Ah, Religion - My Short Story

[nickster]

^^^
You're an idiot, I personally knew people the were sent to prison and even had their finger nails pulled out. If they didn't renounce God.

Now go see whos feeding the worlds starving children.

Haha, you're calling ME an idiot and you're the one who believes in a great big space daddy

Again there were atrocities done by athiests, but that does not mean they were doing it in the name of athiesm.

So now the old charity argument. So Christians are the only ones on this planet who feeds starving children? hmmm ever heard of Medecins Sans Frontieres? Guess not

So feeding starving children equates to being good right?
Well tell that to the people of Gaza. Hamas is one of the biggest feeders and clothers of children in the region, does that make them good? Yeah right.

Stop equating humanism with Christianity.

What about all the starving children when the Catholic Pope lives in a gold covered palace and is the third largest land owner in the world? Give me a break.

I'm tired of people pointing out religious fanatics without looking at the other side.

Dude, we're not talking about fanatics here, we are talking about popes, mullahs and religious leaders of all ilk. We are talking about the actual teachings in YOUR books

 

[Rusky]

^^^
Would you like me to find numbers of people killed.

And yes they were killing in the name of atheism. Just like you, they wanted to abolish religion all together. There's transcripts in Russian, about the conversations they had to with Christians. Before shooting them in the head for staying faithful.


Should I also mention Eugenics.


I didnt mean to call you an idiot, you know you're not. I got hot.

 

[-God-]

^^^
You're an idiot, I personally knew people the were sent to prison and even had their finger nails pulled out. If they didn't renounce God.

Now go see whos feeding the worlds starving children.

Duh, well why didn't you just say that!

At least then we could have all agreed about how great religion is and how atheism is corrupt and creams money from countless people the world over...

Sod it, I'm going to knock on my neighbours door to read a passage from The Selfish Gene, ask for a donation and see if I can babysit their kids.

 

[Rusky]

Look whos talking. lol.

I have my beef with the way things are run(human nature, greed). I agree to much money talk in churches. I believe in the whole new testament, money was mentioned one or two total times. We hear about it 2-3 times an hour sometimes. FYI I'm not the usual church guy. I go sometimes.

 

[nickster]

And yes they were killing in the name of atheism. Just like you, they wanted to abolish religion all together.

But you're not getting what I am saying, these people were maniacs and formed their own warped beliefs and framework for a society, they were not doing it for atheism they were doing it so that they could be the absolute final word on things and religion gets in the way of that.

As I said before I don't want to abolish religion, although I wish it would fade out on its own, I just want it to leave the rest of us alone. If people don't try to force their religion on me and my family and my fellow humans I have no problem with what they believe.

 

[writtenstyle]

Rebutal posted below in bold.

Again...there's no sense to this. You can't just say "Ah that was just an ADHD overview of how we actually came to be, he didn't feel like leaving us any tidbits of knowledge for once we were smart enough to understand." The Bible is God's word, I'm not sure how you can classify yourself as a Christian and say that's not true.

The bible was never intended to be a science book. How could the bible cover all things creation and still have room for everything else? The bible is mainly a book on spirituality, not natural things. The bible would be the size of a library if it contained all the things you want it to contain.

Again, the only reason you say that is because we have proven that the world is older than 10,000 years. The story of the resurrection of Jesus is just as outlandish as believing the world was created in 7 days...it's all part of the same book.

But the bible proved the World was older than 10,000 years old before we did. It did it in Genesis chapter 1. We didnt know that to be fact until modern archeology. Again, the bible was right before we knew it was right.

If you believe the Earth is older than 10,000 years, you must at least somewhat trust the merit of science. And by doing that, you'd trust enough to believe that Earth was created billions of years after the universe came into existence. Saying the "Earth was created before time" is just a philosophical trinket to explain that 'time' didn't start until somebody was there to observe it (humans).

Actually, time was created before humans, but I digress. But yes, I LOVE SCIENCE!!!!!!! Interesting, I love science and I am a Christian. How can that be?

Philisophical trinket? No, I was just giving you ammo to fight the 10,000 year old crowd. They get on my nerves, too. They simply do not know the bible to come up with that. The bible clearly states that the Earth was here way before 10,000 years of human history or whatever.

And this is from your Bible...

Man created the Bible. The Bible IS the world of God. The Bible is Christianity. Man = Christianity.

The reason I am staying in the bible with you is because you asked how to interpret the bible. I am showing you to only take the bible at it's word, not a religious persons view of what they want you to think Christianity is.

We haven't proved the Bible to be true and accurate yet, so quoting it is useless in my opinion. Also you're just pulling comparisons, that which you could do with many religious texts I'm sure.

The bible is VERY accurate. I'll concede "true" to you, since that is more a belief thing as to what is true. But as far as accurate, the bible is scary accurate on things.

Again, just drawing conclusions here. Ancient humans worshiped the Sun because that's what watched over them. They saw the sun was a big circle. Maybe they thought in a perfect heavenly world, the Earth could maybe be a big circle too? You can have a flat circle.

See, you proved a point. At a time when humans were worshipping the Sun (Egypt) That verse was written, and a belief system that shunned worsip of Gods, as in Sun gods.

And stretching out the heavens like a canopy...I don't really know how else to convey my point. It's just making a metaphor fit how you want it to.

Take the bible literally.

How many prophecies in the Bible are wrong? I've looked it up myself, verses that declare the end of the world is coming soon, coming before our generation has passed, etc. We're still here, and if the world is destroyed it's going to most likely be because of us, or something in space. Space, that we can see, observe, travel in, and study.

No prophecy has ever been wrong, as far as I know. I need to know more specifics to be able to help with this one. But you are right, the bible does speak of a meterite or comet, plus World War bringing an end to the World.

Btw, I was just helping you with your questions. I sense that you have become defensive, but I am just answering your questions. Hopefully, I do not offend you. That is NOT what I want to do, nor am I offended by you.

One other thing. There is nothing wrong about questioning the bible or Christianity. In fact, the bible says to test it. So, you are actually acting Christian by asking that guy questions. Look at you, doing what God says you should do.

 

[nickster]

They simply do not know the bible to come up with that. The bible clearly states that the Earth was here way before 10,000 years of human history or whatever.

Clearly?? Wasn't man created on the 6th day?

If you do not take the passage of time of creation in Genesis literally then why the sabbath once a week??

What you are saying is that you can interpret the bible in any way you want, well that puts all organised religion to bed.

 

[SUP3RNOVA]

The bible was never intended to be a science book. How could the bible cover all things creation and still have room for everything else? The bible is mainly a book on spirituality, not natural things. The bible would be the size of a library if it contained all the things you want it to contain.

It's not a science book, correct. But it lies and says the world was created in 7 days, that we all came from Adam, etc. Why couldn't it say "God created the world, but the art of creation is much too complex to explain"? I mean, it doesn't seem like all of the people in the Bible are total idiots...they should be able to understand some basic concepts of astronomy. It'd take a few pages to explain that one day they'll learn science and it will change the fundamentals of this text.

But the bible proved the World was older than 10,000 years old before we did. It did it in Genesis chapter 1. We didnt know that to be fact until modern archeology. Again, the bible was right before we knew it was right.

I'd like to see one thing the Bible proves that isn't a play on words or parable.The Earth can not literally be created before "time". Maybe God had a vision of the world before he created the entire universe/planets and started time...but again this proves nothing and is only philosophy. We study planets, we study the universe, we study things people back then couldn't understand. They used the Bible as their explanation because they didn't know any better. Now we know better.

The reason I am staying in the bible with you is because you asked how to interpret the bible. I am showing you to only take the bible at it's word, not a religious persons view of what they want you to think Christianity is.

I would like evidence from anything but the Bible.

See, you proved a point. At a time when humans were worshipping the Sun (Egypt) That verse was written, and a belief system that shunned worsip of Gods, as in Sun gods.

The point I proved was that I can pull all sorts of conclusions from a fuzzy vague parable. You take a bunch of fancy written (and many times ill translated) Bible verses and draw connections with prophecies it said it would fulfill, and knowledge it gives us. Why would God hide "The world is a sphere" in parables? Did he expect that once smarter humans evolved, they were more likely to believe hidden messages in parables than they were actual knowledge and information?

Take the bible literally.

