Investing/Buying Established Websites
- Thread starter Spliffic
- Start date
Thanks for the replies guys, some really useful info here (minus the Russkiy thread crap lol). Flippa does have some diamonds in the rough there, but there is alot of garbage to sift through. A non-compete is a great idea if you're spending that kind of dough though, as well as seeing their GA for yourself as opposed to screenshots.
Will keep sifting through the shit I guess, and will probably take the plunge soon. Cheers boys and thanks again.
Will keep sifting through the shit I guess, and will probably take the plunge soon. Cheers boys and thanks again.
Have been doing this exact thing for some time (with the biggest purchase being low € xxx.xxx), so thought I'd chime in.
Some things I have come to require:
- Stable/growing earnings for at least 1 year
- Minimum site profit of € 750 monthly (below this the effort required to maintain/increase revenue is not in proportion, even with outsourcing)
- Stable/growing niche and not a 1-2 month thing (e.g. not sites for the world cup 2010 only, no matter the revenues)
- Simple enough to maintain -> outsource the generic maintenance/operational stuff
You will kill yourself working on 20 sites at a time, even if the time/revenue is good
- I typically arrange to meet with the persons selling the site in person.
You can then demand to see anything you would like about the site, as well as get a general idea of why the counterparty is selling etc.
(This has saved me a lot of money, although I don't think this is really practical to do in the US for example)
- Use some kind of contract on every deal (and escrow type service on bigger deals) to at least discourage scammers.
Hopefully my experience is useful to you, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
Disclaimer:
I have only bought sites within the country I live in (Western Europe) and don't know how well my experience translates to the US/Int market.
Some things I have come to require:
- Stable/growing earnings for at least 1 year
- Minimum site profit of € 750 monthly (below this the effort required to maintain/increase revenue is not in proportion, even with outsourcing)
- Stable/growing niche and not a 1-2 month thing (e.g. not sites for the world cup 2010 only, no matter the revenues)
- Simple enough to maintain -> outsource the generic maintenance/operational stuff
You will kill yourself working on 20 sites at a time, even if the time/revenue is good
- I typically arrange to meet with the persons selling the site in person.
You can then demand to see anything you would like about the site, as well as get a general idea of why the counterparty is selling etc.
(This has saved me a lot of money, although I don't think this is really practical to do in the US for example)
- Use some kind of contract on every deal (and escrow type service on bigger deals) to at least discourage scammers.
Hopefully my experience is useful to you, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
Disclaimer:
I have only bought sites within the country I live in (Western Europe) and don't know how well my experience translates to the US/Int market.
Damn, that criteria must rule out 95-99% of the sites you look at buying, how many sites to you purchase a year, more than 1 or 2?
Flippa is a good place to find sites (I've purchased sites from there myself -- up to $30k) but as you mentioned, it can become a bidding war and result in not so great a deal.
The best way is to start searching around the web and contact site owners who have older sites (5+ yrs) good rankings but have seem to neglect them (not updated in awhile, old design, etc) and just make an offer -- and avoid the bidding war game altogether.
This was posted 5 yrs ago but is still highly relevant today
I've witnessed people buying old, established websites for just $7k and getting them ranked for extremely competitive $$$ terms (like 200 million results for one short keyword)
The key is when you do buy an old site, don't change too much at first and always leave all the old content -- just keep adding new pages and related content that you want to rank for.
The best way is to start searching around the web and contact site owners who have older sites (5+ yrs) good rankings but have seem to neglect them (not updated in awhile, old design, etc) and just make an offer -- and avoid the bidding war game altogether.
This was posted 5 yrs ago but is still highly relevant today
I've witnessed people buying old, established websites for just $7k and getting them ranked for extremely competitive $$$ terms (like 200 million results for one short keyword)
The key is when you do buy an old site, don't change too much at first and always leave all the old content -- just keep adding new pages and related content that you want to rank for.
This is a good advice, however, I have sold sites by email requests for more than I would have gotten by putting them on flippa. It is also more complicated, I emailed a dozen of people in my niche trying to buy older sites, but the ones ranking higher want an insane amount while the ones who dont care and have theirs burried deep inside never respond.
However, it's worth trying as you may actually find a really really good deal this way. Need a tool that does all that.
Absolutely it's more complicated. But you will most always find a better deal when doing this extra work that most people are not willing to do.
I've sold domains to people who have randomly contacted me. I was very happy with their price and it was easier than listing it on Flippa and dealing with a bunch of stupid questions and tire kickers wasting my time.
