What legal questions do you have about IM?

you can feel free to skip this question if you want:

would YOU run rebills after the updated FTC guidelines?

I would, and do (as a merchant). The key is compliance, which long-term is going to be good for this industry (even though it probably doesn't feel that way now).

Rebills aren't dead. I'll repeat that, Rebills..Aren't..Dead. Scammy-hidden termed-no customer support-impossible to cancel- rebilling twice in 14 days-non shipping rebills ARE dead, however. The sooner the industry starts realizing that this is actually a Good thing, the faster people can get back to making money.

Columbia House has been around for decades, who over the age of 30 here hasn't at some time ordered 10 CDs (or tapes) for a penny at some point? Not many I bet. Netflix is very obviously a rebill, your gym membership is probably a rebill. When you think about it, a simple magazine subscription is a version of a rebill. Its been around a long time folks, and its not going away quite yet, even with all the acai/teeth whitening/biz-opp crap that has nearly destroyed it.

Compliance is going to be the name of the game now, IMHO. Sure, you aren't going to see those great eCPCs of the past from the old shady stuff. There is going to be more and more push for disclosure, ability to opt-out, restriction on claims, etc. Better to make some money pushing ACTUAL products that deliver some sort of value, even if the eCPC you used to have is lower now, then nothing at all. Right?

<ok, getting off my soapbox now>
 


Thanks for all the positive feedback guys, good to know its appreciated. A bunch of you have sent PMs with your specific private legal issue. Please refer to OP, I'm only going to answer general legal questions that I think apply to more than one WF member, and it has to be a publicly posted comment so everyone can benefit.

Depending on how much actual work I get done today, I will take a few more of these, they are good practice and keep me sharp. It's good to see that a lot of the things I've seen IMers doing wrong/poorly are the exact kinds of questions you guys have been asking about. Keep the good ones coming.
 
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That kind of analysis tells me you might like law school ;)

You are 100% right, so much of this stuff is vague and uncertain, many people have this (incorrect) belief that the Law is very black and white.Its not, and its becoming even more gray in the Internet age.

In a speech I gave, people tended to like my example of a "brick in a wall" so I'll use it here by way of example. If I walk into court with a stack of printed out email messages, we all know I could have edited them, added new stuff, deleted out the ones that hurt my case, etc. A judge (should) know that too,so he is going to assign less "value" to something like vs. a sworn statement notarized by the Pope, that Jane told John XYZ in an email conversation. A stack of random emails I say are originals is not as big of a brick in my wall (wall =case/legal claim) but it still better than nothing at all. A Pope-notarized affidavit is a bigger brick.

No case is ever 100% bullet-proof, you can't always have giant bricks to make your case stronger. The more little bricks you can put together, the better your odds are though. Do I think my random legal disclaimers at the bottom of emails I send to clients every day are going to absolve me of liability if I handle their case wrong? Nope, but its better than nothing, its a small brick. I've never seen a case where one side had 100% of the proof, life doesn't work that way.

99% of legal issues get resolved outside of court, much of that is having built a strong enough wall that the other side either is scared to tangle with you, or knows it will be too expensive to justify. So add disclaimers, think twice before posting Oprah pics, pay for your stock photos, incoroprate, etc. all this stuff adds up, and at the end of the day, the more bricks you have the better.

The brick in the wall example is a great analogy, thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions. Much appreciated!

Also instead of doing an ebook maybe hold a 1 day seminar with a few other IM/FTC Lawyers. Kind of how the gurus do their boot camps but all on IM legal issues. From proper biz setup, copyright, etc. I would def pay a lot to attend one.

I know you focus on IM instead of your legal practice but a 1 day event somewhere nice might be fun and good for networking too.
 
These are all really good ideas, +rep. I've toyed with some variations, but at the end of day, I chose IM over my legal practice because it pays A LOT more, so I'm not in too big of a hurry to jump back into that grind for 60 hour weeks at a billable rate ;)
If there is a way to scale up,sell it as an info product, or refer it out to local attorneys in each jurisdiction (our professional rules on fee-splitting are ridiculously complex) that's the angle that appeals to me. There are way too many Internet husslers out there doing stupid things that are costing them money that could be addressed with some Legal 101 info.

thanks for the post.