That is something that you most certainly don't do.You only pick and choose what to take literally and what to leave up to imagination.

No prophecy has ever been wrong, as far as I know. I need to know more specifics to be able to help with this one. But you are right, the bible does speak of a meterite or comet, plus World War bringing an end to the World.

Oh man, World War ending the world...that's a tough one to call out. Don't exactly have to be Jesus to propose that we're going to wipe ourselves out eventually. As far as an exact verse :“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

-Luke 9:27

This is referenced multiple times.

Btw, I was just helping you with your questions. I sense that you have become defensive, but I am just answering your questions.

If anything, I'm being offensive. I'm coming straight at what YOU believe in, mentioning scientific advances that contradict the entire idea of a mythological religion. You're responding back with Bible quotes about prophecy and what the Bible says about the Earth, I would consider that defensive. You're defending Christianity with the Bible, I'm attacking it with common sense and global knowledge.

So, you are actually acting Christian by asking that guy questions.

No I'm not. I'm acting like a human being who is questioning his existence and claiming not to have all the answers.

 

[lukep]

The Bible is very accurate...Take the Bible Literally.

You must have an extremely low standard on the definition of accuracy...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk]YouTube - Quiz Show (Bible Contradictions)[/ame]

 

[trueblue]

+ Rep for hitting the nail on the head on how society works.

We complain many time about narrow minded people, bigots, religious freaks, etc. Not realizing that without them our very own existence as entrepreneurs-marketers would be compromised.

A lot of this thread seems to revolve around how religious people act, especially our families.

I am 100% atheist and I've been through the thought processes of most people here, I was raised completely catholic and all of my family are still religious.

However

What provokes a shitload of thought in me is... Would the world be able to handle if 100%, no even just 10% of it's population actually thought freely? What if societies ways of controlling us didn't affect almost everyone?

What if religion is a good thing because society NEEDS SHEEP?

And in the western world it's not just about religion any more. Most people here are entrepreneurs and probably understand how hard it is to go against the grain. Society has 101 ways of keeping you in line.

Right now I actually think all this manipulation is a good thing. Those who rise above it (and I think of myself as one), deserve to be free. Those who do not, deserve to be controlled.

You can't have a society where everyone is unpredictable. Most people need to act in a predictable way, and the entrepreneurs and true free thinkers will find a way to get society to move ahead anyway. If 99% of the population are just sheep, that's not a bad thing.

 

[nickster]

Unfortunately religion doesn't bread sheep it shepherds them, meaning that they are already sheep and pliable. But by having these sheep under the control of people who do not wish us well and will order them to do things that doesn't do us any good we are being put in a very dangerous and uncomfortable position, especially when the sheep outnumber us free thinkers, which they do. Ever hear of democracy? It's not so good when the sheep are commanded to vote in one direction and it's strictly opposed to yours. That 99% of sheep's votes will always out-trump yours

Also if you want to talk about sheep and control you need to look at communism and fascism and tell me if you would want to live in that regime as a free thinker and entrepreneur.

 

[dsm56]

Unfortunately religion doesn't bread sheep it shepherds them, meaning that they are already sheep and pliable. But by having these sheep under the control of people who do not wish us well and will order them to do things that doesn't do us any good we are being put in a very dangerous and uncomfortable position, especially when the sheep outnumber us free thinkers, which they do. Ever hear of democracy? It's not so good when the sheep are commanded to vote in one direction and it's strictly opposed to yours. That 99% of sheep's votes will always out-trump yours

Also if you want to talk about sheep and control you need to look at communism and fascism and tell me if you would want to live in that regime as a free thinker and entrepreneur.

I think of religion more of the "Brave new world" method of control rather than the 1984 method. People are pretty happy in their sheep little lives, very different to fascism and communism where people do actually feel repressed.

People are happy in their little religions.

Also, what you are saying about sheep voting... Well, that's something that you could use to YOUR advantage. It's all about how much ambition you have and whether you see yourself commanding sheep or not. I certainly do, hey I've got employees already...

I guess it depends whether you believe in OTHER people's freedom or not, or whether you are a Machiavellian freak.

