dang...sure as heck looks like it's gonna hit $100 soon. maybe I'll wait til the next dip or correction before buying.
Bitcoins at $75
- Thread starter schockergd
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(O_o)
H̨̼̩͐̑͆̀̚&
Just had a quick peek - $89.35 for a moment then. As I said a few posts back $100 before the end of the week.
This is interesting to watch to say the least. I have a few theories on how this unravels but no real "winner" among them. We'll just have to see it play out.
One thing I did consider though was that there is no market for loanable BTC, and so, no interest rate. Without an interest rate, it's impossible for BTC to function as money (store of value + medium of exchange). Or maybe because it isn't a store of value, there can't be an interest rate. Not really sure what the relationship is there.
Yes, yes yes fanboys, it can function as a currency, the same way salt and seashells can function as a currency.
One thing I did consider though was that there is no market for loanable BTC, and so, no interest rate. Without an interest rate, it's impossible for BTC to function as money (store of value + medium of exchange). Or maybe because it isn't a store of value, there can't be an interest rate. Not really sure what the relationship is there.
Yes, yes yes fanboys, it can function as a currency, the same way salt and seashells can function as a currency.
On this we are completely agreed.
You don't see Anarchists and libertarians winning from this just a little?
The #1 reason I like bitcoins is because of the vast educational campaign for Liberty that they are currently waging.
...They'll make Ron Paul's efforts look like a joke by the time we steal 1% of the economy.
Then who are these guys lending bitcoin to?
Since there is no accountability other than the old fashioned Ratings method here, I'd think these are some of the most attractive loans available for those who understand how bitcoin works.
We're in uncharted waters here.
For 6000 years money had to be a commodity, because otherwise people had no interest in using it.
Now people have a NEED to use a digital currency. -Bitcoin didn't create that... Paypal or technically even the USD started that trend... Bitcoin is just the Best digital currency and that's why so many of us realize that it can't fail without a major government attack. (Which would have to be much worse than the attack on alcohol during prohibition.)
That's obvious. The question now is; Will people need commodity-backed currency in the future?
Seems worthless now that we all basically live online.
Sure there is. Anyone looking to short bitcoin is in the market for loanable BTC.
An interest rate can be negative.
I would hope to see someone like Guerilla, that hates the government as much as most of us do, have a little more faith in BTC
One shouldn't really hate the government. The government does not lie, cheat, steal, or start wars. Its the people that make up the government. It is the people that lie, cheat, steal, and start wars. These are the very people that will start a war to see the demise of BTC.
*sigh*
I try not to operate on faith.I would hope to see someone like Guerilla, that hates the government as much as most of us do, have a little more faith in BTC
This is an essential truth that many "libertarians" lose sight of.
The problem isn't fiat money, or bitcoin, or the surveillance state, or foreign wars. Those are symptoms. The problem is that most people do not care about ideas, principles, ethics or logic. Indeed, many so-called "libertarians" don't know anything about those topics either.
I don't think crypto hashes can be money. I think they can be currency, but anything can be used as currency (see barter era).
People are confusing a speculative bubble with a change in social attitudes, the state and understanding the nature of money. I ain't buying it. Folks are doing what they have always done. Bet on a bubble so they can get rich.
You do not understand anything about economics, least of all monetary theory, history or the regression theorem.
Pure speculation? I ain't buying that.
The big upswings on the BTC price graph usually happen when there is news of some government stealing money from it's citizens. (Or even just threatening to.)
Sure, a bit of speculation is creeping in, but it isn't even one of the top three important driving forces.
I've listed the major driving forces of bitcoin on my blog, mostly taken from Polling data... And speculation was part of the #4 reason.
All polling data I can find shows the vast majority of everyone holding bitcoin hates their government. Worldwide.
I won't claim to know as much as you; but I am certainly well read on each of those subjects enough to converse about them here.
Meanwhile, what you keep missing here is that the internet has changed some very basic underlying assumptions about the way mankind does business.
For instance, you can't move gold through the tubes of the internet. It just won't fit; yet that's were 98% of ALL MONEY exists TODAY.
..And it's not convenient enough. People demand MORE freedom, so they'll keep moving AWAY from commodity-backed money.
When you keep flatly refusing to include that fact in your Mises-derived arguments, you keep making poor guesses about what's driving this economy and the importance of all of this for libertarians.
I do not blame Mises for failing to predict the internet economy. He was right about everything I know of up until the day of his death... The world's just changed since then, and you need to get with the times, bro.
