Leaving America...
- Thread starter LMSInc.
- Start date
Move to Pakistan.. Especially the Pakistan/Afghanistan border very safe there and you can maybe cultivate a poppy field.
5 1/2 years here and I'm quite familiar with the ins and outs myself. You can't know the place that well and not know that Alcaidesa is simply an urbanization built around two golf courses... there are no shops here. There's no shortage of expats about, with Gib just a 20 min drive away, many people that work there make here, Sotogrande and Santa Margarita their home.
I've been all up and down the coast, inland, up to Barcelona and over to Ibiza. I am quite familiar with shopping and dining out here, in Cadiz, Jerez, Tarifa, Sevilla, La Linea, Los Barrios, Sotogrande, Estepona, San Pedro, Banus, Marbella and Malaga and can say that in all the shops and restaurants that I have frequented, maybe 10% at the most have staff that can speak English. It is not the norm.
The cost of living here is also not dramatically different from the UK. It is generally agreed that it is only about 10-15% less.
Groceries cost the same, clothing the same, automobiles cost the same, gas is only about 20% less, and the cost of housing only recently came down but was through the roof for years. Some things are cheap, like booze and cigarettes but it isn't this great utopia where everything costs dramatically less. It certainly is not "substantially cheaper" as you claim.
Why is it that most people that say living in the U.S. sucks... have never lived outside the U.S. for an extended period of time?
Sorry Brad but I beg to differ, although groceries are about on par with the UK the rent is and was (hasn't changed much actually since 2006) much much cheaper than in the UK. Property is cheaper (always has been) and interest rates are much lower in Euroland. As for eating out (proper food), cinemas, drinking, smoking, clubbing etc. you can't even start to compare. Clothes are about the same price, but heating bills are much much lower in Spain.
Again I have lived on the coast most of my life, went to school and done a lot of business here and know A LOT of people who don't speak any Spanish and manage to shop and do business very easily. Not saying its right, just that it is. And most businesses/shops DO speak English. I know Alcaidesa very well and it has been a great up-and-coming holiday home place for the past few years. I didn't say that there were any shops there. I would agree that a lot of people down in La Linea probably don't speak English, but then again I would advise the OP to not bother even visiting there (or at least not at night).
I am not saying Spain is a utopia but I would live here over any other country I have visited or lived and I do it because I like the place, if I didn't I would leave and go live somewhere else.
Again I have lived on the coast most of my life, went to school and done a lot of business here and know A LOT of people who don't speak any Spanish and manage to shop and do business very easily. Not saying its right, just that it is. And most businesses/shops DO speak English. I know Alcaidesa very well and it has been a great up-and-coming holiday home place for the past few years. I didn't say that there were any shops there. I would agree that a lot of people down in La Linea probably don't speak English, but then again I would advise the OP to not bother even visiting there (or at least not at night).
I am not saying Spain is a utopia but I would live here over any other country I have visited or lived and I do it because I like the place, if I didn't I would leave and go live somewhere else.
p.s. Cadiz, Jerez, Tarifa, Sevilla are not on the Costa del Sol (I think you are confusing CDS with Andalucia). And I agree that in those places most people do not speak English, but then again why would they as the majority of their income is not derived from tourism.
Just using them as an example of having been around the place a bit, and Sevilla and Tarifa are pretty big tourist destinations.
If you want to compare rural living in Spain to living in or around London, then of course the cost is going to be different. I don't think (nor do many of the expat forums you can read about the cost of living here) that the difference in the cost of living is much more than 10-15% on most goods and services.
Additionally, the Euro is now much stronger on the pound and dollar. When we first came here in 2004 the pound was nearly 1.45 to the Euro. Now it's practically on par. Inflation is on the rise and the cost of everything in Spain has gone up. Foreign buying power has diminished greatly.
Heating bills might not be that bad, but are you not running AC in the summer? Utilities, especially electricity, water and phone/internet aren't cheap here.
