Bitcoin is not market money
- Thread starter guerilla
- Start date
lukep, there is apparently something that you missed in those calculation: Difficulty factor
The difficulty factor will make it impossible for you to generate those many bitcoins. use this calculator to determine your numbers now: Bitcoin Mining Calculator
They already have the difficulty factor based on the current network
The difficulty factor will make it impossible for you to generate those many bitcoins. use this calculator to determine your numbers now: Bitcoin Mining Calculator
They already have the difficulty factor based on the current network
One big solar flare and any investment in bitcoins is wiped out. Assuming someone doesn't have a giant paper filing system organizing everyones balances.
Of course, bitcoins would be the least of our worries in such a situation.
Of course, bitcoins would be the least of our worries in such a situation.
Still not a very good investment though. Event if BTC is at $13 say, that's about $10/day = $300/month. That's 7 months just to pay the rig off before you see any profit, and even then the money isn't enough to care about. If you're going through that much headache for $300/month, there's something wrong.
Then at that whopping $2.66/day you're talking, it's 26 months to pay off the rig, and by then it'll definitely be time to buy a new rig. Not exactly the investment opportunity of a lifetime.
I have no skin in this game at all, but it seems to me that they're decent for trade ... I'm not sure how this ties into "money" or currency or whatever, but it does tell me that demand for something similar is in place. Perhaps the value of bitcoins falls to nothing, there will be a successor. Cycles of cpu (proc or graphics) has current, but perhaps not future, value. The problem here is that hardware gets better and they've set bitcoins to stop being produced ... which means that the faster computers of the future, that would likely have much more processing power, will get less value from doing more. This seems to be a major flaw in my book because if that argument was erased, I can see the value of the processing cycles.
If they're never used for anything except digital goods trading (not even including drugs) and truly are ANONYMOUS they still have value to a good chunk of people, including teh paranoid at heart like myself.
All that said, it's definitely the potential for this idea ... not bitcoins themself .. that have my interest. I probably wouldn't even accept them when pushing electrons.
If they're never used for anything except digital goods trading (not even including drugs) and truly are ANONYMOUS they still have value to a good chunk of people, including teh paranoid at heart like myself.
All that said, it's definitely the potential for this idea ... not bitcoins themself .. that have my interest. I probably wouldn't even accept them when pushing electrons.
So let me ask this question:
Suppose these bitcoin people gave the owners of each bitcoin access to the processing power of current mining operations as the "value" backing the currency. In this example, they sound more like an investment (dividends) but does it better define money?
Suppose these bitcoin people gave the owners of each bitcoin access to the processing power of current mining operations as the "value" backing the currency. In this example, they sound more like an investment (dividends) but does it better define money?
How else are you going to buy your weed, and heroin, online? Underground Website Lets You Buy Any Drug Imaginable | Threat Level | Wired.com
That would apply to any currencies, its all just some numbers inside someone (banks) computers.
I am not a bitcoin fanboy. Just pointing out that the bitcoin fanboy in the article you posted didn't understand that every "pro" he listed for Bitcoins actually paints a massive target on it's back by the establishment.
It's not an opinion. It is a matter of logic.
Bitcoins are inflated.
Bitcoin can be traded as a barter item, but it is not a money. Don't confuse the two. You cannot price in Bitcoins and THAT is why they cannot be money.
Because that is the only way it can be priced.
Also why would anyone with a brain put money into this? There is no safety net for having your money in bitcoins. At least if you put your money in a bank you have some security to protect your money. Now if the dollar went belly up and the economy crashed then you would you shit out of luck, but there are millions of people around the world that are insuring that doesn't happen. The only thing holding bit coin up are a bunch of 17-25 year old 4chan kids who believe in an anonymous currency to buy their drugs.
So wheres your safety net in bitcoins? Since its not a bank your money can't be protected. If you get hacked and all your bitcoins taken then your screwed. At a real bank your money can be protected.
Unauthorized transaction? who do you complain to about that on bitcoin? Guess your shit out of luck on that one too.
Like someone else said, this is pretty much an investment. Not a currency. Your basically investing in an idea. And as long as people remain ignorant to how stupid bitcoin is, then investors will make money off them.