Like BlokBlok was trying to say; it's a damn shame you aren't on board with bitcoin... You of all people here should be appreciating the changes it is making in the world.
No one is denying that the people aren't blind and stupid.
But do you not feel that it takes some evil parasites in the mix to rise to the top and start those wars?
Who the fuck would have voted to go into IRAQ after 9/11? Only an evil, scheming parasite running things could even come up with that idea in the first place.
The people are misled by a few parasites. Forgive me if I hate the parasites even more than the people.
No, you're not. You're an ignoramus when it comes to economics. Plus, you're an ideological zealot, which makes your errors totally skewed towards mental retardation.
First of all, no money gets transacted. Bitcoin is not a money. Fiat dollars are not money. We haven't had money since pre-WWII.
Second, gold has not been used for day to day transactions for 100s of years. Of but you're conversant on this topic, right? DERP
Until people stop existing in physical reality, and exist entirely in a digital reality, there will always be a demand for real money.
There is no effective scarcity in the digital realm. Without effective scarcity, we wouldn't even need money in the first place. All you guys are doing is trading crypto hashes. Files with pseudo-random strings of text in them. Nothing more.
My arguments are not derived from Mises. My argument is derived from reality and I think, a pretty fair understanding of economics.
You've not presented any sort of intelligent or cogent argument in favor of Bitcoin to support even half of your outlandish delusions.
Can you?
Neomania.
Nothing in today's economy, internet or otherwise refutes anything Mises has written, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
It's just another speculative bubble in an imaginary financial "asset" created out of thin air.
It's no different than trading in mortgage derivatives except without institutional support, it will never reach that scale.
If you look around, and you don't see the sucker in the BTC game, you're the sucker.
(O_o)
H̨̼̩͐̑͆̀̚&
A lot of people have been making decent returns day trading BTC on gox.
JS
If we can get the internet and IRL places to adopt BTC as a payment standard, it will stick around.
I've sold some BTC and hedged myself against most loss. even if it drops to $10 per BTC. I wont lose much $. + currently mining on a few computers making $x/day in BTC.
JS
If we can get the internet and IRL places to adopt BTC as a payment standard, it will stick around.
I've sold some BTC and hedged myself against most loss. even if it drops to $10 per BTC. I wont lose much $. + currently mining on a few computers making $x/day in BTC.
I am extremely interested in investing in BTC. I don't have a solid opinion on the longevity of bitcoins, or if they really are all they have been cracked up to be, because I cannot confidently say I truly understand all the ins and outs; it's quite complicated. None the less, there is certainly money to be made. I remember when I set up my mt gox account, BTC were only 13$. That was for silk road. I remember when they were less than half that as well, but I did not have the money then to invest nor would i have known to.
Me and a close friend have been considering investing for a week or two now.. Thinking a few thousand.. Shoot if I was more certain I would invest 20k lol.. Wishing I had bought in at $50. Does anyone have any speculations on how high BTC will go within the next few months? Also, is there no transaction limit on the exchanges? Like, if I wanted to buy 100k in BTC today, could I sell it all tomorrow? I assume there is not, just not sure. It seems so lucrative, but I've never been one to take big risks and gamble with my money, even when things seem very bright I still stress about the worst scenarios.
Me and a close friend have been considering investing for a week or two now.. Thinking a few thousand.. Shoot if I was more certain I would invest 20k lol.. Wishing I had bought in at $50. Does anyone have any speculations on how high BTC will go within the next few months? Also, is there no transaction limit on the exchanges? Like, if I wanted to buy 100k in BTC today, could I sell it all tomorrow? I assume there is not, just not sure. It seems so lucrative, but I've never been one to take big risks and gamble with my money, even when things seem very bright I still stress about the worst scenarios.
I dont think there will ever be a point where anyone can claim, without certainty, bitcoin is a success. It will always be a secondary currency since no country will adapt it - they will 'outlaw' it before that ever happens. I think it will forever be the argument that its a bubble and it will fail eventually (if and when it does), even if its $1m a coin.
(O_o)
H̨̼̩͐̑͆̀̚&
Two years ago I bought 50 BTC and I have no idea what wallet I put them in or etc, lol, still kicking myself for that!
I would get in now, only invest what you can lose!
If you wanted to dump 100k worth of BTC in a day, you could do it depending upon which exchange you use or use multiple exchances (mtgox + coinbase).
For the record, if you're speculating, like 
is, then you're speculating. You know what you're doing, you understand there is risk.
