Leaving America...

[nickster]

That's slight misrepresentation of the truth. Very few Spanish speak English here, so if you actually want to interact with Spaniards and integrate yourself into the society, you better learn Spanish. Otherwise you're limited to the British expat community.

Not really true, most Spaniards (in business and shops) speak English. What I meant was that you can get by without really speaking Spanish at all, not that that is either good or smart. Making friends with Spaniards would involve learning Spanish, but there are a huge number of different nationalities living here.

I have lived here for over 27 years and speak fluent Spanish, but that's just me. I know many who speak less than 10 words who have lived here that long and they are business owners and live a productive life with lots of friends. Not saying that's good, its just a fact.

 

[Mikesev]

Another option not mentioned is the Old Eastern Block countries, in the north you have Latvia, Lithuania or south Croatia, Serbia. Reasons:

INSANELY hot women.
They don't have the old Europe snobbishness towards Americans (or Brits).
They're happy to speak English, although the standard might not be great.
Beautiful countries (Montenegro is one of the most unspoiled and beautiful coasts in Europe)
Cheap housing
Pro-business governments in many places, often with special foreign tax regimes to encourage investment
Well educated workforces

Once my business grows to a sufficient size I'll be considering moving it to Serbia.

 

[-God-]

We have pretty much taxes on everything in Sweden. We used to have a wealth-tax. So if you basically had money on your bank, they would make you pay taxes for it. Oh and if the social democrats gets into the government this -- then they'll re-introduce it.

We also used to have an inheritance-tax. So if your parents died and had left something for you, then you had to pay taxes on it. That one is also gone right now, but you never know with the socialists.

I think Sweden got the highest taxes in the whole world. (about 90% If you're buying liquor and gasoline for your money.)


Yeah I've heard Canada is basically an americanized version of Sweden, right?

But get me a job and I'll be over there in May, hahaga.

I thought Sweden was worse than the UK, seems i'm wrong. We get over 90% tax on fuel at £1.10+ per litre, fags are £6.50, a pint is about £3.50. We do have inheritence tax, 40%. When you inherit a property for instance, you have to either pay the government 40% of it's worth in whatever you can scrape together, or sell it and then igve them 40%.

We're taxed when we buy property, taxed when we sell it. Oh and we taxed on interest in bank accounts, can't believe Sweden doesn't tax that.

Also 90% of stuff we buy has "value added tax" which is 17.5% of everything you spend. Yes spend. After you've already paid tax! The Uk makes me wan to become a terrorist. Hopefully some jumped up beaurocartic twat will flag this on their big brother filter.

All our email is read as well... I hate the UK sooooo much words could never express it.

Oh, after the "banking fiasco" they decided to hit banker bonuses, they're currently taxed on those bonuses at around 98% i'm led to believe...

 

[ImagesAndWords]

Sounds like this video is for the OP..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6geaGN82z0I"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

As for me, I'm going the opposite route this summer and moving back to the US from Norway.

I love Norway and all and in certain areas it's as good or better than the US to live in, BUT entrepreneurship here really isn't encouraged. The government want the sheeple to stick to a sheeple mentality. Having too much money is looked down upon by the majority here, and I think you will find that in other European countries as well.

Taxes? Well they're high here and so I will save money going to the US taxes, which is pretty exciting. Besides, I believe with some creative (yet legal) business accounting and managing of your assets, you can end up paying less than you really have to as an individual.

 

[evelynds]

If you try the Spanish Costa's (especially Costa Del Sol) you will find that 99.9% of people speak English. Standard of living is high and cost of living is relatively low (compared to UK, Ireland, Swiss, Monaco etc.). But don't expect to get a job Amazing party lifestyle in the holidays too.

a lot of bullshit? how is spain's 40%+ TTB "relatively low" compared to switzerland's 7-12% or monaco's ZERO?

some people write stuff in here they haven't even the faintest experience with.

everyone - consult experienced, well-referenced fiscalists. don't listen to anyone on wf

ps: reading all three pages in this thread.... many many facts are being contradicted! advice from those already nationalized at offshore nations were true, whereas 'observers' posting about places generally come with dangerously irresponsible statements

 

[harrymouni]

The UK is next for this kind of thing ... but this is getting off-topic.


