Bitcoins at $75

[guerilla]

Ad hominem.

That's not adhominem. I didn't say you were wrong because you're stupid. I just said you were wrong and stupid.

99% of my economics understanding comes from reading books from AnCaps, including from the Mises site.

Which books?

I happen to turn out to be right far more than ppl on this board like to admit.

I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself, but it's my impression that your reputation on this forum is as someone who is a bit of a nut.

Ad hominem again.

That's not ad hominem. For crissakes, don't use terms you don't understand.

If I call you a shithead, that's not ad hominem. If I say your argument is invalid BECAUSE you're a shithead, that's ad hominem.

I may have a bit of ideological zealotry in me

That and you're incapable of critical thinking, and like many people incapable of critical thinking, completely unaware that is the case (total lack of self-awareness).

I need to ignore all of your posts from now on because they take me to a place where I start not liking Wickedfire.

 

[lukep]

Does anyone have any speculations on how high BTC will go within the next few months?

That's the same thing as speculating how many news stories will break worldwide of Governments doing naughty things.

If I were going to speculate bigtime on btc, the obvious thing to do would be to get as much money as I could up into mt.gox, watch the news, and buy as soon as the next Cyprus situation develops.

Selling is harder... There don't seem to be many dips lately. It may just be better to keep on buying.

Also, is there no transaction limit on the exchanges? Like, if I wanted to buy 100k in BTC today, could I sell it all tomorrow?

The trading is fine, but getting your money out has different limits on different exchanges. I think Mt.Gox was just a few thousand, maybe $5k at a time... Of course it's nearly free to send that money to your bitcoin wallet and go sell it elsewhere.

I dont think there will ever be a point where anyone can claim, without certainty, bitcoin is a success.

Successful at what though? I'm really stoked at it's PAST success.

It can easily be shown that people around the world are using it to flee bad government policy. That's waking people up. They are seeing that their existing money situation sucks and they want something better. (Called freedom, but they don't know that yet.)

So measured in terms of sheeple starting to want more freedom, I'd say Bitcoin has already been one of the most successful things on the planet.

It will always be a secondary currency since no country will adapt it - they will 'outlaw' it before that ever happens.

Outlawing didn't work too well for prohibition; and everyone knows that alcohol is bad for you.

When the USG tries to prohibit bitcoin, everyone will have some and KNOW that their government doesn't want what's best for them.

It'll be the best day for freedom since 1776.

Eventually, bitcoin and the other peer-to-peer techs like torrents and mesh networking are going to simply destroy governments. They won't have any power anymore; the economy they control will be totally optional.

 

[Faesthetic]

Two years ago I bought 50 BTC and I have no idea what wallet I put them in or etc, lol, still kicking myself for that!

I would get in now, only invest what you can lose!

If you wanted to dump 100k worth of BTC in a day, you could do it depending upon which exchange you use or use multiple exchances (mtgox + coinbase).

Ouch! I'm sure you got them for a pretty good price vs what they are going for today, that's like 4k if they are 80~/btc. Very very shitty lol.

Your totally right on sooner the better though, if anything I'll keep it low and invest just a couple thousand.. Kind of waiting for them to go down a bit again, or waiting for the next cyprus like event to take place again. But maybe I shouldn't wait lol, it's a gamble for sure, and I typically prefer more guaranteed returns, never made investments like this.

Also thanks for clarifying on transactions Luke, I would quote your post but it's massive lol.

 

[guerilla]

To go back and address what BlokBlok wrote, why wouldn't I support anything that undermines a state monopoly?

I don't think Bitcoin is a good currency, and it can't ever be a money. I can explain this technically and have tried to do so before.

I can't in good faith promote the use of something I don't think is good, even though it can be interpreted as being anti-state.

The state doesn't derive its power from force. It derives its power from consent. Force is how that consent is expressed.

People don't understand money, and until they do, we won't get good money. The challenge isn't to promote a new kind of money, but to educate people (start with the Bitcoin fanboys I think) about what money is and is not, and why it is so crucial for a healthy, peaceful society.

In a truly free market world, we'd probably have crypto receipts+physical money.

Crypto alone however is no different than fiat money. It's non-scarce.

 

[Grindstone]

Sure, I'll trade you some of my salt and bullets after that EMP drops. Silly faggots.

/bitter he didn't get in at $10 and out at $75

 

[mattseh]

Mattsehbuck? Jesus outting Christ bro

 

[conjamuk]

almost at 100 now thats when i sell for a massive profit.