What I don't like, is these fanatics who like to claim Bitcoin has some efficacy because people are speculating in it.
When BTC ultimately dies down or fails, it will leave people a lot wiser the next time they try to design a currency.
Bitcoin itself is nothing special. It's just a brand. Anyone could take the source code and create a MattsehBuck or a LukePFruitLoopDollar using the same infrastructure.
That's ultimately why I think it will fail. It's simply non scarce, even though there is internal scarcity within Bitcoin. Anyone can create their own cryptocurrency. It's just a matter of marketing.
Someone said on skype the other day, Wickedfire is full of marketers who fall for marketing. That's probably a very accurate assessment of a segment of the posters here. Some of them actually start marketing to themselves.
is, then you're speculating. You know what you're doing, you understand there is risk.What I don't like, is these fanatics who like to claim Bitcoin has some efficacy because people are speculating in it.
There is one good thing about Bitcoin. It puts pressure on the existing system. Pressure is necessary for evolution and efficiency.
When BTC ultimately dies down or fails, it will leave people a lot wiser the next time they try to design a currency.
Bitcoin itself is nothing special. It's just a brand. Anyone could take the source code and create a MattsehBuck or a LukePFruitLoopDollar using the same infrastructure.
That's ultimately why I think it will fail. It's simply non scarce, even though there is internal scarcity within Bitcoin. Anyone can create their own cryptocurrency. It's just a matter of marketing.
Someone said on skype the other day, Wickedfire is full of marketers who fall for marketing. That's probably a very accurate assessment of a segment of the posters here. Some of them actually start marketing to themselves.
Ad hominem.
99% of my economics understanding comes from reading books from AnCaps, including from the Mises site. Again, I'll admit I haven't studied as much as you seem to have done on this subject, but you won't lose me in the conversation.
Ad hominem again. I happen to turn out to be right far more than ppl on this board like to admit.
Case in point: Chromebooks:
Maybe Those Chromebooks Weren’t Such A Crazy Idea After All | TechCrunch
Acer's sales numbers could be another sign that Chromebooks are here to stay | The Verge
I may have a bit of ideological zealotry in me, but I also don't speak without researching what I talk about a bit.
TOUCHDOWN!
This is more than I had hoped to hear you admit... You just classified bitcoin and fiat USD the same.
Given this, it is clear that if you took the threat of force away from the USD, then bitcoin would be the new favorite currency in no time flat.
Or are you claiming that when the threat of force goes away, then people would pick up gold coins again and mainly trade in those?
Of course; it's too impractical; a problem that bitcoin solves.
I only brought it gold up because you seem to want to revert back to it or a basket of currencies including it instead of bitcoin.
What, in the outback? Sub-Saharan Africa? Amish colonies? Post-apocolyptically?
Do I really need to make the argument for such inconsequential situations?
Bitcoin can be every money to everyone who has a computer... Once we get the government out of it's way... Which judging by the price graph, has a chance from momentum alone.
As for these oddballs like the Amish, WHO CARES??? Let them barter directly... I'm for freedom, and what the free market wants, it should get.
Oh this ought to be good...
Please tell us why bitcoin is not effectively scarce. You didn't even know that it was divisible last year!
Mining rigs and computational power are both indisputably scarce, and those are exactly the finite resources that keep ALL cryptocurrencies going...
Soooooo, unless you foolishly think it would be possible to "make more bitcoins" then of course bitcoins are effectively scarce because all computing power is scarce and must be used to CHOOSE WHICH cryptocurrency they wish to support.
There can be only one cryptocurrency. Ask yourself if you'd rather mine litecoins or bitcoins right now and you'll start to understand.
That's enough. We clearly do see value in them.
Fine; they just don't include a pretty fair understanding of the cryptocurrency landscape.
...Which is beyond sad considering what it offers libertarians.
Define it and I'll produce it.
Until then I'll keep saying what is important, as I always have.
Nope; Freedomania.
I'm not sure it does or not... Just that today's needs for money are now different than they once were. Why is this so hard to accept?
Oh really? Are you sure about that?
Just off the top of my head:
- You can't make more bitcoins. They are truly scarce.
- You can't go buy some mortgage derivatives in 20 minutes flat.
- You can't be taxed on bitcoin income if you know what you're doing.
- You can't sneak a million dollars in Mortgage derivatives into any country on the planet.
- You can't tell the government to go fuck themselves trading mortgage derivatives, either.
Good thing I can see him then. :evil_laughter: