Domains stuff

[Nate]

yes, I believe all that stands to reason, till proven wrong of course.
It gave me some ideas though, one way or the other so it was a good exercize

Just a heads up...Personally I would be hesitant in spending much time and money developing mastercardguide. I have had a company send a C&D letter demanding that I turn over domains with their trademark. Luckily they were just parked and I had only the registration fee's in them.

 

[gnomic]

Is it "Master CardGuide" or "MasterCard Guide"? The master guide for cards or the guide for MasterCard cards ?. Make a blog covering all or any kinds of cards. Examples:
http://mastercardguide.com/<baseball>
http://mastercardguide.com/<magicthegathering>
http://mastercardguide.com/<seo'ed keyword here>
etc...

 

[SeoDave]

HalfPC,
Welcome to the domaining world! I just got into domaining recently myself, and I believe you are asking many of the correct questions. Also: don't be afraid to trust your instincts and purchase a domain that you think has potential even if others don't necessarily see it. What do you have to lose? $7? What if it sells for $100? How about $5K? More? The point is that your investment is minimal if you think you've found a quality domain or niche to invest in.

As others have stated, don't jump in headfirst, but test the waters slowly. I started off very excited and with more money (and credit) than was good for me. I bought domains second hand cheaply and in bulk as well as reg'ing a few myself. I didn't form a plan for each domain (mistake #1: DO MORE RESEARCH and ALWAYS have an exit strategy) and ended up with quite a few domains that are worthless and won't resell for reg-fee. Another thought is renewals. Remember that if you reg a bunch of domains for 1 year and you don't have a plan for them, you'll end up with a bunch of unused domains at the end of the year that you have to renew or let go of. Then you'll have either dropped a lot of money that is now wasted, or you'll have to drop a lot more down to keep your domains while you still haven't shown a profit. ALWAYS have a plan in mind when starting ANY type of business investment. I myself bought ~1K domains and only later realized that this was a 7K a year investment if I renew these domains. Ooooops.

Developing vs Reselling: domains that might not sell for reg-fee can often earn a lot more than reg-fee with a 5 page site with PPC slapped up on them. These sites (once you're good at setting them up, or you outsource) can be put up in a day (often many in a day). Don't be afraid to buy a domain that no one else wants if you have an idea for monetizing it. Just cause somone else doesn't want YourCardCredit.com for $5K doesn't mean you can't make $5k A YEAR off of the site if you develop it correctly.

Don't overextend yourself. I made this mistake as part of my earlier mistake. If you buy 1k domains over the course of a month, you're not gonna have enough time or resources to develop them all before 1 year passes. If you are buying 2nd hand, you might not even have that full year. Always be sure to have an idea for your domain/site and know how long that idea will take you to implement. 2 good ideas that you work on to the finish and monetize correctly are worth more than 10K ideas that you tossed $7 and 30 minutes at and then never did anything with.

There's more and I'll get to it later, but I'm a little busy right now. This should be able to add a little more fodder to the fire of this discussion however.

PS: You have a distinct advantage over American domainers by knowing that people in the UK may type in different searches that wouldn't make sense to us here in the US. For instance the "card credit" vs "credit card" thing. If a UK domain with "card credit" is highly searched in the UK then don't be afraid to buy that domain and geo-target. You might stumble across a goldmine that an American wouldn't have found because our minds don't work the same worldwide.

 

[DaveEMG]

Heh, I was about to post a very similar thread, but to a different slant...

Domain ownership costs faaaaaar too little. I seriously think domains should run $100 per dot-com nowadays. This would end this retarded hoarding of domains in the hands of domainers that are only interested in holding on to a domain until someone comes by and tries to setup a legitimate website in it's place.

Domainers add essentially ZERO value to the overall internet, yet they are being rewarded for simply showing up first, en masse.

Sorry, I'm pretty jaded by domainers by and large this week. My business partner and I have tried to negotiate several new dot-coms this week, and the rates people are looking for are absolutely outrageous. This concept that "oh, someone that really wants it will spend the money" is only true if you're dealing with someone that is so dense that they can't continue to try alternatives until they reach a happy conclusion.

