Ah, Religion - My Short Story

Well, since all three books (3rd is the Torah) all contain similar stories, at least back to Abraham, it could be said he believes in the religion that was around at the time the Old Testament was new... Back before the three religions really split.

Either way he's a dumbass.
 


Dude are you ah trollin now?

Since Tom = Jerry and Cartoons = Disney, Tom = Santa Clause

You need to just stop. Stop arguing with family. Stop posting. Go read everything Sam Harris ever wrote and don't post again till your either born again or can lift yourself above this petty religion conflict.

“You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend”
~Richard Jeni
 
Unfortunately I need actual scriptural evidence. The best argument I have now is that God would have no reason to be that deceptive in speaking about religion, or how man recorded religion. The factual knowledge we have today about religion is simply not enough to grant any confidence in the idea...at all.

In order to completely win the argument I need information directly from scripture unfortunately (either the Torah, Qur'an, or Bible)
 
Uptime said:
You need to just stop. Stop arguing with family. Stop posting. Go read everything Sam Harris ever wrote and don't post again till your either born again or can lift yourself above this petty religion conflict.

“You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend”
~Richard Jeni
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Chillax. This is one forum thread where I discuss conversations between 3-4 people in real life.

You're just as much of a reason why humanity stagnates it's own evolution as a product of free will. You just don't give a shit that billions of people's minds are corrupt, and that the only way to fix that problem is by acting on it.

Selfish assholes -just like the religious- are the reason we're eventually going to destroy ourselves...maybe that's just the angry just-dereligulized part of me talking but that's what makes sense.

Don't preach atheism, but for the love of god don't preach man-made and man-written religions as fact and law to live by (with eternal damnation up for grabs). Preach morals, UNSELFISHNESS, free will, and survival. If only it were a perfect world...
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
Chillax. This is one forum thread where I discuss conversations between 3-4 people in real life.

You're just as much of a reason why humanity stagnates it's own evolution as a product of free will. You just don't give a shit that billions of people's minds are corrupt, and that the only way to fix that problem is by acting on it.

Selfish assholes -just like the religious- are the reason we're eventually going to destroy ourselves...maybe that's just the angry just-dereligulized part of me talking but that's what makes sense.

Don't preach atheism, but for the love of god don't preach man-made and man-written religions as fact and law to live by (with eternal damnation up for grabs). Preach morals, UNSELFISHNESS, free will, and survival. If only it were a perfect world...
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Chillax indeed.
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
Chillax. This is one forum thread where I discuss conversations between 3-4 people in real life.

You're just as much of a reason why humanity stagnates it's own evolution as a product of free will. You just don't give a shit that billions of people's minds are corrupt, and that the only way to fix that problem is by acting on it.

Selfish assholes -just like the religious- are the reason we're eventually going to destroy ourselves...maybe that's just the angry just-dereligulized part of me talking but that's what makes sense.

Don't preach atheism, but for the love of god don't preach man-made and man-written religions as fact and law to live by (with eternal damnation up for grabs). Preach morals, UNSELFISHNESS, free will, and survival. If only it were a perfect world...
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You got some issues.
Go talk to a worm or a monkey, see if that might calm down you're soul.
Or get over your little mind experiment, and be happy.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXKT8IPdvzA"]YouTube - Why I hate religion - Mark Driscoll[/ame]
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
If only you argued your side, instead of proving my point.
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Hellblazer?
I don't see the argument. You have extreme internal conflict. I believe I have read most of this thread. Sit down with Sam or Buddha or whatever you need. I suggested Sam because I believe it will help you right now. No matter which way you end up going. Your calling me out because you are in phase 1 of morphing to a real person instead of guided bot you have been programmed to be since birth. Your incensed that everyone doesn't see the way you do now that the blinders have partially been lifted. I know because I went thru the same thing. It is okay to be angry now. No problem this will pass. You are going to love the next stage. I guarantee you will be more at peace than any lie you were led to believe.

I'm a bit past all this now so best of luck and I hope the best for you.
 
i have been there a few years ago, the questions you will ask won't change your mindset or the pastor
you just have 2 different perspectives on life , and there is no question that will clarify anything for both of you

you have to ask yourself what you plan to do from now

maybe you are on your way to a spiritual journey(spiritual doesn't mean you go to a church)

i suggest you take a ticket to India, where you will experience the first religions in the world, and the variety and all these coexist,
it may help you to rely on people from different faiths
or go on your own journey regarding your actual thinking, trust your intuition on this matters
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
Chillax. This is one forum thread where I discuss conversations between 3-4 people in real life.

You're just as much of a reason why humanity stagnates it's own evolution as a product of free will. You just don't give a shit that billions of people's minds are corrupt, and that the only way to fix that problem is by acting on it.

Selfish assholes -just like the religious- are the reason we're eventually going to destroy ourselves...maybe that's just the angry just-dereligulized part of me talking but that's what makes sense.

Don't preach atheism, but for the love of god don't preach man-made and man-written religions as fact and law to live by (with eternal damnation up for grabs). Preach morals, UNSELFISHNESS, free will, and survival. If only it were a perfect world...
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A lot of books have been recommended to you for reading. Sure, they're predominantly atheist books, but I doubt there's many agnosticist books about. And there certainly won't be any decent material for winning arguments in them.

You also have to accept you won't win any arguments with people ruled by superstition (their position requires no answers...) and you certainly won't without educating yourself with something atheist like The God Delusion. It'll answer questions and provide you with the argument material you require.

I know you don't consider yourself atheist and seemingly don't want to go the full distance, but reading and watching people like Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and perhaps more so Grayling in your case (he's a philosophy professor) will provide you with the mental clarity that you probably require.

This isn't about winning arguments, it's about dealing with your opinion, solidifying your position and being able to rise above the tide of stupidity that will try and pull you back within. Look, like uptime says, you're on the way to being free, don't find a new crutch, grab something atheist and understand the other side of the argument - which will help you get some clarity after years of brain-washing.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6oOLJ_zbm0]YouTube - A.C. Grayling: "Teach the Controversy"[/ame]
 
Rusky said:
You got some issues.
Go talk to a worm or a monkey, see if that might calm down you're soul.
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Coming from the guy who talks to dead people.

Uptime said:
Hellblazer?
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Yeah that shit looked like straight Hellblazer, I had just gotten back from the bar.

While I'm not nearly as hostile about it now, it still does upset me. I understand now that any attempts to argue will all wind up the same, but I still think it's important to challenge people's intellect. Unfortunately religion sprays sand in the eyes of intellect, making it hard and painful to argue.
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
Bumping this due to a talk with a friend (instead of starting a new thread).

He says he believes in Jesus and is a Christian, but also thinks his Muslim friends will be in heaven with him. Any direct lines from scripture that differentiate this?

Anything I've been able to find in the Bible uses the world Lord, which my friend says "Since Jesus = Lord and Lord = Yaweh, Jesus = Yaweh."

I suppose it's dumb logic to begin with but I called him out on that and he basically said nothing and brought up another point. Is there anything directly from Christian/Muslim exact-translation scripture that speaks against this?
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I dont think that is line with the bible IN ANY WAY. Here are some reasons:
"there is no God but one" 1 Corinthians 8:4
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
"Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
"I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21

It is an either or kinda thing. Here is why. God is a jealous God:
“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God” Exodus 20:4-5
 
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writtenstyle said:
I dont think that is line with the bible IN ANY WAY. Here are some reasons:
"there is no God but one" 1 Corinthians 8:4
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
"Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
"I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
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Muslims believe in the same God we do (the one true God).

God is a jealous God
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Jealously doesn't seem to be a trait that a God-figure would possess. He is all knowing, all powerful, all loving, all caring, and eternal...I don't see many reasons to be jealous of a few human beings but hey, I'm not God.
 
SUP3RNOVA said:
Coming from the guy who talks to dead people.
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I dont talk to dead people.

But I'm not surprised you feel this way. After selling thousands of rebills, the conscience goes away. ;) I kid.

Dont feel bad I was brain washed the other way. My mom was a physics professor back in the atheist USSR (we invented chemical evolution). I grew up on this shit. That country is nothing but a bunch of drunks now.
 
Just a clarification and I am no Biblical Scholar but I recalled the Matthew 24:32-34 verse about this generation not passing away - I recalled that was referring to those that had seen the "signs" mentioned in the previous verses.

So I pulled the Amplified Bible text from Bible Gateway
Matthew 24:32-34 - PassageGAYLookup - Amplified Bible - BibleGateway.com

Matthew 24:32-34 (Amplified Bible)

32From the fig tree learn this lesson: as soon as its [a]young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near.

33So also when you see these signs, [c]all taken together, coming to pass, you may know [d]of a surety that He is near, at the very doors.

34Truly I tell you, this generation ([e]the whole multitude of people living at the same time, [f]in a definite, [g]given period) will not pass away till all these things [h]taken together take place.



Footnotes:

1. Matthew 24:32 Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.
2. Matthew 24:32 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
3. Matthew 24:33 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
4. Matthew 24:33 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
5. Matthew 24:34 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
6. Matthew 24:34 Hermann Cremer, Biblico-Theological Lexicon.
7. Matthew 24:34 G. Abbott-Smith, Manual Greek Lexicon.
8. Matthew 24:34 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
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And to me, it is referring to those that have seen the signs. Not to those that he was talking to at the time.
 
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