Ah, Religion - My Short Story

lukep said:
Get that off a fortune cookie?

1. Atheists don't go around trying to convert Christians. -At least I've never heard of a case... We pretty much just like to keep to ourselves because we know how hard it is to do so, and would find it more fun to eat shards of glass than talk about the inner workings of the bible.

Christians on the the other hand make it their BUSINESS (very literally) to go out and convert anyone else to Christianity. Many wars have started over exactly that, and things like that plus the Inquisition have left christians with absolutely NO PLACE WHATSOEVER to accuse anyone else with "always trying to convince" others of their beliefs. Pot Kettle Black.


2. Yes, we like anyone else have come to believe some things, like things that are supported with facts and lots of evidence. But our basis for doing so is based upon reason, and we damn well make it a point not to "believe" things that aren't well proven.

We even use the word differently than you do. It quite literally has a different meaning to us; The religious seem to lazily apply the word belief to mean something that you have been convinced of (internally) on any level.

Meanwhile an Atheist will try to avoid using the word at all times unless cornered, because it assumes a much larger burden of evidence to us... We'd be embarrassed to say "I believe all sheep are white" and then find out later that black or even off-white sheep exist. -That would lessen our feeling of self worth or integrity.

And don't even get me started on faith... That is something just about impossible to prove exists among us at all.
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Yea, I was kinda trollin with that last statement, just because the poster said "lack of belief = belief" in a sarcastic way.

But on point 2, when was the last war a christian started for Christianity? The inquisition was started to regain control of Jerusalem from the Muslims and to stop the Muslim invasion that wastaking place at the time.
 


lukep said:
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!

"A belief in the Disbelief!" -Now I've heard it all!

I can't speak for all atheists, but I personally have never had to believe that I don't believe in the easter bunny...

Although I'd be inclined to believe in the disbelief of believing in god among atheists if the need to disbelieve in something unbelievable presents itself. ;)

Are you trollin'?
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Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

You hold a belief that there is no deity.

So, yes. You believe in the disbelief of a deity.

the_more_you_know2.jpg
 
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^It's just a silly concept though; Believing in the disbelief of something is a double negative... It's the same thing as forgetting the non-rememberance of something.

BTW, props for the more you Know piccy... I haven't seen that since watching GI Joe as a wee tike.
 
lukep said:
^It's just a silly concept though; Believing in the disbelief of something is a double negative... It's the same thing as forgetting the non-rememberance of something.

BTW, props for the more you Know piccy... I haven't seen that since watching GI Joe as a wee tike.
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That's not a double negative.
 
I'm not going to read this whole thread -- but for anyone who wants to have some humorous yet deep thoughts about god and religion should go pick up some late works by Twain. "Letters from the Earth" I think includes all of his religious writing including the diary of adam and eve.

You will learn important things like why the FLY is more important in gods eye than you are, and how you are just here to incubate bacteria. You'll also learn why you are so eager to go to heaven to do all the things you hate to do now -- ie listen to a group of people sing gospels, play the harp, pray all day, etc...
 
Don't any of you asshole know that L Ron Hubbard is the one true God.

"Hold these cans. Now pay me 5000 bucks. Holy shit you just got promoted to Saint!"
 
I didn't read what everyone had to say. But I wanted to share my experiences in case anyone was interested.

BTW - I try to speak from experience, and not from what I've been taught.

I'm a believer in Jesus. And, from what I've read, the focus of the entire bible is to reveal Jesus. That's the bibles Job. The bible isn't there to tell us how to live, or what's good and bad. It's Job is to show us who Jesus is.

Why does this matter? Who care's who Jesus is anyway?
Good question. This, as far as I'm concerned, is the coolest thing that you could ever realize.

Quick story...
One time my wife had a tooth pulled out. Unfortunately, three days later it got infected. Really bad. To the point where she had to take 3 Vicodin a day just to quench some of the pain. The infection spread to her jaw bone, (it showed in some x-rays) and she was unable to open her jaw. Not sure how that works, but she was unable to eat or anything.

This is where it get's weird...
My wife and I opened the bible. And to the best of our ability, tried to remember everywhere God made promises about healing. As far as I was concerned, I had no more options. If this didn't work, my wife was done. (You would think I would have tried this first if I was really a believer :P)

Immediately, the pain had left my wife. And she could eat again. Shortly after (about five minutes) she had fallen asleep cause she hadn't slept in days due to the pain.