I've had some pretty absurd $5-20k conversations in the last 2 weeks. And the problem really comes down to that there's essentially ZERO pressure on the domainer to sell ANYTHING unless they get 50,000% of value.

Domainers FTMFL.

 

[halfpc]

hey, got so much meat to chew on I can not do justice to all this buzzing.
My head's spinning from the 2 daily beers and 15mg nicorette, some long lost woman came by to say hello and all your ideas & suggestion keep me glued to this screen instead, this the reason why the woman buggered off she just reminded me... I am not even coherent any more.

Dullspace, are you in London? perhaps we can meet and have some brainstorming if you can bare me lol, I push you you push me we record the lot then write it down, make a website add adsense $4 a day sounds like peanuts but it's $1500 a year for a brainstorming and a few days making a site, I love $4 a day websites it's twice as much as $2 a day

glowleaf, I envy you. I can sense you are having fun where you are typing from. some of your stuff is worth a $500 ebook... I know you call them suckers but it's just the way business is, some of these "suckers" will one day develop a domain you got paid a mere 5k for into a cool 3 mil. Will you be angry? Hell no, you helped them out get there and got paid for it, team work. It has happened to me a few times in the past while giving advice and I never even got paid for it.
This kind of talk should be sold but this is WF, come learn for free if readers are making any sense of it all, probably not from my posts!

gnomic, heeavy metal ! great for spurring me on. I'll develop a whole Master card guide on the Best Vegas Card Tricks you can get if they don't allow me my daily $4 off my mastercardguide.com.! ha ha ha
I am willing to spend $100 in developing a site or $5000 in fighting to keep my domain!!! Fuck their marketing manager that prick who let such an OBVIOUS domain go unregistered.
ahhh it's the nicorette talking, anyone paypal me $1.000 now for it and I'll take it. Be quick I am off the net in a few days till end of august! mastercardguide.com can be yours!

SeoDave,. keep on talking dude a few more posts like this and this will be THE guide on domaineering I have missed that yourcardguide.com domain but your post is the good push to register 300 domains and if need be i'll pay again next year to keep them, lol $2000 a year is all it costs.
I'd like to say more but I am soaking myself in venoms here, alcohol and nicorette and I'll just have to lie down to watch some movie with the ex lady now.

 

[Dullspace]

I've had some pretty absurd $5-20k conversations in the last 2 weeks.

Doesn't the fact that you're soliciting a purchase of their domain name alone imply value to ownership? And so, the domainer made a smart business decision registering the name with the understanding it had legitimate legal value.

And the problem really comes down to that there's essentially ZERO pressure on the domainer to sell ANYTHING unless they get 50,000% of value.

I can list a million commodities where this is true. How many reseller markets can you think of where an owner can be obligated to sell at a price of not their own choosing? They are the owner, they can do what they want with the domain. You could offer them a trillion dollars and they don't have to sell if they don't want to. I'm not sure why this should be different than 99% of markets out there.

I really understand where you're coming from by expecting ICANN or Verisign to increase renewal fees, but you shouldn't play blame-the-domainer because they simply made good business decisions. Verisign sees $6/year as the best price point to make money on domains and domainers register accordingly. I'm not sure who is "at fault" for doing what they are doing.

 

[Dullspace]

I push you you push me

I'm not sure what there is to push. If you really think that profiting off MastercardGuide.com isn't trademark infringement, you need to get your head checked. I've tried doing my best to explain things to you, but if you want to argue about it, I'm not going to bother.

I don't think there is anyone else on this board that makes a living from domain names or has dealt with a UDRP proceeding. I'm not saying everyone on WickedFire's opinions are invalid, but try giving mine a little bit more weight.

 

[halfpc]

I'm not sure what there is to push. If you really think that profiting off MastercardGuide.com isn't trademark infringement, you need to get your head checked. I've tried doing my best to explain things to you, but if you want to argue about it, I'm not going to bother.

I don't think there is anyone else on this board that makes a living from domain names or has dealt with a UDRP proceeding. I'm not saying everyone on WickedFire's opinions are invalid, but try giving mine a little bit more weight.

by "pushing" I was talking about brainstorming.