 

[conv3rsion]

No, you're not. Plus, you're an ideological zealot, which makes your errors totally skewed towards mental retardation.

This, coming from you, is high fucking comedy.

First of all, no money gets transacted. Bitcoin is not a money.

As something generally accepted as a medium of exchange, a measure of value, or a means of payment, Bitcoin is exactly money, and insofar as good money is chosen by the market because it has specific properties (fungibility, divisibility, portability, scarcity) it demonstrates those.

I'm not going to argue with you as others are doing here. I understand the power of this technology for massive disruption and enabling freedom and the individual. Instead of talking out of my ass with a closed mind, I'm going to pragmatically support the things which further those ideals.

 

[EricVorheese]

Wishing I had bought in at $50. Does anyone have any speculations on how high BTC will go within the next few months?

$1097.34. Guaranteed.

Also, is there no transaction limit on the exchanges? Like, if I wanted to buy 100k in BTC today, could I sell it all tomorrow?

Do you even know how exchanges work?

Jesus.

 

[conv3rsion]

By the way, on the topic of alt-coins being your answer for why Bitcoin isn't truly scarce, neither is metal. Gold and Silver are more scarce than Copper, but less scarce than Platinum, and yet they were historically the best money over all other metals. As it turns out, for a money scarcity is less important than consensus acceptability, chosen by the market, based on all of the item's properties.

Bitcoin, having the first mover advantage, enjoys more consensus acceptability and will be the better money.

 

[conv3rsion]

$1097.34. Guaranteed.



Do you even know how exchanges work?

Jesus.

I didn't realize you were on wickedfire. Nice job on the Brian Lehrer interview.

 

[conv3rsion]

oh wait, different erik voorheese.

 

[lukep]

Which books?

The ones I still have on my PC:
The Law
The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude
Economics in one Lesson (Hazlitt)
Concieved in Liberty (Rothbard)
Socialism (I admit that Mises is too heavy here to fully understand.)
Planned Chaos (Still reading)

I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself, but it's my impression that your reputation on this forum is as someone who is a bit of a nut.

It's my impression that my reputation for being a nut has been given to me for being correct about things that people don't want to believe... Fuck that noise.

If I say your argument is invalid BECAUSE you're a shithead, that's ad hominem.

Well You did say it in two sentences:

No, you're not. You're an ignoramus when it comes to economics.

That looks like you first said I'm not, and then stated the reason. Pardon me if you didn't mean it that way; you didn't give any other reason.

That and you're incapable of critical thinking, and like many people incapable of critical thinking, completely unaware that is the case (total lack of self-awareness).

Oh, so now I'm not even smart enough to know that I exist. Man, you are full of unfounded insults today.

It doesn't make me mad at all because I know how uninformed they are. Why bother?

I need to ignore all of your posts from now on because they take me to a place where I start not liking Wickedfire.

Feel free, but this is like the 4th time you've done this, and even I learned a few times ago that it's kinda childish to just ignore others who are just speaking their beliefs. (Just ask bluechinagroup or erifdekciw.)

I don't have cooties, either. Grow up.

I don't think Bitcoin is a good currency

This is the thing you and I should be talking about.

If I can't make you see that it's already money, then fine... But why isn't it a good currency?

At what point of adoption/ease of use/whatever will you start supporting it?

People don't understand money, and until they do, we won't get good money.

Nobody wants your old-school money. It can't be made native to the web, where we are.

The challenge is...to educate people (start with the Bitcoin fanboys I think)

Why "bitcoin fanboys?" their goals are the same as yours. You seem to want to waste your efforts preaching to the choir when there are bigger fish to fry.

In a truly free market world, we'd probably have crypto receipts+physical money.

Crypto alone however is no different than fiat money. It's non-scarce.

LOLOLOL

Pewep? Is that you?

I just took the time above to explain how it is indeed scarce and you didn't even feel the need to deny it. At this point you're just trolling about scarcity.

Please name me one known Money that was as scarce as bitcoin is.

 

[guerilla]

This, coming from you, is high fucking comedy.

I guess if you never understood anything I wrote, you could draw this conclusion.

As something generally accepted as a medium of exchange, a measure of value, or a means of payment, Bitcoin is exactly money, and insofar as good money is chosen by the market because it has specific properties (fungibility, divisibility, portability, scarcity) it demonstrates those.

Hmm, you missed durable. How curious.

Bitcoin can be used as a currency, however it is not money, because money is a store of value and a medium of exchange. There is no value in bitcoin except as a medium of exchange.