This was one of the many experiences I've had so far in my life where I cannot, without a doubt, explain how it happend apart from Jesus. There is no way.

I don't wanna make it sound like it's just about healings. It's not. It's like saying God is all about teaching. Or God is all about being good.

Debating the bible can go on forever. There's a place for it, but it never really seems to be productive. And I honestly don't think that either side cares. What the majority seem to want is not a religion, it's something that's real.

The message of Jesus is not that if you don't believe, you go to hell. His message is about a reality (God himself) that you can receive that's completely different than anything the world has to offer.

You can receive him and this reality free of charge. Just ask him.

red-pill-or-blue-pill.jpg


Ok, now i'm off to go make some coin.
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
Without the fluff meaning...without the church ceremonies and that whole thing? Or without the crazy stuff like original sin coming from Man vs. Snake and eating off the tree of all knowledge?

There seems to lie another problem with most modern Christians I've come to know...they only pick and choose what they want to believe in. For instance :

Many Christians don't agree with the ideas of Creationism, and understand/accept evolution. "The people of that time couldn't understand science and evolution, so God made it simple for them" is the excuse used...I've used it before. Okay, so we're admitting the world wasn't made in 7 days because we KNOW it wasn't. But it makes perfect sense that it's possible for God to put himself into human form on a suicide mission to save humanity (and turn water into wine while he's at it), and believing that is the only way to be saved? That sounds just as ridiculous as "The world was made in 7 days." And much like we have science to disprove the crude science of the Bible, history over time will have revealed a much different story line...that nobody is "coming back" to save us.



Scientific proof IS valid and it can negate false statements made by 5,000 year old text books. I understand not being able to understand supernatural in a natural world, so why are you trying to understand it? Given your own ruleset, you should never be able to understand religion because it exists in a place you don't. Going by that, you should have no idea what religion is the correct one, as we would have no evidence here in the natural world. Any evidence you have holds the exact same weight as the evidence the Muslim next to you has...and only 1 of you are going to heaven.

*COMMON SENSE BREAK : If you were God and had to write a holy text that people for thousands of years to come would follow, would you have a bunch of MEN write it, YEARS after the events happened? Why not just write it yourself and make it fall from the sky? Wouldn't that be RIDICULOUS?*

Blind faith is ignorance, end of story. If mankind was created for a reason, the reason certainly wasn't to worship 1 man for eternity.
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You actually don't KNOW if the earth was made in 7 days or not, unless you were there, and even that would be an assumption. Also, many Christians do agree with creationism, so thats another assumption. How do we have science to disprove the crude science of the Bible? Science can't prove anything. Its simply repeated experiments over and over that are called laws, but they are simply likelihoods. Also, you seem to have a lot of 'faith' in modern science. Unless science is advanced to the farthest end possible for all of time, you can't know anything with certainty about the "validity" of modern science. Remember when people that thought the earth was round were laughed at? Or how do you know you aren't in the matrix but its revealed to you later, you don't know.

Scientific "proof" of what is valid? The scientific method is full of logical fallacies and is not "valid" at all. It has many flaws. Why do you think its always changing? Once again, its only used to measure probabilities and likelihoods, which is useful, but nothing more. In fact, it would be impossible to negate anything from 5000 years ago, unless you were there performing the scientific method repeatedly on various situations and events, which you thought were false at the time. And those "facts" would still involve interpretation, and could be skewed by your presumptions.

I never said that one could not understand the supernatural in a "natural' world, but rather said that IF the supernatural does exist in the world, it would not be found through "natural" means of study, which is only empirical or "scientific." Although, thats not fully true, but I'm speaking to you who is assuming that it would be.

But if you are already presupposing, supernatural does not exist, you could not see it. For example...someone is dying of cancer, the doctor/science says that the person only has 6 weeks to live, instead the person lives 6 years. If you are presupposing nothing supernatural, you would say,"the person lived because the doctor was simply giving a highly probable situation, and the less likely event happened, nothing more." Someone presupposing supernatural might say,"It was a miracle, and I had prayed."

Yes, I agree, blind faith, or lets call it irrational or uneducated faith is not a good thing, blind faith in "religions" or "science" or "people."
 
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catalyst00 said:
Quick story...
One time my wife had a tooth pulled out. Unfortunately, three days later it got infected. Really bad. To the point where she had to take 3 Vicodin a day just to quench some of the pain. The infection spread to her jaw bone, (it showed in some x-rays) and she was unable to open her jaw. Not sure how that works, but she was unable to eat or anything.

This is where it get's weird...
My wife and I opened the bible. And to the best of our ability, tried to remember everywhere God made promises about healing. As far as I was concerned, I had no more options. If this didn't work, my wife was done. (You would think I would have tried this first if I was really a believer :P)

Immediately, the pain had left my wife. And she could eat again. Shortly after (about five minutes) she had fallen asleep cause she hadn't slept in days due to the pain.
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Ok, so the family of an innocent little 5 year old with leukemia prays like mad over the bible for her to get better but their baby daughter dies a few days later in agony and you have the balls to say that God fixed your wifes toothache because you prayed, cummon!

@bbywyboy - How did you post your message? How do you surf the internet? How do you drive to work (or not)? How is your house heated? How does your watch work? Without scientific "proof", as you put it, how do all these things happen, faith?

How can you even to start to reconcile using the internet and then criticize science saying there is no proof? Very shortsighted in my opinion.
 
catalyst00 said:
I didn't read what everyone had to say. But I wanted to share my experiences in case anyone was interested.

BTW - I try to speak from experience, and not from what I've been taught.

I'm a believer in Jesus. And, from what I've read, the focus of the entire bible is to reveal Jesus. That's the bibles Job. The bible isn't there to tell us how to live, or what's good and bad. It's Job is to show us who Jesus is.

Why does this matter? Who care's who Jesus is anyway?
Good question. This, as far as I'm concerned, is the coolest thing that you could ever realize.

Quick story...
One time my wife had a tooth pulled out. Unfortunately, three days later it got infected. Really bad. To the point where she had to take 3 Vicodin a day just to quench some of the pain. The infection spread to her jaw bone, (it showed in some x-rays) and she was unable to open her jaw. Not sure how that works, but she was unable to eat or anything.

This is where it get's weird...
My wife and I opened the bible. And to the best of our ability, tried to remember everywhere God made promises about healing. As far as I was concerned, I had no more options. If this didn't work, my wife was done. (You would think I would have tried this first if I was really a believer :P)

Immediately, the pain had left my wife. And she could eat again. Shortly after (about five minutes) she had fallen asleep cause she hadn't slept in days due to the pain.

This was one of the many experiences I've had so far in my life where I cannot, without a doubt, explain how it happend apart from Jesus. There is no way.

I don't wanna make it sound like it's just about healings. It's not. It's like saying God is all about teaching. Or God is all about being good.

Debating the bible can go on forever. There's a place for it, but it never really seems to be productive. And I honestly don't think that either side cares. What the majority seem to want is not a religion, it's something that's real.

The message of Jesus is not that if you don't believe, you go to hell. His message is about a reality (God himself) that you can receive that's completely different than anything the world has to offer.

You can receive him and this reality free of charge. Just ask him.

red-pill-or-blue-pill.jpg


Ok, now i'm off to go make some coin.
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bro you are smoking straight up crack or just ignorant if you think that your faith helped your wifes tooth in any way or fashion.
 
There is not one religion. There is not one belief... not one idea... because we are unique... and far more different from 'special children'.
However, we CAN come orgy and gangbang on one common understanding...

...that a perfect creation such as the earth could not be made JUST by mere big bang or some form of radioactive dusts and stuffs combine to mean evolution, or years of changing into perfection... some one could have redirected it.or single handedly command it. yeah zapp the crap out of it. who knows? someone beyond our 'just now' WISDOM...

no to any institution or religion...we can be one and just free fuck all you want around the world... and talk peace.
 
...and fuck hell to one time when i was INVITED to join in one special occassion of one "born-again" fanatics group...made me sit infront, with a dog-glee-show-flashy teeth-and-gums smile. Yeah i know twas fake... and then came the sermon...mocking my current religion of some deepest sort..was like sitting duck being preyed...and they mae me stand in front and hover their hands over me while others mummble dunno chants (they say speaking in tongues, fuck!) and made me close my eyes. drums rollin...was peepin one eye all the while...was thinkin, shit, this is more like woodstock or grundge...


but...


they never did convinced me to really join their fanatic cult or group...shit...
and y would they talk shit obout one religion, but, sing praises for their own? shouldn't we be having just the SAME belief, or SAME God?


damn, should've gone that sunday to my girlfriend's dorm and fuck instead... (althou I did after that freak show in the late evening...)