Italia!!

nah, netherlands or sweden next. slowly watch as europe is fucked in the ass by muslims, with the PC faggot brigade providing the lube.

i'll march 'em to the gas chambers myself

 

[nickster]

a lot of bullshit? how is spain's 40%+ TTB "relatively low" compared to switzerland's 7-12% or monaco's ZERO?

some people write stuff in here they haven't even the faintest experience with.

everyone - consult experienced, well-referenced fiscalists. don't listen to anyone on wf

ps: reading all three pages in this thread.... many many facts are being contradicted! advice from those already nationalized at offshore nations were true, whereas 'observers' posting about places generally come with dangerously irresponsible statements

Sorry but I think you have problems distinguishing between cost of living and income taxes, two separate things (But if you make under 100K in Spain and pay 40% tax then you would still be better off than earning the same amount in Switzerland and pay 7-12% as the spending power in Spain is significantly higher than that of Switzerland anyway).

Also to be clear I am a qualified financial advisor who knows A LOT about international taxation, so maybe it is you who don't have the faintest experience.

And I wasn't talking about tax as the OP was not asking about making money or taxation in any of their posts they only asked about moving to another country and as I have lived in several different countries (UK, Ireland, Spain & Bulgaria) I gave my opinion based on experience and background knowledge.

Sorry but your post was major fail in every respect.

 

[b_sun]

 

[070707]

I live in Spain 6 months a year and there is no fucking way in hell I would move my Business to the Spanish system.

PS. FatBat - I'll be in Cadiz in mid-March, nearby?

Sorry but I think you have problems distinguishing between cost of living and income taxes, two separate things (But if you make under 100K in Spain and pay 40% tax then you would still be better off than earning the same amount in Switzerland and pay 7-12% as the spending power in Spain is significantly higher than that of Switzerland anyway).

Also to be clear I am a qualified financial advisor who knows A LOT about international taxation, so maybe it is you who don't have the faintest experience.

And I wasn't talking about tax as the OP was not asking about making money or taxation in any of their posts they only asked about moving to another country and as I have lived in several different countries (UK, Ireland, Spain & Bulgaria) I gave my opinion based on experience and background knowledge.

Sorry but your post was major fail in every respect.

 

[popeye]

I don't think anyone is basing their decision on what obama is doing. I highly doubt any cares that much. For most like my self its because I don't want to be one of them poor bastards that spends his whole life living in one country. I want the experience and adventure of having to learn other cultures and languages.

Experincing other countrys and such has always been interesting to me. Then when I did "experience" other countries, I realized how much of a fuckin shit hole they are. I really had a feeling of not being totally "free" in other countries. So many rules, cameras etc. I was so glad to get back to the USA. Everywhere else is nice to visit and fuck the natives but the good ole USA is home.

 

[Adam~]

I live in Spain 6 months a year and there is no fucking way in hell I would move my Business to the Spanish system.

PS. FatBat - I'll be in Cadiz in mid-March, nearby?

That's awsome.

I'm from the UK but been travelling for a LONG time and trying to settle down a bit more...

Have considered spending 6 months in one country and 6 in another (effectively having a base somewhere and then spending six months in another country of my choosing).

How do you find it? Is it like effectively leading two separate 'lives' and how old are you?

 

[Fatbat]

Not really true, most Spaniards (in business and shops) speak English.

I don't know where in Spain you live, but that is not true for anywhere on the Costa del Sol between Cadiz and Malaga. Most Spaniards DO NOT speak English, even those in businesses and shops.

The cost of living here isn't that low and your buying power is not that much greater compared to the rest of Europe.

One saving grace is that the cost of property for purchase or rental has plummeted in recent years.

070707, I'm in Alcaidesa, an urbanization between Gib and Sotogrande. Give me a shout and we can meet for a beer somewhere.