Pretty much second what Berto said (what you replied to above). I understand you don't want to get back into legal work, but a brochure like that could be a great marketing tool for an IM lawyer. Keep it relatively high level, but show that you know your stuff, give it away for free or relatively cheap, and make money from new clients. Like you said in your first post, I'd feel much more comfortable hiring a lawyer who I know can hit the ground running in this area, than putting some guy on an expensive retainer and basically pay for him educating himself.

If you don't want to take on new clients, think of that idea with referring clients to other experts in the field. Cos I have the same question Berto had at the end:
"How do I find out if this Lawyer XYZ is really good at Internet Marketing? What questions do I ask to 'test' them?"

A pure e-book or similar info product will just get pirated. If that's your main revenue source, you make a few sales and that's it. Probably not worth your while given the time it takes to create a good one and your billing rates.

PS: This thread should be a sticky.
 
I don't know if this will apply to anyone else, but it's of value to me.

Can someone claim a copyright infringement or unfair use if I redirect a domain I own to a page on their website?

For example, if I registered a random domain name, unrelated to the "victim" and redirected to their site, no defamation of character or anything. Do they have any legal recourse to demand removal of the redirection?

And the potential twist: what if I was receiving monetary compensation to do so?
 
Quote:
"How do I find out if this Lawyer XYZ is really good at Internet Marketing? What questions do I ask to 'test' them?"

I've been thinking more about this one, a few people have asked me now. Truth be told, I'm not sure there is a "Gotcha" list that applies to different kinds of IM cases in picking an attorney who can hang.

Realistically, there are almost no attorneys out there that truly have an underlying understanding of the IM game and its legal ramifications. That isn't to brag, its just that these are two very different worlds. Both have alot of very smart, hard-working people that adapt quickly, but they attract different mindsets, its hard to be good in both.

The underlying legal issues at the core are fairly standard though. Copyright claims, taking whats not yours, suing someone for not paying what they owe, etc are all widespread legal issues outside of the online arena. Once an attorney realizes how IM stuff "sits on top" of the core legal issues we all learned in law school, its simply a matter of applying it to the unique setting of the internet (no walls, no geographic barriers, varying jurisdictions, etc). If a smart attorney knows basic contract interpretation, he can adapt his knowledge to figure out how to apply it to say, a client getting screwed out of CPA lead monies owed by a network who took their cut but allowed a merchant reversal of the aff's cut due to poor lead quality, (this happens).

I guess a sample question that would show whether they are either already familiar with the game or can at least educate themselves quickly is, "Can you assist me on doing a DMCA takedown if someone has my copyrighted material on their website?" That law is very clear cut, so any attorney should at least be able to look it up and answer "Yes". They might not know how to start off (most don't) but they should be able to figure it out within an hour of the first time a client asks. I did ;)
 
I HAVE A LEGAL QUESTION FOR YOU ALL

DOES CAN-SPAM AND OTHER BS AMERICAN LAWS APPLY TO CANADIANS ? AS A CANADIAN, CAN I DO WHATEVER I WANT BECAUSE OUR LAWS ARE PRETTY CHILL
 
I don't know if this will apply to anyone else, but it's of value to me.

Can someone claim a copyright infringement or unfair use if I redirect a domain I own to a page on their website?

For example, if I registered a random domain name, unrelated to the "victim" and redirected to their site, no defamation of character or anything. Do they have any legal recourse to demand removal of the redirection?

And the potential twist: what if I was receiving monetary compensation to do so?

As I understand your question, probably not. For example, acquaintances of mine think its funny to register URLs like "erectile dysfunction sufferer.com" and then 301 point them at other buddies blogs and things, or register their buddies names as URLs and point them to wikipedia articles about sexually transmitted diseases and such (ya, I know.. real mature)
The first example I would say very low risk, the second is a little harder, but only because of the potential character defamation issue.