Listen Dullspace, sometimes two compatible minds can bounce off each other, and if the end result is chanelled the right way, it can produce very good results. This is what I meant by "pushing" and I was offering such a session with you, you know, BOUNCE IDEAS OFF ONE ANOTHER.

But SINCE you are coming across to me like a strange person I am beginning to think that I'd rather PISS - ON - YOUR - HEAD than talk to you.

Then again, personalities do come across in strange ways via these tiny squares we type into so i'll just leave it at that and get to the LAW like you so much want me.

by UDRP it is meant that:

"Under the policy, most types of trademark-based domain-name disputes must be resolved by agreement, court action, or arbitration before a registrar will cancel, suspend, or transfer a domain name"

and as legally expected, if my recently acquired domain was to be found to be in breach of any registered trademark and a dispute was to get logged by the rightful trademark holders in question, then this slightly nicotine-poisoned party would be just too happy to resolve it by agreement or arbritration as the law requires him to do.

in any case I have already expressed my intention to contacting the card people before I do anything, after all they are the people I want to promote for, so, what seems to be the problem with all this?

 

[DaveEMG]

Doesn't the fact that you're soliciting a purchase of their domain name alone imply value to ownership? And so, the domainer made a smart business decision registering the name with the understanding it had legitimate legal value.

Oh, I'm not saying that we're not willing to part with several grand to get a hold of the right domain. However, sites that are REALLY out there are asking for like $9,000... And we're talking about fringe sites - barely brandable, effectively no "type in"... We would have to invest the cash to actually build the brand name and traffic. Furthermore, all the sites I'm talking about are either those "blank slate" domainer sites (ya know, just ad-link units across the whole thing) or they aren't even hosted. If we were trying to buy a domain that actually had a website on it that looked like it was a company or an actual brand, then of course I'd understand to ask for a reasonable "parting" price, especially considering that owner would then have to find a suitable replacement.

I can list a million commodities where this is true. How many reseller markets can you think of where an owner can be obligated to sell at a price of not their own choosing? They are the owner, they can do what they want with the domain. You could offer them a trillion dollars and they don't have to sell if they don't want to. I'm not sure why this should be different than 99% of markets out there.

I really understand where you're coming from by expecting ICANN or Verisign to increase renewal fees, but you shouldn't play blame-the-domainer because they simply made good business decisions. Verisign sees $6/year as the best price point to make money on domains and domainers register accordingly. I'm not sure who is "at fault" for doing what they are doing.

Heh, I'm really not trying to lay blame - I'm mostly just venting because this process is pissing us off. We have a great idea. We have great developers & designers already in the works on the project. We have money. The only thing that's holding us back essentially is this naming surcharge. And the issue I guess is that it's only going to get much worse before it gets better.

I think it comes down to the fact that there are some individuals that own a great deal of the "real estate", but aren't forced in any way to part with it because there are no fees or charges so high that forces them to move on their portfolio. And to make matters worse, there are still many people that are totally willing to throw huge amounts of money on something as simple as a domain name.

I don't fault capitalism, but that doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at it either!

 

[halfpc]

Doesn't the fact that you're soliciting a purchase of their domain name alone imply value to ownership? And so, the domainer made a smart business decision registering the name with the understanding it had legitimate legal value.

dullspace, this is what I mean. ok so perhaps we do think alike. you just think I was over the top with one domain I bought.
I apologize for pissing on your head earlier bro, feel free to piss all over mine.

 

[Dullspace]

Dave,

Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes I'll check the dumbest names in the world and they've been regged & dropped three or four times. If you're not in a rush, you've got a few potential domains, and you've done your research, it might pay to wait and see which ones drop. Showing interest immediately might trigger someone to renew a domain that they might not have.

If you PM me some, I can use WHOIS history to give you an idea of regs / drops on the names you're looking at.

 

[halfpc]

Heh, I'm really not trying to lay blame - I'm mostly just venting because this process is pissing us off. We have a great idea. We have great developers & designers already in the works on the project. We have money. The only thing that's holding us back essentially is this naming surcharge.