So wheres your safety net in bitcoins? Since its not a bank your money can't be protected. If you get hacked and all your bitcoins taken then your screwed. At a real bank your money can be protected.
Unauthorized transaction? who do you complain to about that on bitcoin? Guess your shit out of luck on that one too.
Like someone else said, this is pretty much an investment. Not a currency. Your basically investing in an idea. And as long as people remain ignorant to how stupid bitcoin is, then investors will make money off them.
The reality of bitcoin. A quote from YouTube.
"you are right, I discovered about a week ago that this rig was actually part of a very powerful botnet which was being used to hack into several banks on the East Coast. Now I see where all of the Bitcoin money was coming from :-( I'm going to shutdown this operation within the next 30 days."
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt8Se3vVNg&NR=1]Bitcoin Mining Rig - 24 Machine Setup - 48Gh - YouTube[/ame]
"you are right, I discovered about a week ago that this rig was actually part of a very powerful botnet which was being used to hack into several banks on the East Coast. Now I see where all of the Bitcoin money was coming from :-( I'm going to shutdown this operation within the next 30 days."
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt8Se3vVNg&NR=1]Bitcoin Mining Rig - 24 Machine Setup - 48Gh - YouTube[/ame]
^Reasons #1 & #2 I have no investment at all yet.
If I get in with a Rig myself it'll be because I see awesome growth and room for expansion.
Bitcoin increased in worth over 1000 Times already... And that's with an incredibly small percentage of people knowing what they are.
Perhaps if RP were elected the atmosphere could change a bit? Then millionaires would all want to hide their wealth in BTC, and each bitcoin could go up to Thousands of dollars in value each!
Pools remove that. It is highly recommended to mine in at least 2 pools with other people to spread out the diff factor over a very large number of other miners. In this case you don't have a difficulty factor, but you do have a percentage "take" of the pool.
Lately there are certain pools popping up that don't even take a cut! Bitcoin Mining Pool - Home is one. -And it is run by a WF member, too!
Only if the flare wiped out electronic networks in all corners of the globe at once. (We'd all be dead then surely.)
It's actually far more stabilized than central bank computer networks for this purpose, because it's peer-to-peer exclusively.
Who? It lives only peer-to-peer & is self-managing....
The processing is already being used by something so ingenious that using the processing for any other purpose would be a major step back.
This processing basically ensures that bitcoin is 100% completely safe from being counterfeited. You'd literally have to get a larger network of processing together than all the bitcoin miners & users in existence to attempt to counterfeit any bitcoin right now, but if you had that processing power it would be far more profitable to use it to mine bitcoin yourself!
A truly elegant system.
Sounds like broken logic if people find value in superior trading units.
And what currency can't be inflated? At least they are completely scarce so they have more controls over inflation than other currencies...
Not yet. They'll have to stabilize, this is granted. But if BTC in & of itself is found to have value by the masses, then they would be indeed by a commodity, like gold.
It's really all about if it's going to catch on or not. If it does not, you're right. If it does, you're dead wrong. Because if everyone uses them and finds value in them, why wouldn't they be the best commodity in the world for use as a currency?
Granted, safety that the BTC will exist tomorrow is THE reason $1,000 =/= 1 BTC now nor is it in widespread use.
It's a huge obstacle to overcome; and anyone who thinks the USA or NATO or even the UN is going to sit back and allow BTC to become a major world currency has some sad times ahead.
But if you learn about bitcoin and how ingenious the design is for getting around their defenses, you will clearly see that the powers that be would have an easier time ridding all of New York city of cockroaches than ridding the world of bitcoin.
What would their options be?
The "Nuclear" option would be to literally hunt down and kill all known users, regardless of country.
No doubt that is world war three, so you know they are going to avoid that option at all costs.
The next closest option is to find a way to completely and utterly destroy the interwebz, and scan everyone at the ports & airports for data transfer. (And destroy all data going through.) No country would feel free anymore with all citizens told that they aren't allowed to take jump drives, laptops, MP3 players nor smartphones through. There'd be an uprising for sure.
Interestingly though, there doesn't appear to be any other options for the powers that be outside of propaganda. They can make the people think that BTC is bad for them...
That's really their only play.
...Seems to me they've already started this campaign and it's working on you.