I'm not going to argue with you as others are doing here.

Weird, that seems to be exactly what you're doing.

Instead of talking out of my ass with a closed mind, I'm going to pragmatically support the things which further those ideals.

Being pragmatic without principles is just politicking.

You've made exactly the point I was trying to communicate about lay people and money. Folks will support just about anything that comes down the pipe under the guise of being pragmatic. That is why people support fiat money.

By the way, on the topic of alt-coins being your answer for why Bitcoin isn't truly scarce, neither is metal.

Actually, that's not the only reason it isn't scarce.

And I am not making an argument for metal monies.

As it turns out, for a money scarcity is less important than consensus acceptability, chosen by the market, based on all of the item's properties.

Scarcity is crucial, otherwise it wouldn't matter how much fiat money the USG prints.

Consensus acceptability is tied to scarcity, real and perceived. Just because a lot of people thought the earth was flat, didn't mean it was flat.

Bitcoin, having the first mover advantage, enjoys more consensus acceptability and will be the better money.

Better than? By this argument, Yahoo was the better search engine than Google.

In tech, last mover frequently has a bigger advantage than first mover. Anyone can spin up another {name}Coin. A better {name}Coin. A better marketed {name}Coin.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic advantage over any other clone other than being first.

 

[hehejo]

lukep, how many things did you actually buy with bitcoins as a currency? Or are you just speculating on it like all the others?

 

[rish3]

tl;dr for the remainder of this thread.

blah blah blah [chart.jpg]

blah blah blah

blah blah blah

blah blah blah [meme.jpg]

 

[lukep]

Hmm, you missed durable. How curious.

So he forgot one criteria.

Bitcoin is indeed more durable than anything else I've known to be used as money. About the only 2 things that can happen to it are ELEs and losing your data. (Both of which would kill any other money just as effectively.)

it is not money, because money is a store of value

Neither is any other currency... But money has moved online 98% already, so as long as we are headed there, the free market will surely pick the currency that protects it's perceived value best.

Know of any contenders that aren't rapidly losing marketshare to bitcoin?

Anyone can spin up another {name}Coin. A better {name}Coin. A better marketed {name}Coin.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic advantage over any other clone other than being first.

Here's where you are showing your ignorance again about bitcoin.

As ALL of these guys have learned by now; THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE popular cryptocurrency.

This is because there is a limited supply of processing power behind all of the cryptocurrencies, pitting them in an important competition for their NETWORKS SECURITY.

These miners (myself included) all must choose the 'Coin to mine that THEY WANT TO SEE SURVIVE A 51% ATTACK... And if more litecoin miners existed than bitcoin, then they'd be able to use their hardware to 51% the bitcoin network together.

They know this, and they take sides religiously.

Miners aren't speculators in any way. Their investment into mining rigs and utilities could have been made directly into bitcoin itself with a lot less money, risk and time. They do it because they want bitcoin to survive and most of them personally want to see the Fed destroyed.

lukep, how many things did you actually buy with bitcoins as a currency? Or are you just speculating on it like all the others?

I've grabbed a few things; I got a domain recently from namecheap, I've left lots of tips for other ppl, and I found some fun stuff on Bitmit and CoinDL more recently.

I don't have to pay for porn or anything illegal right now so I've been lucky to be able to save my stash as much as I have... But since I'm in Asia I'm sure there will be purchases out of country that BTC will be the only payment option in soon.

 

[conv3rsion]

Bitcoin can be used as a currency, however it is not money, because money is a store of value and a medium of exchange. There is no value in bitcoin except as a medium of exchange.

FALSE. Even accepting this limited definition of money, your argument then is that there is no store of value as a distributed, guaranteed consistent, permanent datastore? I can put encoded data on millions of computers and prevent it from being tampered without an impossibly high level of proof of work. That's incredibly valuable, much moreso than a physical good, and it has nothing to do with Bitcoin's usability as medium of exchange or function as a payment system and a currency.

Its obvious that you have limited knowledge of Bitcoin. I'd recommend that you read the whitepaper. It would also be nice if whenever you are cornered you could stop resorting to personal attacks and rhetoric like "lay person" and "ignoramus".

 

[productionhead]

gorilla gorilla

 

[Always]

does anyone actually use bitcoins to buy anything other than illegal shit?

sure, namecheap and some other random companies accept it, but who is honestly spending their bitcoins on things they could just buy with their debit card?

seems way too risky for any real legit use because it fluctuates so much, business owners can't risk suddenly losing 15% of a sale if coins go down.