Regarding property and rental costs though, we're talking up to half of what they were in 2006 and prior. Prices were astronomical then. Villas that were going for nearly €4000 a month back then can now be had for little more than €1000. Apartments and condos that were in the €2k range can now be had for less than €1k.
My girlfriend's cousin is renting a brand new 2 bedroom and bath apartment in Duquesa for €650, that would have easily gone for €1200 or more before. A villa in Sotogrande that my ex boss was renting when we first came here in 2004 for €3600 a month was just rented for €1200. We recently had our rent lowered by €200 as well.
So, depending on where you want to live, yeah, some fantastic deals can be had. If you're buying, just make sure it's legal
I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree, your version of Spain is different from mine.
I've given thought to jumping the pond to Australia to try living there. I had 2 friend's who got married and decided to go to NZ, they did say it was hard to adjust and despite making friend's they always were 'the americans' of the group. After 2 years they decided to come back.
They're very progressive folk, vegitarian, rock climbers, he works in architecture and urban planning. Seems like the adjustment would have been easier for them than the typical 'nascar' profile of Americans but they came across that typical low opinion.
On another note, everyone bitching about the corporations choosing what music you listen to, what "food" you eat, etc. Why don't you take steps in your life to opt-out of that cycle? i.e. turn of the tv and the radio, try sustainable living through urban gardening, move perhaps to another region that fits your interests, etc. where you don't have to worry about prejudice.
I've lived all over the western U.S. and am in the Northwest now. I love it here, basically constant spring time temps, plenty of night life, great food, great beer, great wine, plenty of outdoorsy stuff and plenty of things to do in the city.
In my experience the changes you want to see in your surroundings have to start in your state of mind. Don't fall into the 'grass is always greener' mentality. I mean, granted, travel, explore, live in every country you can. But don't think simply moving somewhere else is necessarily going to be better, the only guarantee you have is that it will be different.
And as far as 'shit hitting the fan' factor goes, I think we have a lot less to worry about here than most other places. But I have a stock pile of ammo ready to go just in case.
They're very progressive folk, vegitarian, rock climbers, he works in architecture and urban planning. Seems like the adjustment would have been easier for them than the typical 'nascar' profile of Americans but they came across that typical low opinion.
On another note, everyone bitching about the corporations choosing what music you listen to, what "food" you eat, etc. Why don't you take steps in your life to opt-out of that cycle? i.e. turn of the tv and the radio, try sustainable living through urban gardening, move perhaps to another region that fits your interests, etc. where you don't have to worry about prejudice.
I've lived all over the western U.S. and am in the Northwest now. I love it here, basically constant spring time temps, plenty of night life, great food, great beer, great wine, plenty of outdoorsy stuff and plenty of things to do in the city.
In my experience the changes you want to see in your surroundings have to start in your state of mind. Don't fall into the 'grass is always greener' mentality. I mean, granted, travel, explore, live in every country you can. But don't think simply moving somewhere else is necessarily going to be better, the only guarantee you have is that it will be different.
And as far as 'shit hitting the fan' factor goes, I think we have a lot less to worry about here than most other places. But I have a stock pile of ammo ready to go just in case.
sweden:
climate : freezing and bland. you need the northen parts to ski regularly, but its always dark outside in the winter. in the south its chilly and wet. Think seattle/chicago. Summers can be ok, but also usually wet.
social : clubscene good, alcohole soaked. music world tours dont always make a stop. you need a big city find entertainment on weekdays or something else than danceclubs and sportbars.
police : be polite and youre fine. narcotics is a CRIME. so is id forgery. internetcrimes are way backlogged (no one ever charged for nonspam blackhat activity). firearms requires licenses and are heavily regulated.
politics : 1 out of 9 is a first or second gen immigrant, muslims and from the balkan war. trackability of individuals is on the rise (as everywhere), piratebay being swedish keeps the filesharingdiscussion at least a monthly event in media last few years.