I'm assuming in your example you are maybe redirecting it with an affiliate link or something, but they should be handling that by refusing to pay you commissions if that is the case. Its pretty hard to sue someone just for linking to your website, but I'd probably take it down as a matter of courtesy if they raised a fuss. If you are iFraming it or using their page content without permission that's a different problem, but with the details you provided I find it hard to see a specific legal claim they could bring. Sorry, that's a tough one without knowing the details.
 
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Pseudo-Quote: I got banned/slapped by Google/Facebook for no good reason. Is that legal if I didn't do anything wrong?

OK, so I have had about 10 PMs like this. The short answer is: businesses get to choose who they want to be in business with. They are under no legal obligation to hear your story/defend why they banned you/give you a second chance, etc. Free speech rights don't over-ride a business's right to NOT do business with someone. Maybe they really did ban you because of your religion, political views, haircut, or whatever, but:
1) You are never going to be able to prove why they banned you.
2) No court will ever "force" a company to do business with someone they don't want to do business with, whether their reason is stupid or not.

My experience with Google is, you can send legal letters to them all day long, they simply don't respond. I'm sure their attorneys tell them "don't respond." I can assure you that Google DOES NOT CARE that you spent $x,xxxx,xxxx with them, no advertiser is important enough to risk setting that precedent that the advertisers can call the shots and force Google to let them back in.

Never had a suit involving Facebook, but you are basically going to run into the same problems, just with a smaller, newer, less-well run company that never even pretended to care if people think they are "evil" or not.

Now, go sign up for a new account from a different IP with a different credit card, and swap out the URLs you are sending traffic to, and get back to advertising :)
 
I just thought of another one. Is it within the law to take an image from somewhere as long as you modify/photoshop it? Like maybe overlay some opaque text over it or something? Given we're not taking images of people of course
 
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I've got a question about how the FTC guidelines effect affiliate links and such in blogs. Say you're making a regular blog post or website promoting a product, talking about it or whatever maybe saying your experience with it. As I understand the new guidelines say you have to disclose that you're an affiliate or are getting monetary compensation for promoting the product. How far do we have to go to disclose that. Do we have to put right by the link (THIS IS AN AFFILIATE LINK I"M GETTING PAID FOR) or something silly or do we need something perhaps at the bottom of the article saying such. Or is it sufficient to have a disclosure page on your site perhaps linked in the footer on all pages saying that you may be an affiliate for products you promote or talk about and would get paid for them.
 
I just thought of another one. Is it within the law to take an image from somewhere as long as you modify/photoshop it? Like maybe overlay some opaque text over it or something? Given we're not taking images of people of course

That's a good question, though I don't have a simple answer. Under copyright law, anyone can "reference" copyrighted written material, refer to it, paraphrase parts of it, etc and usually be ok under Fair Use Doctrine, as long as its been suitably changed or is properly cited and referenced. Its a sliding scale, the more similar it is to the original, the more risk you take on.

Images are a bit different though, because you can't exactly "paraphrase" the original pixels or rewrite them in "similar sounding" pixels. :)

I can tell you first-hand that merely "cropping" a picture down is not enough, whatever is left is still the original copyright holder's exact work. But once you start doing true editing, the question is: Is this sufficiently different from the original to be a unique work? I would say just adding words or text over the top of the image is never going to be enough, but if you start changing color gradients, removing or adding pieces, etc you are getting closer and closer to being in the safe zone.

Its still a tough call because of the fact you still have the core copyrighted graphic underneath it all, but I would err on the side of the more changes,the better. Probably usually a case by case basis, but the more changes you make 1) the less likely anyone is going to recognize it in the first place and cause a fuss, and 2) the better your defense that your version is truly a unique work if there was a fight over it.

Good Question, +rep
 
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I've got a question about how the FTC guidelines effect affiliate links and such in blogs.


FTC Guidelines. I'm getting this one A LOT. There is way too much to say about this then I could say in a post here. Maybe I will do a full guest blog post somewhere (if asked) and go into more detail there. For now, I'm going to be short and sweet. As always, don't take this as legal advice for your specific situation. This is just my opinion, as I haven't been involved in an FTC action in years, they are a colossal pain to deal with.