 

[ecapsllud]

Go to FUCKING in Austria

Or KISSING in Germany

 

[evelynds]

Sorry but I think you have problems distinguishing between cost of living and income taxes, two separate things (But if you make under 100K in Spain and pay 40% tax then you would still be better off than earning the same amount in Switzerland and pay 7-12% as the spending power in Spain is significantly higher than that of Switzerland anyway).

i heard the cost of living in Botswana is even more fantastic... earn under 20k while chewing filet mignon every day. great wildlife and natural scenery too!

seriously? we're on a forum with people wanting to earn+keep $1m+ USD. why would we want anything to do with 'cost of living' from a $30k GDP perspective?

one thing i've observed with real-life friends seeking offshore cost of living savings is that eventually, for whatever reason... they end up attuning to their new CoL in such a way that they could no longer survive in a develop nation, even if they wanted. because......... they have become complacent with easygoing 3rd world CoL.

i'm not saying Spain is a 3rd world country to any extent. but its GDP lies a good 20% below the US. and 30-50% below several NW-EU locs. someone attuned to an 'above avg/high' salary in a nation where GDP -to begin with- lies 20% below their original host; one-two streaks of bad luck and this person will lose the ability to survive anywhere better because on a world scale he has only fallen down. i've noticed this especially with people residing 'like kings' (CoL-wise) in thai/ph... but unable to pay a restaurant tab for a group when visiting back in NL.

Spain is not a /bad/ choice up to $100k and slightly above. but i don't believe many of us think $100k is the top. when the goal reaches $1m+, mere CoL savings will no longer justify losing $400k+ pure cash to tax.

of course i haven't researched internal spanish tax procedures. despite most of NW-EU having been locked down, it may very well be possible to build a fiscal-friendly structure, even above $100k, from within spanish soil. in that case call me an idiot =p

 

[evelynds]

How do you find it? Is it like effectively leading two separate 'lives' and how old are you?

i'm picking this up shortly. but i have no wife/kids so that will make it easier.

most people run into issues because they can't completely abandon their original host. also note; your original host may require you to forfeit national possessions before accepting your choice of offshore taxation by dual-residence. among others, i know some nations require you to sell your house, drop any rented properties, cancel some seemingly offtopic stuff like gym memberships, concert hall subscriptions etc. effectively they want legal evidence that you truly have no material neither social retention to the country before they will 'let you go'.

i know the uk does this. nl does too. inform at your irs

last..... it becomes easiest when people proactively try to mingle and integrate with their new host. get to know folks, make friends everywhere, get a girl..... it'll make stuff a lot more bearable.

several weeks ago a dutch businessman got nailed for several $m in unpaid income tax. he claimed to be a resident of another country (6/6 month setup), but everyone saw him at cafe's in amsterdam every week. basically, he could not cut the social ties. in the end people figured his whole scheme out and now he's charged. [he hired a condo somewhere in the city and let a random person live there 'for anti-squatting purposes'. of course, this is the address he presented to dutch irs to 'prove' he lived here only 6 months. the other 6 months he'd supposedly live offshore, however he was actually living in a mansion in another dutch city not too far from the same apartment!!] tragic story all in all....... but it shows why irs's will make people drop social ties in order to accept their new legality.

 

[nickster]

Evelynds, for someone who keeps telling people not to listen to people on the WF regarding tax issues you are certainly spouting off like you know your stuff.

If you are earning $1m+ then you structure your earnings in such a way as to be able to live where you want and pay the minimum of tax (legal proper corporate structures etc.), if you aren't then you are a fool. And not to be rude, but the fact that you may want to make $1M+ per year doesn't change the fact that you probably aren't and probably wont be (statistically speaking). So structuring your whole lifestyle around that before getting close to it is not a smart thing to do.

FatBat - 27 years on the Costa del Sol, so I pretty much know the place inside and out and you are definitely wrong regarding businesses and shops not speaking English. You would be hard pushed to find a shop in Torremolinos, Benalmadena, Fuengirola and Marbella who don't have some English speaking staff. Alcaidesa is relative new to expats so there would probably be less English speakers there, but that certainly is not true of the majority of the Coast. Also cost of living is substantially lower than UK, Monaco & Switzerland if you take into account the factors that actually involve cost of living i.e. food, medicine, rent/mortgage etc. That is why people manage to live in Spain on wages that are less than half that of the UK and probably a quarter that of Monaco & Switzerland (at least).