I don't fault capitalism, but that doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at it either!

that's ok. Just think that these domaineers might have $200.000 tied up on domains which might fetch nothing for a long time.
I think that noteprocessing.com is an absolutely great domain, and it is as yet unregistered.
You can have it now for just $8.95. One day someone might come along needing just that. Till then you pay for it and wait. This is what the domineers are doing, right?

 

[DaveEMG]

Half,

Thats exactly the process I'm talking about that ticks me off about domainers. . . The cost of entry is SO low that a name like noteprocessing.com is just a trivial amount. To the right business though, it could be their company name.

We've toyed with the idea of TM'ing a name we want and then trying to duke it out for it... Anyone ever heard of an inverse trademark domain battle? I mean, I know in most instances it's a webmaster that buys a trademarked name, but has anyone ever heard of a business trademarking a name just to get a hold of the domain in a court fight?

Seriously... Versus $9k, spending $2k on lawyers fees honestly doesn't sound that bad.

 

[Dullspace]

Dave,

It's called reverse domain hijacking. The UDRP fee alone is $1500, and with lawyer fees it will come closer to 7k-10k. Also, your trademark won't mean anything. First use in commerce is 10000000% more important than the date of filing an intent-to-use application. So, until you open a commercial brand of the domain name you plan on fighting over, you won't get anywhere with the UDRP.

 

[halfpc]

can anyone talk about domain parking?

The part about driving traffic to the parked domain is quite unclear.

Sedo will say that the only thing allowed is "organic results from search engines"
this sounds quite ridiculous as you are NOT going to rank anywhere with a parked domain.
Or am I missing something? Can you push this rule a bit or what.

 

[Dullspace]

Parking services only allow direct type-in traffic, left-over links, or left-over search engine ranking. They will ban you for purchased traffic.

 

[halfpc]

Parking services only allow direct type-in traffic, left-over links, or left-over search engine ranking. They will ban you for purchased traffic.

Ok, tougher than I thought.

Got 2 ideas if anyone's short of ideas.

There's a million searches for "britney spears picture" and britneyspearspicture.info
britney-spears-picture.net are available. How's that for an optimizing aid??

Get a blog on the domain and talk about britney-spears-pictures every day at least twice.
Keep on posting comments and pictures.

Monetise it with britney screensavers from screensavers.com at 80c at a pop.
That's gotta be a $5 a day idea??

and another possible idea:

Everyone hates his boss, right? get sadboss.com (available)
then get everyone to post pictures of their bosses with their comments.

This will develop as the site grows and people suggest ideas to get back at their boss.
Job offering affiliates could monetise the site. A site for good bosses could also be developed.

Have a reputation about not being bribable: once the photo is there it stays there.

Make enough noise and fuss and many bosses will be scared shitless of having their photo taken.

If it makes $5 a day is still a winner, but it could make much more??

If anyone wants the ideas, have them

comments??

 

[Dullspace]

Those are ideas about site development, not really domaining. Domains have a major role in big websites, but domaining focuses on the buying/selling/monetizing of the domain itself.

 

[halfpc]

Those are ideas about site development, not really domaining. Domains have a major role in big websites, but domaining focuses on the buying/selling/monetizing of the domain itself.

Ok then here's a basic question that hasn't been covered.

The domain registration info, the one found on the who is.

What is the legal requirement? On some I leave my name and address, on some others I pay $2 for them to keep it hidden so it shows their criptic info.

But I never looked into it properly, so what's best to do?

Do I just put Zorro and a proper email address for anyone to contact me and no snail address?

Also, I have had Sedo asking me to change the whois info on the one domain so they can verify me.
This is the first time they ask me.

Ok, for the once I guess I can type my details in, let them see them, then put it back like it was.

But what do I do if I was to do a bit of volume? I can't change the whois of each domain so that the parking company checks me up, I might as well put up a page and host it myself??

 

[Dullspace]

Why do you feel the need to use fake contact info? I would understand if you're doing blackhat stuff, but you're not. You just want to be a domain reseller.

Do you think anyone is going to offer on domains owned by Zorro?