For those who don't know, the main FTC guidelines that affiliates in the know are freaking out about now basically state (in layman terms) that any blogger/affiliate marketer that gets "compensated" (in our world, commissions/CPA) for referring business to a merchant must disclose their relationship and the fact that they are getting paid to send the buyer over. As most of you know, 90% of web surfers don't seem to realize there is a reason behind these referrals, and the FTC wants to protect some sheep.

Main thing you need to know, notice that these are always referred to as "The FTC GUIDELINES". That they are not called "The FTC RULES" or "The FTC LAWS" should tell you something. They are not, in themselves, legally binding. Meaning, you cannot be fined for not following them as long as they are merely guidelines, IMHO. By way of analogy, in the US , our roads have "speed limit" signs, and they also have "suggested speed" signs (those yellow ones by curves, remember them?). Guess which one you can actually get ticketed for?

You cannot be susceptible to a "criminal" penalty (in this case, a fine) for breaking a "guideline". You can be subject to a penalty for breaking a law/rule/statute. As things stand, I'll bet a shiny quarter NOBODY will ever pay a "fine" for breaking these guidelines, at least not until they become codifed into official regulations.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE FTC GUIDELINES ARE A JOKE YOU CAN IGNORE!! Sure, they probably can't directly fine you for breaking their suggested "guideline" but they CAN just open an investigation under the FTC Act for "deceptive and unfair practices in commerce and misleading advertising". Trust me, those suck, you don't want to be there. The FTC "Guidelines" are: 1)an indication of where the actual "rules/law" are headed, so its good to start good-faith following them now anyways 2) are basically "safe harbor" details, if you try to follow them, you probably are not going to have to worry about the above-mentioned scenario of them going directly to a Deceptive Advertising investigation under the FTC Act. Yes, I know, they are vague as hell, but that actually helps you, people get prosecuted/punished for the strict/well-defined stuff, vague rules and guidelines tend to actually benefit the people/IMers at risk by making things cloudy.

An FTC spokesperson said (I can't find the link, PM if you have it) basically that these new guidelines are not "gotchas", they are not meant to surprise the unsuspecting webmaster and spring a trap on them, and no webmaster is going to "accidentally" run afoul of them. They are going to use this (at first) to go after the big fish that are willfully giving the finger to the FTC and are doing the most scandalous stuff possible. To use my brick-in-a-wall analogy from earlier, make at least a "good-faith" effort to demonstrate some sort of compliance with them. Whether that is a tiny 4-pt font disclaimer buried on an About Us page, or a giant flash banner at the top of all your LPs screaming "Hey Man, I'm going to get PAID if you click that link" is up to you and what your risk tolerance is.

OK, that was alot to say, and I still only barely scratched the surface. The FTC stuff probably needs its own blog post somewhere for me to get into any level of detail about the actual regs themselves. As always, the above is only my opinion. Nothing i say here should be construed as legal advice, or create an attorney/client relationship. Use at your own risk. Your mileage may vary.
 
That's a good question, though I don't have a simple answer. Under copyright law, anyone can "reference" copyrighted written material, refer to it, paraphrase parts of it, etc and usually be ok under Fair Use Doctrine, as long as its been suitably changed or is properly cited and referenced. Its a sliding scale, the more similar it is to the original, the more risk you take on.

Images are a bit different though, because you can't exactly "paraphrase" the original pixels or rewrite them in "similar sounding" pixels. :)

I can tell you first-hand that merely "cropping" a picture down is not enough, whatever is left is still the original copyright holder's exact work. But once you start doing true editing, the question is: Is this sufficiently different from the original to be a unique work? I would say just adding words or text over the top of the image is never going to be enough, but if you start changing color gradients, removing or adding pieces, etc you are getting closer and closer to being in the safe zone.

Its still a tough call because of the fact you still have the core copyrighted graphic underneath it all, but I would err on the side of the more changes,the better. Probably usually a case by case basis, but the more changes you make 1) the less likely anyone is going to recognize it in the first place and cause a fuss, and 2) the better your defense that your version is truly a unique work if there was a fight over it.

Good Question, +rep

Awesome answer. Dude you really need to help us all out with an info-product. *not an info-product hater. Those biz-op rebills are info-products probably*