Stolen bitcoin is stolen. The rules change a little bit, but some safeties like chargeback protection could be created in the private sector, perhaps as a bitcoin insurance company. I bet there would be many new industries created around bitcoins with awesome benefits we can't dream of now.
It's the people that are stupid, not bitcoin.
That's precisely what's making them a poor investment.
OK, not a bitcoin owner/miner personally, but its an intriguing concept to me. A couple things people keep throwing out on this thread I know to be false and can be looked up easily enough.
1) There is a finite amount of bitcoins that can ever exist. The concept behind them is a logarithmic scale that, as the "mining" of them gets closer to that final number, the amount of processing power taken to "mine" those last bitcoins is infinitely more than the amount of processing power needed to mine the first bitcoins. IMHO that is something in their favor, that actually makes them more akin to gold or silver than paper fiat money, because there is a finite amount that can ever exist, unlike paper fiat money, which a gov't can always simply print more of.
2. I'm no P2P expert, but there simply isn't a way for a gov't to "shut it down" anymore than a gov't could "shut down" the exchange of any other digital file sent anonymously. As to hacking/counterfeiting, my understanding of how bitcoins work is that each additional bitcoin "mined' is actually adding to the hash that "tracks/validates" the transactions already out there, so bitcoins have none of the counterfeiting risk of printed paper currency.
Usefulness as a medium of exchange (e.g. "money") depends on acceptance by 2 parties in an exchange to accept whatever that object is as a medium of exchange, and agree on the valuation/"exchange rate". Manhattan was sold for beads and shells, Native Americans in the West used blankets as currency, etc. If I want to trade pretty rocks for hosting services, as long as the hosting provider is willing to accept those pretty rocks as payment and provide me hosting services in exchange, than those pretty rocks are "money" in that regard, bitcoins are no different.
1) There is a finite amount of bitcoins that can ever exist. The concept behind them is a logarithmic scale that, as the "mining" of them gets closer to that final number, the amount of processing power taken to "mine" those last bitcoins is infinitely more than the amount of processing power needed to mine the first bitcoins. IMHO that is something in their favor, that actually makes them more akin to gold or silver than paper fiat money, because there is a finite amount that can ever exist, unlike paper fiat money, which a gov't can always simply print more of.
2. I'm no P2P expert, but there simply isn't a way for a gov't to "shut it down" anymore than a gov't could "shut down" the exchange of any other digital file sent anonymously. As to hacking/counterfeiting, my understanding of how bitcoins work is that each additional bitcoin "mined' is actually adding to the hash that "tracks/validates" the transactions already out there, so bitcoins have none of the counterfeiting risk of printed paper currency.
Usefulness as a medium of exchange (e.g. "money") depends on acceptance by 2 parties in an exchange to accept whatever that object is as a medium of exchange, and agree on the valuation/"exchange rate". Manhattan was sold for beads and shells, Native Americans in the West used blankets as currency, etc. If I want to trade pretty rocks for hosting services, as long as the hosting provider is willing to accept those pretty rocks as payment and provide me hosting services in exchange, than those pretty rocks are "money" in that regard, bitcoins are no different.
Unless you use gold and silver as currency, or any physical commodity for that matter.
LOL! Sad but true.
This is a perfect example of why physical commodities are becoming useless, and Mises is wrong about currency needing to be a commodity.
Currency now DESPERATELY needs to be based online!
Britfag and Lukefag,
Gold sovereigns are legal tender in the UK. Australian Nuggets are legal tender in Australia.
Kthnxbi
Gold sovereigns are legal tender in the UK. Australian Nuggets are legal tender in Australia.
Kthnxbi
People that invest in BTC are stupid. There's no way of telling what the hell is going to happen to the price of bitcoins in advance, it fluctuates wildly in reaction to the slightest of changes in the BTC marketplace, you simply cant rely on it for investments (yet).
People who use it to remain anonymous however, are smart. In terms of transferring money over the internet in a completely anonymous fashion, BTC is the most reliable way to go. I hope it flourishes and stabilizes so that the underground drug and assassination markets can do the same, those guys never catch a break.
People who use it to remain anonymous however, are smart. In terms of transferring money over the internet in a completely anonymous fashion, BTC is the most reliable way to go. I hope it flourishes and stabilizes so that the underground drug and assassination markets can do the same, those guys never catch a break.