I've sold domains to people who have randomly contacted me. I was very happy with their price and it was easier than listing it on Flippa and dealing with a bunch of stupid questions and tire kickers wasting my time.
Is there a lot of interest in purchasing affiliate websites that have been #1 for years with a consistent traffic / revenue source?
I suppose there are buyers, but where are they? I'm not going to post my website for sale all over the forums as that is way tooo risky.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
I suppose there are buyers, but where are they? I'm not going to post my website for sale all over the forums as that is way tooo risky.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Check where the backlinks are coming from. It can be hard to tell, but you don't want to spend a ton of money on a site that is ranking well that is only ranking well thanks to links on sites that the owner of the site in question owns. Does that make sense? I'm real tired.
Let's say I sell an affiliate site making 1k a month selling underwear. The site is ranking #1 for mens underwear or some shit. But most of the authority inbound links are from my network of other high ranking clothing sites. So, essentially, as soon as I sell you the site, I just build a new similar site, and switch all the links to point to my new site, most likely destroying the rank of your new site. A non-compete can help here.
Let's say I sell an affiliate site making 1k a month selling underwear. The site is ranking #1 for mens underwear or some shit. But most of the authority inbound links are from my network of other high ranking clothing sites. So, essentially, as soon as I sell you the site, I just build a new similar site, and switch all the links to point to my new site, most likely destroying the rank of your new site. A non-compete can help here.
Haven't read all the responses... and will leave a more detailed answer later.
But, as kingofsp said, you need to get your legal game proper when buying bigger sites. There are a lot of guys ESPECIALLY on places like Flippa that literally build a site, rank for a keyword, sell for whatever amount, switch out links and you'll steadily fall and they'll build and rank another site for the same keyword that in a month will be #1 again.
...Good guys will switch IP's so you can't reverse check them and get new usernames and all that.
Actually getting things signed like a non-compete will usually scare off most of the guys that do this shit.
But, as kingofsp said, you need to get your legal game proper when buying bigger sites. There are a lot of guys ESPECIALLY on places like Flippa that literally build a site, rank for a keyword, sell for whatever amount, switch out links and you'll steadily fall and they'll build and rank another site for the same keyword that in a month will be #1 again.
...Good guys will switch IP's so you can't reverse check them and get new usernames and all that.
Actually getting things signed like a non-compete will usually scare off most of the guys that do this shit.
A non-compete seems like the way to go these days. Do you guys know what it costs to draft something like that up with a lawyer?
Buying a website is definitely not something to rush into. But you have to be motivated enough (and have the balls) to pull the trigger though. I'm looing at a 20K site right now that I have quite a bit of interest in, but don't quite have enough knowledge to complete the purchase.
Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply, this is great stuff and am looking forward to hearing more responses. I repped all those who's posts I found especially helpful. Cheers.
Buying a website is definitely not something to rush into. But you have to be motivated enough (and have the balls) to pull the trigger though. I'm looing at a 20K site right now that I have quite a bit of interest in, but don't quite have enough knowledge to complete the purchase.
Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply, this is great stuff and am looking forward to hearing more responses. I repped all those who's posts I found especially helpful. Cheers.
Get on the phone with them, it's another step to judging their background and integrity. Also make sure they have a legit reason to sell, people with no real reason to sell are generally the kind of people FTC-Hater is talking about.
Having them sign a non-compete only means you have something to back yourself up with in case they breach it, in court. And even then you've got money, time, and headaches to go through to collect on whatever losses they've caused you by breaching the non-compete.
I think the sites that are really worth buying aren't readily for sale.
I think the sites that are really worth buying aren't readily for sale.
The cost of going to trial over a breach of a non-compete will likely cost you as much as you paid for the site.
That's true, but I've never planned on enforcing the non-compete. It's only to dissuade sellers from cloning the site and switching out all the backlinks they control to their new site. I doubt I would ever actually go to court on it because it's too much of a headache, but just having one in place can do the trick most of the time.
That's the problem though. Most sellers with big sites are aware of this so signing a non-compete won't deter them from cloning another site.
It worked on me awhile back when I sold an EDU site for mid $xx,xxx. Ever since then I've used the same tactic as a buyer and I've never had a problem. Could be a coincidence but I figure it doesn't hurt to get one either way. Most people assume you'll go to court for the right amount of money. We're not talking about $500 sites here...
Yeah, I'm just making the point from my experience that a non-compete really isn't going to save you if the owner decides to clone.
When I purchased a site for $30k and had them sign a non-compete, I found out later they made an almost exact copy. I looked into bringing them to court in my state but the legal fees didn't make it worth while.