^_^
 
mgtarheels said:
Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

You hold a belief that there is no deity.

So, yes. You believe in the disbelief of a deity.
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I don't hold a belief that there is no deity, I simply don't believe in God. There's a difference.

Imagine that you're debating against someone who believes in Zeus. He argues that his belief in Zeus is no different from your disbelief in Zeus, i.e. they're both beliefs. Do you see the absurdity in dealing with such a person?

That's what we're dealing with here.
 
writtenstyle said:
Ok. Give me a contradiction. I'm at ihop so I don't want to go back and find your previous statements
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Google "Bible contradictions" and you'll find hundreds.

bbywyboy said:
You actually don't KNOW if the earth was made in 7 days or not, unless you were there, and even that would be an assumption.
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Really?

Any religious answer to anything is ALWAYS philosophical bullshit. I'm not denying the existence of a supernatural being, I'm denying the specific stories of organized religion that takes advantage of the POSSIBILITY of a supreme being.

We have science for a reason, and we know that the Earth wasn't made in 7 days. If your mind can't accept that as fact, that proves how easy it is for it to be molded.

Does the wall behind you exist right now? Without looking at it, neither you or I can answer that question with proof. But you would probably answer "Yes, there is a wall behind me right now". I'd ask "Why?". You'd turn around and say "Look, there it is."

Does evolution exist and an Earth that was created over billions of years? Without being there to see it, neither you or I can answer that question with proof. But I would probably answer "Yes, the Earth was created over billions of years and humans have evolved from single celled organisms". You'd ask "Why?". I'd grab all the scientific research, study of space, and say "Look, there it is."

I'm 100% open to the idea of a supernatural being, supreme order, simulated reality, etc. But one thing humanity is learned over time is that we prove things with...wait for it...proof...it's how we learn and grow as a species. Since it's impossible to prove and comprehend religion, there's no reason to completely mold my life to play by it's rules. It'd be stupid and ignorant of me as an intelligent human being. I'll burn in hell if it means encouraging people to think for themselves and actually grow, instead of being in this sort of stagnation with having all of the answers already figured out.

God when creating the universe and divine structure - "I will make it unbelievably hard for any smart human being with reason to believe in my doctrine. I only want slaves (soldiers, zombies) in my glorious heaven, anybody that exercises the free will I gave them or doesn't believe in me on 100% blind faith will burn and suffer forever. No second chances, no apologies...burn."
 
There are as many views on Christianity and what it entails as there are Christians. The problem with Christianity is that so many people have pissed in the pool already its just not a healthy place to play any more. The bystanders getting splashed by the piss-filled pool water become outraged and it all deteriorates into a bitch fest with neither side backing down.

Religion is a personal thing. People who can't find their own direction in life, take it from god, it makes them feel better to 'know' things are taken care of. It makes them feel better to 'know' someone is listening to their troubles and there to tell them where to go. A lot of people need that reassurance, some go to religion, some go to fortune tellers, some go to their friends or figure it out themselves. Some people take it too seriously because they have severe emotional conflicts or nothing better to do. The human race as a whole is still very emotionally immature and we find immature ways of dealing with things like an imaginary friend... I think the problem is that society still accepts this as a good thing to be doing. You won't get anywhere arguing with religion because they have an answer for everything and their beliefs are unshakeable. If you have a need to battle it, try and do it peacefully. Join something like the church of FSM, if they argue, tell them that your god is very tolerant of their religion and welcomes them into his heaven, you'd appreciate it if they showed some tolerance back. If they keep on it, then you have the whole 'Flying spaghetti monster has more basis for being real than your god does' argument to fall back on. It was designed as an argument against intelligent design and it does it in good humour whilst encouraging acceptance. If noodly appendages don't do it for you, there are plenty of other absurd analogies or you can pretty much make your own. Have fun with it at least, arguing seriously will cause you more stress than you need.
 
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