government : you probably will have a hard time becoming a citizen w/o a good reason. create a company and hire yourself maybe, dunno. cost of medical treatment is very low, standard is not the best (hardly worst either). you always wait 4 hours if your life is not in danger or you have an appointment. red tape is livable.
taxes : standard company, 50% in the end (bottomline before taxes -> cash in your hand) what you take out as salary, and it seems that is what they aim for whatever way the money leaves. laws against personal businesses being "overfunded" (eg use the cash you have or take it out someway, or go with another form of business). you will want to discuss this with someone far more knowledgable than me.
other pros: low crimerate, especially violent crime you cant forsee. what i mean by that is most violence is alcohole related, not "carjacking" kinda stuff (ofc dont be an idiot, but its def. lower than most places). datingsites are in widespread use, you should be able get a social circle if you want from someone there.
local affiliatemarket is underdeveloped (no rebills for example) and very small, but thats an extra 4 million ppl on facebook if you learn the language. Just last months (november i think) seeing weightloss blogs advertized on major mediaoutlets (the colonclenser + acai kind), international offers.
other cons: kinda boring. kinda politicized. kinda like the us. kinda like the rest of the western hemisphere. its not sunny all the time and you wont be able to afford a maid.
climate : freezing and bland. you need the northen parts to ski regularly, but its always dark outside in the winter. in the south its chilly and wet. Think seattle/chicago. Summers can be ok, but also usually wet.
social : clubscene good, alcohole soaked. music world tours dont always make a stop. you need a big city find entertainment on weekdays or something else than danceclubs and sportbars.
police : be polite and youre fine. narcotics is a CRIME. so is id forgery. internetcrimes are way backlogged (no one ever charged for nonspam blackhat activity). firearms requires licenses and are heavily regulated.
politics : 1 out of 9 is a first or second gen immigrant, muslims and from the balkan war. trackability of individuals is on the rise (as everywhere), piratebay being swedish keeps the filesharingdiscussion at least a monthly event in media last few years.
government : you probably will have a hard time becoming a citizen w/o a good reason. create a company and hire yourself maybe, dunno. cost of medical treatment is very low, standard is not the best (hardly worst either). you always wait 4 hours if your life is not in danger or you have an appointment. red tape is livable.
taxes : standard company, 50% in the end (bottomline before taxes -> cash in your hand) what you take out as salary, and it seems that is what they aim for whatever way the money leaves. laws against personal businesses being "overfunded" (eg use the cash you have or take it out someway, or go with another form of business). you will want to discuss this with someone far more knowledgable than me.
other pros: low crimerate, especially violent crime you cant forsee. what i mean by that is most violence is alcohole related, not "carjacking" kinda stuff (ofc dont be an idiot, but its def. lower than most places). datingsites are in widespread use, you should be able get a social circle if you want from someone there.
local affiliatemarket is underdeveloped (no rebills for example) and very small, but thats an extra 4 million ppl on facebook if you learn the language. Just last months (november i think) seeing weightloss blogs advertized on major mediaoutlets (the colonclenser + acai kind), international offers.
other cons: kinda boring. kinda politicized. kinda like the us. kinda like the rest of the western hemisphere. its not sunny all the time and you wont be able to afford a maid.
I hope to be in the EU by October, probably in Spain. I'll keep the company as US since the system is so strange over there, but get the wife a gig so we can get into the healthcare system. I don't plan on buying property, but will have to look into that 330 day rule to save on some sort of taxes. Either way, it's worth trying out.
Your wife's "gig" is going to be much more tough than you imagine, especially in Spain, at the moment.
Yes 070707 is right, if you need to work then Spain is not a place I would go to, unemployment is at ridiculous levels. The level of unemployment of the expats would be even higher and I would not like to even hazard a guess at the % but its definitely at nose-bleed levels.
virtual gig is somewhat lined up, Spain is just the choice because I'd like to live there. She has also added UK to the list, which I wouldn't mind since I'm a huge footy fan, but would go against the basis of saving more coin, but then again, you only live once.
Will know more in a few months.
Will know more in a few months.