 

[Octane]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMFUPmoH9Ss]YouTube - Ayn Rand - Reason and Religion[/ame]

 

[Avalanche]

I think (personal thoughts, I don't want to cause an uprising here) that religion is for the weak, the people who are too scared to live by their own beliefes

You are correct, and the Bible even agrees with you. Believing Jesus was God requires admission of weakness and usually comes down to being scared after living by ones own beliefs and having that not turn out so well.

 

[markus]

What percentage would you think this makes up?

Then I had a gf who couldn't think for herself and believed everything Christianity said without question because she was told to.

 

[BluuueJammm]

^^^
You're an idiot, I personally knew people the were sent to prison and even had their finger nails pulled out. If they didn't renounce God.

Now go see whos feeding the worlds starving children.

Lol, good to see rusky trolling as usual.

 

[cardine]

What percentage would you think this makes up?

I don't know exactly (I'm sure it depends a lot on location and education), but whatever percentage it is, it's far too high.

 

[ChrisS]

I have mixed opinions on the subject of Christianity. (Jesus fucking rocks IMO) Way too complicated to go into here, though.

However, in the spirit of this thread, I will repeat some Sam Harris propaganda...

Let's say there is an all powerful, omniscient being that created us and loves us more than anything. This beautiful being decided to write a book - just for us - to tell us about him and improve our lives in every way. Think about how amazing a book like this would be.

Do you think it would look anything like the Bible? Not. Fucking. Likely.

Now my own personal opinion...

The Bible reeks of PEOPLE. I laugh at the sheeple who believe in the absolute infallibility of it. "Every chapter and verse was divinely inspired". You gotta be fucking kidding me.

It has...

1. Instructions on how to treat your slaves. Yeah, the all-knowing, all-loving God came up with that....riiiight.
2. Special procedures for the "High Priests" - anyone else who touches holy shit (even by accident) will be killed. Gee, I wonder who put this in.
3. All the "begats". And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; / And Josias begat Jechonias. People that say that these are important and God included them to prove Jesus' lineage...BULLSHIT. This just smacks of a small group of people trying to hold onto their culture and background in a dangerously integrative, hostile environment. TONS of other talk and warnings about not integrating with other cultures in the Bible btw.
4. Negative opinions about gays and women. "Hey I'm God and I'm going to make girls and fags - but I'm going to make them inferior to everyone else and put the instructions in mah book".
5. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Good call, God. Thanks for the new property and free tight pussy!
6. Speaking of property...All the property rules. Hell, just look at the ten commandments. You really think God cares about who owns the fucking donkey? Who would care? Oh, I don't know...maybe camp elders who want to keep some semblance of order in their fucking dusty-ass shithole.
7. Blaming environmental disasters on God. Every backwater, ignorant culture in history has used God as the reason that something terrible happened. Extra points if they can blame the disaster on God's judgement of the people. Hey at least the bible sacrificed goats instead of virgins.
8. "We're God's chosen people" - HAHA yeah if I was in the group of people who wrote the Bible I'd put that in there too. It has worked though. Many Jews actually believe it and that's why they have been so goddamn successful throughout history - No matter what awful situation and fucked up country they have lived in. Alexander the Great was convinced by his Mother that he was a God...He wouldn't have practically became one otherwise.
9. "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. " Oh that's right, I already picked on the priests. My bad.

I could go on and on, but I'll spare you.

 

[Andrey]

I disagree. Truly, we are all Agnostic. Every single human being on earth. Why? Cause we don't know shit. Admitting you don't know shit is the first step to not being an asshole. After that you can have your own ideas and what feels right but none of us can ever be anything other that literally Agnostic.

/thread

 

[Berto]

Congrats dude. Now here's your reading material to start seeing what the TRUTH is. It's not exactly easy reading because shit doesn't work in easy ways:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0192860925]Amazon.com: The Selfish Gene (9780192860927): Richard Dawkins: Books[/ame]
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Red-Queen-Evolution-Human-Nature/dp/0060556579/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1299831248&sr=1-2]Amazon.com: The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature (9780060556570): Matt Ridley: Books[/ame]

I personally think you should let your sisters be. It's most likely going to get you nowhere but negative, and if religion keeps them happy and safe, then good. That's basically the whole point - keep people in check because they need to be else all shit hits the fan.