you should always live below your means and always be prepared for a job loss, downturn in your business, or other significant impacts on your income or expenses.
When it comes to spending, I love spending money on things that will generally increase in value, will last several years, or are used often and are a significant improvement. House purchase, investments, computer chair, bed and computer would fall into this category. I always research/compare/plan everything I buy except for food and clothes.
I hate spending money on things that decrease in value, offer no significant improvement, or require a lot of work. So I try to spend as less as possible for things I consider in this category. Insurance I absolutely hate (but I can understand the need for car and health insurance), cars, jewelry, pets, boats, desks, expensive cell phones, and a bunch of other random useless stuff.
I think most people are financially retarded and spend their money on stupid stuff imo. I think people need to put more thought into what they spend their money on and always think long term. Managing money is a huge part of life and most people don't seem to know how to do it properly. I think it should probably be a class in high school or something, it is imo definitely more important than PE. If you just follow the formula of going to college, getting a stable job, investing, and spending less than what you earn you shouldn't have a problem being financially secure and should generate a substantially amount of money for retirement over time.
It always amazes me how stupid people can be though. I know people that can't stay employed for more than a few weeks, expect the government to pay all their bills, don't look for work when they are out of a job, spend every dollar they get within a week of getting it, or get married and divorced numerous times. On the other hand, some people are almost equally stupid who hoard all their money, are extremely cheap on everything, spend way too much time and energy looking to save a few dollars, or don't understand what they are worth to an employer and will stay at an underpaid job forever and take cuts in pay without even considering looking for a better job just because they don't want to take the risk. Also, another thing that makes me mad are people that don't understand that housing prices can go down and are trying to sell their house at 2006 levels and refuse to lower the price and are offended by low offers. I want to punch people like this in the face. They don't understand it is a marketplace and the best strategy if you want to sell in a reasonable amount of time and for the most money is to have a low offer price to creating a bidding situation so people are fighting over your property. Not listing your property at an insane level and then be all upset that nobody is interested in your house and only getting lowball offers. Punch in the face! Ok, I'm done and probably spent too much time writing this post.
I think you should always live below your means and always be prepared for a job loss, downturn in your business, or other significant impacts on your income or expenses.
When it comes to spending, I love spending money on things that will generally increase in value, will last several years, or are used often and are a significant improvement. House purchase, investments, computer chair, bed and computer would fall into this category. I always research/compare/plan everything I buy except for food and clothes.
I hate spending money on things that decrease in value, offer no significant improvement, or require a lot of work. So I try to spend as less as possible for things I consider in this category. Insurance I absolutely hate (but I can understand the need for car and health insurance), cars, jewelry, pets, boats, desks, expensive cell phones, and a bunch of other random useless stuff.
I think most people are financially retarded and spend their money on stupid stuff imo. I think people need to put more thought into what they spend their money on and always think long term. Managing money is a huge part of life and most people don't seem to know how to do it properly. I think it should probably be a class in high school or something, it is imo definitely more important than PE. If you just follow the formula of going to college, getting a stable job, investing, and spending less than what you earn you shouldn't have a problem being financially secure and should generate a substantially amount of money for retirement over time.
It always amazes me how stupid people can be though. I know people that can't stay employed for more than a few weeks, expect the government to pay all their bills, don't look for work when they are out of a job, spend every dollar they get within a week of getting it, or get married and divorced numerous times. On the other hand, some people are almost equally stupid who hoard all their money, are extremely cheap on everything, spend way too much time and energy looking to save a few dollars, or don't understand what they are worth to an employer and will stay at an underpaid job forever and take cuts in pay without even considering looking for a better job just because they don't want to take the risk. Also, another thing that makes me mad are people that don't understand that housing prices can go down and are trying to sell their house at 2006 levels and refuse to lower the price and are offended by low offers. I want to punch people like this in the face. They don't understand it is a marketplace and the best strategy if you want to sell in a reasonable amount of time and for the most money is to have a low offer price to creating a bidding situation so people are fighting over your property. Not listing your property at an insane level and then be all upset that nobody is interested in your house and only getting lowball offers. Punch in the face! Ok, I'm done and probably spent too much time writing this post.
You are doing a good job at not making any sense. Since your attention span seems to rival that of a fruit fly I'm not even going to bother, probably lost you after the first verb anyway.
I'm in Mexico so I live off of mud and tortillas. It's cheap.
Guesstimates
3 bedroom house with gated security: $300
food for 3 people: $200
electricity: $150
satellite TV: $50
internet: $30
Guesstimates
3 bedroom house with gated security: $300
food for 3 people: $200
electricity: $150
satellite TV: $50
internet: $30
Paying off the Federalis to ignore the dead hookers in your trunk when pulled over blowing a .19, priceless.
that's still fucking insane. Spending anywhere form $300-$500/day on food? You better have a hob knobber under the table at all meals!
So I just spent the past hour looking at property listings for some of the places you guys live in... fuck that. I'm never moving from the mid-west... you guys are getting raped.
If I spent $1,600/month I'd be living in a nice 6-bedroom home: executive home for lease/rent
Most of you guys get boxes.
If I spent $1,600/month I'd be living in a nice 6-bedroom home: executive home for lease/rent
Most of you guys get boxes.