I am sorry but I will again say that no where has the OP asked about tax or earning money, so I am only giving my opinion based on lifestyle (which is what he asked about). Maybe he doesn't have short term aspirations of becoming a multi-millionaire in the next couple of years. Let me ask you, out of all the members (thousands) on WF how many do you actually believe are millionaires and how many are likely to become? Don't get me wrong, I believe in making your mark and reaching as high as you can in this life, but make some serious cash first before looking at protecting your assets, otherwise you'll just end up living somewhere you don't want to be and wasting money trying to protect something you don't have.

Again if you are earning $1M+ and are paying full top rate income tax on the income from your activities then you are a fool who needs to see an international tax consultant and structure yourself like you were a proper business (corporations etc.). If you are not Evelynds then don't bother trying to give advice on matters that you know nothing about.

Also if you think that there is any comparison between living in Spain and Botswana then you seriously need to get out and see a bit more of the world.

 

[gutterseo]

I'm in Dublin. It's really not a bad place and rental prices have dropped considerably since the recession. check out Daft.ie : Property for Sale in Ireland, Overseas Property, Property to Let, Houses to Rent, Accommodation Sharing, Parking Spaces in Ireland (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Belfast) it's probly the biggest/best rental site for Dublin. If you wanna live in around the city center and not in a dodgy area check out Dublin 2,4,6 or 7.

I also think Irish people are generally more hospital than a lot of other european countries towards foreigners. Send me a pm if you want more info.

 

[evelynds]

@nickster;

# for individuals and SMB from up to 2~5m, NW-EU is pretty much locked down in terms of SOLID offshore solutions. solutions will be offered, but either you or your agent will constantly have to watch their back. since '08~10, most/all traditional offshoring while physically remaining as citizen/corp of solemnly the most developed nations has disappeared.

# S(E)-EU may still have loopholes. either because the governments don't possess [or even prioritize] large fiscal manpower OR they operate retrospectively rather than proactive. the latter is a huge thing. a lot of governments just don't bother with a citizen until said person arouses reasonable interest. i know in many many countries, a person with no otherwise registered income earning cash online can just make money, wire it to his country by fairly simple methods and as long as he doesn't pull up in a mercedes s-class he could live to 99 doing just that. thing is -- PROACTIVE governments won't allow this. you are a citizen without registered income/your registered income has halted but 6 months later you still happily pay rent and buy 2 breads a week? as far as a proactive irs is concerned, if you're not on welfare by then, this should not be possible. a person with legitimately 0 income and no welfare can only be dead- after all. he shouldn't be alive, eating and paying rent. from there, a proactive govt will take punishment very far.

# considering i've hired spanish people at $800/mo for a decent time, knowing for a fact they don't declare a dime of it, and still walk free today, i must assume spain is among the nations not proactively investigating its citizen's low-scale tax duties.

# i mention $1m because honestly i don't see the point in being an entrepreneur if it's not to realize higher objectives. if someone aspires $100k they're better off as a 9-5 employed expert [serious!].

# ps; $1k/mo is sufficient to fund outter-city cost of living in spain. perhaps from such viewpoints, i can see why someone considers $1m as ambiguous. coming from nw-eu, i'd probably react similarly to persons claiming to aspire $10m or a luxembourgh business owner hearing $100 [similarly, $10 would appear realistically approachable there] this is the PPP issue i'm also stressing when people seem to over-prioritize lowered cost of living as motive when planning relocation.

Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men -- Goethe.

 

[__Leo__]

Why make such a drastic move? You need a long vacation to chill and do some rethinking.
Off topic, Israel is a good place to hang out with beautiful women. Travel round the world, see great places, fuck bitches and get back home.

I dont know your story, but are you really planning to leave your family behind?

 

[Andrew Scherer]

Think about Mexico, it's pretty cheap here.

Except the drug violence it's alright. This happend in my little town a couple days ago.