Dear PHP,
- Thread starter SeanW
- Start date
Yeah don't think so. I don't waste my time learning a new framework. I don't waste my time with MVC (which is worthless). I add the library's I need to get shit done and write it. If by writing more code means I have absolutly more control over my code, then I'll take that any day of the year.
Frameworks are made for asshats that can't code, it's pretty simple.
i generally respect you as a programmer and pretty knowledgable guy, but there's a whole lot of hurr and durr in this statement.
if you don't wanna use a framework, that's up to you, and i know lots of people get by just fine like that, but every non-framework (php) coder i know who's learned to use a framework has become a stronger, more structured coder for it, whether or not they actually use the framework in their projects.
That's all fine and dandy when you're flying solo on a project, but as soon as you start working with other people, not using MVC and even a framework will make everyone hate each other.
Also, any time you start creating your own functions and helpers files/classes to reuse in projects, you've entered framework land
That's probably the best point. I used to really dislike frameworks, and when I finally got into them I realized they're doing the same thing I was doing for my own apps. Having /foo/bar call Foo.bar? I thought I was clever when I started doing that. But pretty much all frameworks have a router that does the same thing.
Sean
This, pretty much.
Learning different frameworks will only make you a better programmer. Whether to use them or not will depend on the needs of the project.
amen to that...once uplinked had a taste of the python he couldn't get it out of his mouth
...or something like that
why you bitches gotta hate on me? why? i haven't written a single line of python in WEEKS.
edit -- oh yeah, but i do use ipython as my shell instead of bash, most of the time
edit -- oh yeah, but i do use ipython as my shell instead of bash, most of the time
I could argue about it all day.
Some people are OCD, I get it. Some people just need that structure I guess.
My point being, I don't think it makes you stronger programmer. I just think it just brings you up to speed in the sense that you can finally put an application together.
MVC is only advantageous to those without traditional programming backgrounds. In fact it's a web programming sensation, because who needs to learn Assembly or C/C++ first right? Chances are a traditional programmer worth half their beans would never chose such a ridiculous system to code in. I mean it's basically a micro-managed code base, and what's the next worthless "innovationary way or programming" to come after?
That's probably why I hate it so much. I wrote desktop applications forever, and only got into web development seriously roughly 2.5 years ago. I personally think MVC is a tragety and a scourge to proper programming.
Then again MVC is just another way to sell that "framework" as "something different" and not as a "collection of libraries". Which is in all honestly what they should be more aptly titled.
So no my own libraries of code are NOT a framework. They are libraries or snippets of my own home brewed code. I do not conform to a standard framework type application structure.
Indeed it has, but it's massive uptake was not until as of recently. Again because it's not really all that great.
So what exactly IS a framework to you, then? That's like if I brewed my own beer and told people "No, my own beer is NOT a beer, it's my own home brewed drink."
Psh. Not by choice. And ipython still embraces fascist control of indenting.
It's my code, I'll indent how I want to damn it.
this argument sucks. "how you want" to indent is ugly -- i say this because i know you personally
. how python forces you to indent is pretty, functional and logical. pretty code is a good thing, and should be your goal.you can write pretty code in php, but you're not *forced* to. and so most people don't. and so most php is ugly. if you write a pretty php program, then add a single ugly function, it will still run, and the code is still done, but you just lost some maintainability and your app is now uglier. python is not so forgiving, and so python code is (almost) always easy to read.
if you're writing ugly code, then why do you do so? why not enforce upon yourself coding standards, a common indent-width and bracket placement? it doesn't take more time, and it makes your app more maintainable and readable. and if you're writing pretty code anyway, why not do it in a faster language that requires fewer lines to express the same logic?